Pastor arrested for holding home Bible study

[Big Fitz]

Pastor arrested for holding home Bible study



Other links with different perspectives are welcome.

Oh look. Separation of Sanity and State.

So much for the First Amendment.

 

[MeBelle]

Same but different

Home: No place for Bible study

Different cause it's in Cali!

 

[hortysir]

Same but different

Home: No place for Bible study

Different cause it's in Cali!

What struck me, back when I first discussed that story, was the seemingly leading questions by the code enforcement officer.

It reads like they took bigger issue with the religious aspects of the case than the zoning issue.
*shrug*

 

[Dr Grump]

The OP title is misleading...

 

[MeBelle]

What if a woman has a quilting circle at her home every weekend?

The city should shut that down unless she obtains a commercial and public use permit?

If she builds a 2,000 square foot building to do it in and erects a sign advertising it then yeah, probably.

I'm surprised the guy doesn't want to declare himself a church and get the tax benefits.

There was a sign advertising it?

There is a sign, but I can't tell what it says. Maybe he is selling strawberries.
There is a cross off the roadside, by the sign, but is it on his private property?

Adding an addition to one's home, whether it be attached or not, for any reason, with all the permits in order should not be giving anyone fits.

Just because visitors come to my home three times a week and we discuss the Bible...if that’s their definition of a church then so be it,’ he said.
'At what point does the government have the right to state that you cannot have family and friends over at your home three times a week?' Salman asked.
A January 4, 2010, ruling made it clear that the Salmans are not prohibited from running a church or hosting worship services on their property, but if they do so, they must be in compliance with fire and zoning codes.

^^^Someone missed this part.^^^^*

BTW, there is a ball field close to the property and every weekend the streets are clogged with cars parked on the side of the road.




*Not you , sock...

 

[MeBelle]

Same but different

Home: No place for Bible study

Different cause it's in Cali!

What struck me, back when I first discussed that story, was the seemingly leading questions by the code enforcement officer.

It reads like they took bigger issue with the religious aspects of the case than the zoning issue.
*shrug*

I agree...quit shrugging...

 

[MeBelle]

After two years of relative calm, the feud between the City of Phoenix and the Salmans escalated when they erected a 2,000 square foot building in their backyard. Mr Salman said he applied for and was granted all the appropriate permits and the building has passed a city inspection.

‘At that point we took our Bible study from our living room – and we moved it into that building,’ he said. ‘We started worshiping in that building every weekend.’

However, Miss Hill, the chief assistant city prosecutor, said Salman has ‘mischaracterized the facts’ of the permit. She said that he was given a permit to convert a garage into a game room, not a church or anything else for that matter.

Father of six faces 60 days behind bars for hosting Bible study in his OWN home against city rules | Mail Online

Maybe he doesn't know that lying is a sin.

Arrest is out of line, a citation by Code Enforcement is an appropriate action. He wasn't arrested for holding a Bible study, he was arrested for repeated violations of city fire codes. Still, too harsh a remedy. Citation, hearing, possible lien, handles this type of non compliance, at least in Florida.

So if you have a party in your house you must get a special permit or get cited for violating fire codes?

 

[hortysir]

Different cause it's in Cali!

What struck me, back when I first discussed that story, was the seemingly leading questions by the code enforcement officer.

It reads like they took bigger issue with the religious aspects of the case than the zoning issue.
*shrug*

I agree...quit shrugging...

it's a nervous tic I get around nice ladies

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Pastor arrested for holding home Bible study



Other links with different perspectives are welcome.

In Employment Division v. Smith (1990), the Court held as Constitutional jurisdictions’ regulatory policies which might conflict with religious activity:

Justice Antonin Scalia, writing for the majority, observed that the Court has never held that an individual's religious beliefs excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law prohibiting conduct that government is free to regulate. Allowing exceptions to every state law or regulation affecting religion "would open the prospect of constitutionally required exemptions from civic obligations of almost every conceivable kind." Scalia cited as examples compulsory military service, payment of taxes, vaccination requirements, and child-neglect laws.

