Pat Buchanan wants pain meds withheld from would be bomber

[uscitizen]

People are amazing. Several support not giving the latest stupid bomber humanitarian treatment, but think me satan for not feeling sorry for contractors getting blown up in Afganistan.

don't get me wrong I think the bomber should die for his actions, even though he killed no one.
But he should be treated humanely till he be found legally guilty and killed.

It is the American way folks.

 

[nodoginnafight]

You do realize that death sentences are carried out MUCH LESS FREQUENTLY in military tribunals than they are in civilian courts.

Maybe in TEXAS.

But even if you allow for sentences of 'life in prison'.. it's still a damn sight cheaper and less emotionally exhausting when we don't have to put up with the non-stop appeals and insane propaganda.

believe it or not a life sentence is also cheaper than a death sentence. I know it seems counterintuitive - but that's what studies have shown. But in Texas, they are starting to try to make it cheaper by pealing away some of the opportunities for appeal.

 

[nodoginnafight]

People are amazing. Several support not giving the latest stupid bomber humanitarian treatment, but think me satan for not feeling sorry for contractors getting blown up in Afganistan.

don't get me wrong I think the bomber should die for his actions, even though he killed no one.
But he should be treated humanely till he if found legally guilty and killed.

It is the American way folks.

I admire your more noble sentiments - and I share them. But I must confess, I'm also in favor of getting every ounce of potentially useful information we can out of this guy at this point. I think treating him and his family more humanely is more likely to achieve that.

So I believe there is a good moral argument (that you make) and a good practical argument that I hope to make.

 

[JenyEliza]

I would like to see this in context

I am not for withholding pain meds against an injured person... I am just for getting him on trial ASAP, obtaining the conviction, and putting him out of his misery permanently

Well, here's the problem with pumping him up with pain meds.

We can't put him on trial while he's on mind-altering substances like morphine, dilaudid, avenza, demerol, percocet, etc etc.

He (or his lovely criminal lawyer, per Barry's view this is a criminal mater, not an act of war) will claim the medications make him unfit to understand the charges against him, unable to defend himself and unfit to stand trial.

Hence, I say we withhold pain meds, but provide other palliative relief as necessary (ie, applying silvadene cream, topical viscous lidocaine, as well as wound debridement, etc).

Lidocaine is a local anesthetic (numbing medication). It works by blocking nerve signals in your body.

Lidocaine viscous is used to treat sores inside the mouth, during dental procedures to numb the gums, and to numb the skin for a medical procedure (such as getting stitches).

Lidocaine viscous may also be used for other purposes not listed in this medication guide.

This way the man is clear-headed and free to defend himself.

And we're not monsters.

Are you under the impression that there is going to be a trial in a couple of days or something????????

I think you fail to understand just how serious this man's injuries actually are and how long his medical treatment will last.

2nd and 3rd degree burns that destroy organs (such as his Winky) are gaping open wounds that must be treated for infection aggressively, due to the very high risk of infections, especially due to the nature of the treatment itself.

For instance, his Winky was blown off. Just how do you think the man pees now? Yes, that's right. He has a catheter. Probably will the rest of his life--and that life might be shortened by many, many years simply because of the *catheter* itself due to massive infection introduced BY the catheter. Inserting and removing catheters on a daily basis opens a person up to urethral, bladder and kidney infections.

Those are SERIOUS infections that can kill a burn patient.

Nevermind the raging 3rd degree burns surrounding that catheter, burns which could also become infected and kill him.

The man is quite suseptible to massive total body infection--something called "Sepsis"--which is when an infection in your body travels to your blood stream.

Sepsis is DEADLY.

Once a person in his condition is "Septic", there's really not a hell of a lot they can do. Except pray hard and use whatever medications left in the arsenal that might work. There are some *very strong* antibiotics they can try to knock back the infections, but many bacteria are becoming quite resistant to even to the last line of defense antibiotics. (for instance MRSA infections).

With 3rd degree burns, a missing open oozing Winky, daily catheterization, there are just too many routes for bacteria to enter his body, attack, take over and kill him.

No, even if he has a trial 3 years from now, he will still require quite a bit of ongoing medical care which would indicate the need for some type of opiod pain relief.

If he survives his wounds, he's gonna be in pain pretty much the rest of his life.

I'm just against offering him all but the most basic palliative care, topical antesthetic, antibiotics, etc.

But NO opiods. Not for this fella. He blew that opportunity when he tried to slaughter 300+ American citizens on American soil.

 

[Immanuel]

The "shoe bomber" Reid was tried in court and is now in a maximum security prison, from which no one has ever escaped. The Cons, including Ashcroft, praised the carrying out of his trial at the time. Of course, that was under Bush Jr.
>
Bush Waited Six Days To Discuss Shoe Bomber With No GOP Complaints

Bush Waited Six Days To Discuss Shoe Bomber With No GOP Complaints

Personally, I wouldn't give a crap if Barack Obama NEVER addressed the "Underwear Bomber" incident. It would suit me just fine if he STAYED on vacation. He's just gonna fuck it up anyhow. He's more useful to the nation while he's playing with his golf clubs in Hawaii.

I wonder if President Obama won't invite this terrorist and the guy who tackled him on the plane over to the White House for a beer.

Immie

 

[Murf76]

believe it or not a life sentence is also cheaper than a death sentence.

That just means they ain't doin' it right.

 

[Polk]

We tried those people and got the USS COle, Khobar Towers and 9/11. Or did you forget those facts?
These aren't criminal actions, they are acts of war. And the sooner Obama realizes that Bush was right and his approach was correct the safer we will all be. It is no accident these little tests are going on under Obama, whom the Muslim world perceives as weak and vacillating.
And the sooner you quit your enthrallment with Obama's large Negro penis and see the reality of who and what he is the more sense you will make on these boards.

Except that Bush's approach wasn't correct and we're not safer. AQ has not stopped trying to take the homeland and they've killed plenty of people in Afghanistan.

I would offer the fact that Obama's approach has not worked either. If it had this little pimple of a terrorist wouldn't have done what he did a few days ago.
I offer that NOBODY's approach is going to make these guys happy. I don't care if you put mohamad himself in office as our president, they will still hate us.
It's time to cease and desist the partisan stupidity. The fact is that despite their best efforts, neither bush or obama has stopped AQ. Nothing any president of ours does will satisfy them. To think otherwise is foolish and dangerous thinking. It is assigning american values and morals to a group that has their own set of values and morals. We are not going to make them 'happy', they are never going to quit unless we kill them all.
The partisan stupidity is simply that, partisan stupidity. Wishing that AQ will be appeased and stop attacking us is dumb, ain't never going to happen and it isn't Obama's fault, it wasn't Bushes fault, and it wasn't Clinton's fault.
Grow up.

I'm not blaming Bush for it. I'm pointing out that it's asinine to say his policies made things better. My take is this. We will undoubtedly be hit again. Politicians can claim they're going to stop AQ dead in it's tracks, chase it to the gates of hell, and such, but they're powerless at the end of the day. There are measures we can and should take to reduce the probability of a hit. However, when you have a group of people willing to kill themselves to hit you, they're going to be successful. We have to be perfect, they only need to not be totally incompetent.