Patriot Act Against a 16 Year Old

[jillian]

I thought Obama and the liberals were against the Patriot Act????? Why is this still in effect?

You are aware, aren't you, genius, that it would take either another act of Congress or a determination by the Supreme Court that it's unconstitutional to get rid of it?

Damn, what a moron you are....

but go ahead, trash every interesting conversation that you touch...

you guys don't even want to stop torturing people. now you're worried about individual rights?

you crack me up.

Who's in charge of Congress?

i know actual analysis is beyond your capabilities, but try to follow along.

 

[auditor0007]

Yeah... those teenagers could not possibly do anything... I mean.. those nice teens we ran into in Somalia... oh... wait...

Besides... what mom is not going to say "my son could NEVER do something like that"?... and because of the gag order, you are only getting 1 side of the story... and that side is being sensationalized by the typical media move

So.... yes, teens can commit atrocious things and they can hide them and it can be without the parent's knowledge... and we don't have all the details here... so I would not go instantly bashing the 'Patriot Act' or our system of law enforcement that is trying to protect us from terrorism, foreign and domestic

I tend to agree. However, they may have made a huge mistake here. Time will tell. At the same time, the point that there should be some system of checks and balances makes sense. Also, I thought that it had been ruled by the Supreme Court that US citizens had to be given due process, as was the case with John Walker Lindh. This will be an interesting case to follow.

 

[Care4all]

1.... I am not some inherent Bush defender.... but the general way these things normally go is Bush and his administration created the Patriot act and the lefties have been screaming about it inherently... and I did not put the blame for anything in this situation on Bush... simply pointed out that it is indeed easy for a far lefty to inherently hate anything to do with a Bush policy

2.... We do not have all the details.... and in general I give a bit of leeway and faith in the justice system over media sensationalized, one-sided hype

Could we have a situation here?? Yep... but I don't go instantly damning the justice system when all the info is not available

Ok Dave, that was pretty well said, and I can understand where you were coming from, and you are right, that we should wait for the details, but for how long? Could they hold these details back forever? When does it become too long to hold a minor usa citizen prisoner, without charge? you didn't even want your kid to be able to get the Morning After Pill without YOU being FULLY INFORMED, yet you would allow the government to HOLD your own child, indefinately, without being areigned?

I find that HARD to believe....?

Care

 

[DiamondDave]

1.... I am not some inherent Bush defender.... but the general way these things normally go is Bush and his administration created the Patriot act and the lefties have been screaming about it inherently... and I did not put the blame for anything in this situation on Bush... simply pointed out that it is indeed easy for a far lefty to inherently hate anything to do with a Bush policy

2.... We do not have all the details.... and in general I give a bit of leeway and faith in the justice system over media sensationalized, one-sided hype

Could we have a situation here?? Yep... but I don't go instantly damning the justice system when all the info is not available

Ok Dave, that was pretty well said, and I can understand where you were coming from, and you are right, that we should wait for the details, but for how long? Could they hold these details back forever? When does it become too long to hold a minor usa prisoner, without charge? you didn't even want your kid to be able to get the Morning After Pill without YOU being FULLY INFORMED, yet you would allow the government to HOLD your own child, indefinately, without being areigned?

I find that HARD to believe....?

Care

1) My kid's health and decisions about my kid, are not inherently the same as holding a terror suspect
2) Would i want any and all info as a parent if I were in that situation? Would I complain? Yep... but that is a parent reaction and not inherently a logical reaction...
3) How long is too long?? I don't know... But mainly because, as stated, we don't know the full details here
4) If, as a US citizen (not like the alien enemy combatants), it is found out that there is/was indeed concern about violation of civil rights and ABUSE of the Patriot Act, I think it does need to be looked into and prosecuted... But I do not believe the Patriot Act in itself is illegal... and as stated I tend to want to know more than 1 side before I would draw judgement...

Now if it were just being said that this is suspicious or if it were a call for more information from the other side in an attempt to understand the situation more... fine... but not just an instant condemnation of the justice system and the Patriot Act

 

[auditor0007]

One of the problems, and the downside of the Patriot Act is that those who approve it's use are not the ones actually overseeing those who can and will put it into action. So if we have a couple of overzeaolous agents out there, they can pretty much do anything they want with little oversight. And that is where it becomes a problem. Again, I'm not for dumping the Patriot Act, but this does show a real need to bring about better oversight and some system of checks an balances when it comes to its use.

