Patriot Act keeping you safe from Terrorists? Not really

Discussion in 'Law and Justice System' started by Modbert, Sep 5, 2010.

  1. Modbert
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    Modbert Daydream Believer Supporting Member

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  2. hjmick
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    hjmick Gold Member

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    The Patriot Act was and continues to be about the Feds obtaining more power, nothing more, and nothing less. Power that neither party will relinquish willingly.
     
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  3. Modbert
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    Modbert Daydream Believer Supporting Member

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    Pretty much.
     
  4. Liability
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    Holy shit, what a fucking stupid thread.

    The USA PATRIOT Act, as amended, is clearly designed to protect us (to some degree) from terrorism by making it easier for our intel and law enforcement communities to share information, etc.

    The figures are dubious. Figures lie, afterall, and liars figure.

    But when used for drug shit, it is being mis-used and that's undeniable.
     
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  5. Modbert
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    Modbert Daydream Believer Supporting Member

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    Wat. Do tell.

    This isn't a stupid thread at all, the Patriot Act is clearly not being used to arrest terrorists, but rather go after drug users.
     
  6. Liability
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    No. It's a dumb thread. Here's why:

    If a law is not being used for its actual intended purpose, the remedy is to enforce it so that it does get properly circumscribed. It is not to toss out the useful, valid law.

    Furthermore, you are in no position to know whether or to what extent it is also being used FOR its intended and legitimate purpose.

    BTW: I have already conceded that it has been used for drug cases, and I agree that this is a misuse and I am opposed to that use of the Patriot Act. That said, I still maintain that the PATRIOT Act is a terrific and valid tool for use against the evil scumbag terrorist shitheads that seek to harm us. But yes, even so, our vigilance is required to make sure its use is limited to that purpose and not abused to work on mere criminal investigations or prosecutions.
     
  7. Modbert
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    Modbert Daydream Believer Supporting Member

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    Not sure if you understand it was used for Terrorism (it's purpose) less than a half of a percent in 2009. Try to imagine how small that is for a moment. When we have the raw numbers, we can in fact know the extent it is used for.

    You seem to not also realize that all of this has already happens and continues to happen. It doesn't matter how much vigilance we have, us citizens have absolutely no power with this outside of having our representatives and senators repeal this bill. Considering both parties have no intention of giving up this power anytime soon, it should give you a good idea of how that will play out.
     
  8. Liability
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    Your figures are bullshit.

    The reality is that you have absolutely ZERO idea of how often the PATRIOT Act was put to proper use -- but not revealed to the public out of valid concern that dissemination of such information would be akin to sharing military intel with the enemy.

    since I have repeatedly conceded that the laws has also been used invalidly, your concern that I have seem not to realize that it has been an abused tool is baseless. You speak a lot of gibberish.

    In any event, the remedy is to do what we must to make sure that it is not used for mere criminal law enforcement purposes. ANY valid use MUST have the objective of anti-terrorism.

    How easy would it be for a Congress-critter to draft an amendment to the law that would prohibit the Courts from permitting the USE of such PATRIOT Act obtained information in a mere criminal case absent proof that the Act was used within permissible bounds?

    If some useful information comes about as a result of a valid use of the PATRIOT Act, then the derivative use of that information might be (possibly) useful in a criminal prosecution. But otherwise, take the "profit" out of it for criminal justice purposes.
     
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  9. Liability
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    By the way, although I decline to stake this out as a position (since I do not have enough information to make it a justification for the most part), it is probably still worth noting that terrorists and terrorist cells require funding. They have reason to keep the source of such funding secret, of course. So, how can they then go about raising funds for their nefarious fucking purposes? Hm. Could the illegal dealing of drugs possibly be implicated?

    So, it is possible that in any number of cases, the investigators trying to root out terrorists and terror cells might be left looking into the connections to and with drug dealing. And if that connection is genuine, then using the PATRIOT Act on the drug dealing organizations might very well satisfy the nexus to terrorism requirement.
     
  10. MikeK
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    MikeK Gold Member

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    And this is my primary complaint against Obama and why I hope the DNC puts up an alternate candidate.
     

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