 

[DiamondDave]

One of the problems, and the downside of the Patriot Act is that those who approve it's use are not the ones actually overseeing those who can and will put it into action. So if we have a couple of overzeaolous agents out there, they can pretty much do anything they want with little oversight. And that is where it becomes a problem. Again, I'm not for dumping the Patriot Act, but this does show a real need to bring about better oversight and some system of checks an balances when it comes to its use.

Now THAT I can accept and understand.. a call for different oversight while keeping the Patriot Act....

 

[Care4all]

1.... I am not some inherent Bush defender.... but the general way these things normally go is Bush and his administration created the Patriot act and the lefties have been screaming about it inherently... and I did not put the blame for anything in this situation on Bush... simply pointed out that it is indeed easy for a far lefty to inherently hate anything to do with a Bush policy

2.... We do not have all the details.... and in general I give a bit of leeway and faith in the justice system over media sensationalized, one-sided hype

Could we have a situation here?? Yep... but I don't go instantly damning the justice system when all the info is not available

Ok Dave, that was pretty well said, and I can understand where you were coming from, and you are right, that we should wait for the details, but for how long? Could they hold these details back forever? When does it become too long to hold a minor usa prisoner, without charge? you didn't even want your kid to be able to get the Morning After Pill without YOU being FULLY INFORMED, yet you would allow the government to HOLD your own child, indefinately, without being areigned?

I find that HARD to believe....?

Care

1) My kid's health and decisions about my kid, are not inherently the same as holding a terror suspect
2) Would i want any and all info as a parent if I were in that situation? Would I complain? Yep... but that is a parent reaction and not inherently a logical reaction...
3) How long is too long?? I don't know... But mainly because, as stated, we don't know the full details here
4) If, as a US citizen (not like the alien enemy combatants), it is found out that there is/was indeed concern about violation of civil rights and ABUSE of the Patriot Act, I think it does need to be looked into and prosecuted... But I do not believe the Patriot Act in itself is illegal... and as stated I tend to want to know more than 1 side before I would draw judgement...

Now if it were just being said that this is suspicious or if it were a call for more information from the other side in an attempt to understand the situation more... fine... but not just an instant condemnation of the justice system and the Patriot Act

Thanks Dave for the decent conversation, and I can understand your position and I probably did jump the gun a little and should have just registered my complaint as suspicions....of being unconstitutional.

Care

 

[editec]

It IS possible, I suppose, that this foolish young man made bomb threats, eh?

Do bear in mind folks, that MOST of the Patriot act wasn't increasin the government's power to invade your privacy and arrest you on specious charges.

Most of that power the government granted itself was already in place thanks to the WAR on DRUGS.

 

[Newby]

You are aware, aren't you, genius, that it would take either another act of Congress or a determination by the Supreme Court that it's unconstitutional to get rid of it?

Damn, what a moron you are....

but go ahead, trash every interesting conversation that you touch...

you guys don't even want to stop torturing people. now you're worried about individual rights?

you crack me up.

Who's in charge of Congress?

i know actual analysis is beyond your capabilities, but try to follow along.

Looks to me like all you're good at is hurling insults and can never back up your positions. Immaturity also seems to be a big issue with you. So, Jilly, why don't you explain why your democratic Congress that has been in power going on three years now hasn't rescinded the Patriot Act since you yourself have pointed out that it is their duty to do so?

 

[Newby]

1.... I am not some inherent Bush defender.... but the general way these things normally go is Bush and his administration created the Patriot act and the lefties have been screaming about it inherently... and I did not put the blame for anything in this situation on Bush... simply pointed out that it is indeed easy for a far lefty to inherently hate anything to do with a Bush policy

2.... We do not have all the details.... and in general I give a bit of leeway and faith in the justice system over media sensationalized, one-sided hype

Could we have a situation here?? Yep... but I don't go instantly damning the justice system when all the info is not available

Ok Dave, that was pretty well said, and I can understand where you were coming from, and you are right, that we should wait for the details, but for how long? Could they hold these details back forever? When does it become too long to hold a minor usa prisoner, without charge? you didn't even want your kid to be able to get the Morning After Pill without YOU being FULLY INFORMED, yet you would allow the government to HOLD your own child, indefinately, without being areigned?

I find that HARD to believe....?

Care

1) My kid's health and decisions about my kid, are not inherently the same as holding a terror suspect
2) Would i want any and all info as a parent if I were in that situation? Would I complain? Yep... but that is a parent reaction and not inherently a logical reaction...
3) How long is too long?? I don't know... But mainly because, as stated, we don't know the full details here
4) If, as a US citizen (not like the alien enemy combatants), it is found out that there is/was indeed concern about violation of civil rights and ABUSE of the Patriot Act, I think it does need to be looked into and prosecuted... But I do not believe the Patriot Act in itself is illegal... and as stated I tend to want to know more than 1 side before I would draw judgement...

Now if it were just being said that this is suspicious or if it were a call for more information from the other side in an attempt to understand the situation more... fine... but not just an instant condemnation of the justice system and the Patriot Act

Well said.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

1.... I am not some inherent Bush defender.... but the general way these things normally go is Bush and his administration created the Patriot act and the lefties have been screaming about it inherently... and I did not put the blame for anything in this situation on Bush... simply pointed out that it is indeed easy for a far lefty to inherently hate anything to do with a Bush policy

2.... We do not have all the details.... and in general I give a bit of leeway and faith in the justice system over media sensationalized, one-sided hype

Could we have a situation here?? Yep... but I don't go instantly damning the justice system when all the info is not available

Well the question is why isn't all the information available? What happened to the boy's constitutional rights, and what happened to innocent until proven guilty? There was never a situation where our rights are to be taken away by the government, but that's what's happening here.

 

[jillian]

Well the question is why isn't all the information available? What happened to the boy's constitutional rights, and what happened to innocent until proven guilty? There was never a situation where our rights are to be taken away by the government, but that's what's happening here.

It's what's being alleged by his family and attorney. Is it true? Maybe. But we need more information.

And yes, the patriot act sucks....

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Well the question is why isn't all the information available? What happened to the boy's constitutional rights, and what happened to innocent until proven guilty? There was never a situation where our rights are to be taken away by the government, but that's what's happening here.

It's what's being alleged by his family and attorney. Is it true? Maybe. But we need more information.

And yes, the patriot act sucks....

I'd say their word holds a little more weight than the silence of an institution that is essentially treating a 16 year old boy as an enemy combatant.

 

[jillian]

Well the question is why isn't all the information available? What happened to the boy's constitutional rights, and what happened to innocent until proven guilty? There was never a situation where our rights are to be taken away by the government, but that's what's happening here.

It's what's being alleged by his family and attorney. Is it true? Maybe. But we need more information.

And yes, the patriot act sucks....

I'd say their word holds a little more weight than the silence of an institution that is essentially treating a 16 year old boy as an enemy combatant.

I don't think anyone should be designated an "enemy combatant".

But if you read the article, there is a gag order and the feds can't comment.

I'm not comfortable with hearing only one side... especially from people who have an agenda.

And why, might I ask, does it matter how many flags mommy has in her home? or that SHE hates guns?

Sorry... there's zero info in the article other than the kid is being held.

Is it without charges?

Where did it say he was designated an enemy combatant? That's a conclusion the article certainly wants you to draw, but it isn't clear on that.

I don't like propaganda pieces... even if they make a point I agree with.

MORE INFO!!!

 

[DiamondDave]

Well the question is why isn't all the information available? What happened to the boy's constitutional rights, and what happened to innocent until proven guilty? There was never a situation where our rights are to be taken away by the government, but that's what's happening here.

It's what's being alleged by his family and attorney. Is it true? Maybe. But we need more information.

And yes, the patriot act sucks....

I'd say their word holds a little more weight than the silence of an institution that is essentially treating a 16 year old boy as an enemy combatant.

No.. they don't

 

[jgbkab]

I don't think we need to worry about the media, they are gagged already. The government is becoming a monster, and apathetic Americans are letting it happen. The current president is a perfect example of that. I personally don't believe he is even an American. I believe he is an implant, and the media has been stopped from addressing it. I believe we have a government that CANNOT be trusted. I believe there will be a revolution, and it will be carried out by our true American Military. I believe that will be the right thing.

I believe the homeland Security, Supreme court, and office of the President of the United States are all in the process of leading this nation into destruction, unless Apathetic Americans stand up and take the country back.

I am an American true and served in the Military. My Dad is an American WW II hero, and My Brother served in he Marines. We love this country, and though my Dad and Brother are now gone, I will stand on their behalf.

With that said, I believe I have to stand up, press forward, and leave my steps in the hands of God. I believe God is the answer, and the only answer. I don't believe this president or his administration recognize God at all. I believe Obama is Muslim, and serving another god, if he serves any god at all.

In his first 100 days he has begun what is wrecking this nation, and he has no apologies to offer, nor any desire to try to correct his stupidity.

He apologized to the world for the arrogance of the American people. He thanked the Muslims for their great contribution to America, and He stated outright that America is not a Christian nation. I really believe he is from another country so he can be as negative as he wants to about America, and it will serve him well.

I will stand for America, the one that My Dad fought for. I sill hold the flag high, and lift God to his rightful place over this nation.

I don't believe that you using the word "believe" will not throw up red flags of this post. I don't know what the government keeps track of or what they read but I believe that if they have a read of your post, it will draw some attention to you.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It's what's being alleged by his family and attorney. Is it true? Maybe. But we need more information.

And yes, the patriot act sucks....

I'd say their word holds a little more weight than the silence of an institution that is essentially treating a 16 year old boy as an enemy combatant.

I don't think anyone should be designated an "enemy combatant".

But if you read the article, there is a gag order and the feds can't comment.

I'm not comfortable with hearing only one side... especially from people who have an agenda.

And why, might I ask, does it matter how many flags mommy has in her home? or that SHE hates guns?

Sorry... there's zero info in the article other than the kid is being held.

Is it without charges?

Where did it say he was designated an enemy combatant? That's a conclusion the article certainly wants you to draw, but it isn't clear on that.

I don't like propaganda pieces... even if they make a point I agree with.

MORE INFO!!!

I agree no one should be designated an enemy combatant, and I said he was essentially designated an enemy combatant.

As to not having enough information, of course we need more information. We need to know why this kid is being denied his rights. Whether he made the bomb threats or not he still has rights and they are clearly being violated.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It's what's being alleged by his family and attorney. Is it true? Maybe. But we need more information.

And yes, the patriot act sucks....

I'd say their word holds a little more weight than the silence of an institution that is essentially treating a 16 year old boy as an enemy combatant.

No.. they don't

I'm sorry I don't put as much faith as you do in an institution that denies a person their constitutional rights.

 

[DiamondDave]

I'd say their word holds a little more weight than the silence of an institution that is essentially treating a 16 year old boy as an enemy combatant.

No.. they don't

I'm sorry I don't put as much faith as you do in an institution that denies a person their constitutional rights.

Sorry.. I don't instantly deny the justice system.. and I don't instantly give cred to a mother about her son, or a lawyer paid to defend him

Their word holds no more inherent weight than that of the justice system

 

[Smartt33]

I don't think we need to worry about the media, they are gagged already. The government is becoming a monster, and apathetic Americans are letting it happen. The current president is a perfect example of that. I personally don't believe he is even an American. I believe he is an implant, and the media has been stopped from addressing it. I believe we have a government that CANNOT be trusted. I believe there will be a revolution, and it will be carried out by our true American Military. I believe that will be the right thing.

I believe the homeland Security, Supreme court, and office of the President of the United States are all in the process of leading this nation into destruction, unless Apathetic Americans stand up and take the country back.

I am an American true and served in the Military. My Dad is an American WW II hero, and My Brother served in he Marines. We love this country, and though my Dad and Brother are now gone, I will stand on their behalf.

With that said, I believe I have to stand up, press forward, and leave my steps in the hands of God. I believe God is the answer, and the only answer. I don't believe this president or his administration recognize God at all. I believe Obama is Muslim, and serving another god, if he serves any god at all.

In his first 100 days he has begun what is wrecking this nation, and he has no apologies to offer, nor any desire to try to correct his stupidity.

He apologized to the world for the arrogance of the American people. He thanked the Muslims for their great contribution to America, and He stated outright that America is not a Christian nation. I really believe he is from another country so he can be as negative as he wants to about America, and it will serve him well.

I will stand for America, the one that My Dad fought for. I sill hold the flag high, and lift God to his rightful place over this nation.

I don't believe that you using the word "believe" will not throw up red flags of this post. I don't know what the government keeps track of or what they read but I believe that if they have a read of your post, it will draw some attention to you.

I suppose they might be looking, after, I am labelled as a potential terrorist in a few categories. I am a Veteran, I am a Pro-lifer, and I am against illegal aliens being given all the freedoms and gifts that America is giving them. I am for the right to have a weapon for protection in America. I am totally apposed to most of what Obama does.

I suppose that makes me a target.

I am also a True American. I believe in this country. I believe we are the greatest nation in the world, free in so many ways. At least until the last presidential election.

I'll be a target, but around me are many others who are real terrorists. They are also identified, but they are not any longer allowed to be called terrorists. They are disruptors. They are actually being watched and allowed to do their dirty work right here in this city. I don't know who or where they are, but I do know that they are specifically identified. I am, however, far more dangerous than they are according to the Homeland Security.

I believe God is in charge, and America is in the hands of His mighty judgment. I am on His side, and that is the sinning side. In Him I live, and in Him I will walk through whatever He allows. While I love the man, Obama, I hate what I believe he obviously stands for.