Employment Division v. Smith | The Oyez Project at IIT Chicago-Kent College of Law

Consequently there is no violation of religious expression.

And the thread title is indeed both misleading and inaccurate.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

From the OP link:
"It came down to zoning and proper permitting. Anytime you are holding a gathering of people continuously as he does, we have concerns about people being able to exit the facility properly in case there is a fire."

Should religion be exempt from zoning and other laws?
Seems like that would be against the constitution.

The constitution discusses zoning laws?

 

[Amelia]

Pastor arrested for holding home Bible study



Other links with different perspectives are welcome.

In Employment Division v. Smith (1990), the Court held as Constitutional jurisdictions’ regulatory policies which might conflict with religious activity:

Justice Antonin Scalia, writing for the majority, observed that the Court has never held that an individual's religious beliefs excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law prohibiting conduct that government is free to regulate. Allowing exceptions to every state law or regulation affecting religion "would open the prospect of constitutionally required exemptions from civic obligations of almost every conceivable kind." Scalia cited as examples compulsory military service, payment of taxes, vaccination requirements, and child-neglect laws.

Employment Division v. Smith | The Oyez Project at IIT Chicago-Kent College of Law

Consequently there is no violation of religious expression.

And the thread title is indeed both misleading and inaccurate.

A. The thread title is the title of an article, with the OP being a link to the article.

B. Why does a noncommercial, private group meeting on private land need a commercial public use permit?

C. Is the noncompliance in the two examples in this thread with the actual law or with a misapplication of the law for dubious purposes?

D. I still don't believe that a quilting circle or bridge club or weekly sports night would be sanctioned in the way the Bible study groups were. If my suspicion is correct, then that is discrimination against religious expression.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I know lots of libs, and pretty much that's how they feel. I can be forgiven for assuming mainstream liberal intentions.

Oh, bull shit. I know lots of libs and probably more cons, and I can tell you how most of them feel. The libs, while perhaps not being religious themselves, would not deny religion to others. You see, that is one of the main differences between most libs and most cons. Liberals seem to be generally much more tolerant of other's viewpoints than do cons. Cons seem to be generally less tolerant of other's viewpoints - much less tolerant.

To state it succintly: Libs: I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to my death your right to say it. Cons: If I don't like it, you can't have it.

You do know, don't you, that your side reports people to the government for criticizing Obama, right?

I reported myself for a while, but no one ever came by to see me. I think the whole thing is a scam.

 

[Againsheila]

Pastor arrested for holding home Bible study



Other links with different perspectives are welcome.

Not surprised, you won't find this on the net, because it happened on the net, but some students at the UW were arrested for having a Bible study in their dorm. They were released, with apologies but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Pastor arrested for holding home Bible study



Other links with different perspectives are welcome.

In Employment Division v. Smith (1990), the Court held as Constitutional jurisdictions’ regulatory policies which might conflict with religious activity:

Justice Antonin Scalia, writing for the majority, observed that the Court has never held that an individual's religious beliefs excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law prohibiting conduct that government is free to regulate. Allowing exceptions to every state law or regulation affecting religion "would open the prospect of constitutionally required exemptions from civic obligations of almost every conceivable kind." Scalia cited as examples compulsory military service, payment of taxes, vaccination requirements, and child-neglect laws.

Employment Division v. Smith | The Oyez Project at IIT Chicago-Kent College of Law

Consequently there is no violation of religious expression.

And the thread title is indeed both misleading and inaccurate.

As applied v as written, look it up.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Other links with different perspectives are welcome.

Don't even have to look.

This has to do with zoning and planning laws that regulate the number of folks in a private residence.

Amelia, how many people attended, how many vehicles were on the lost, and so forth.

 

[Amelia]

Other links with different perspectives are welcome.

Don't even have to look.

This has to do with zoning and planning laws that regulate the number of folks in a private residence.

Amelia, how many people attended, how many vehicles were on the lost, and so forth.

Still waiting to hear why a noncommercial private group on private land would need to meet commercial public use requirements.

Can you say with a straight face that you believe that a quilting circle or bridge club would be held to the same requirements?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Amelia, P & Z are legitimate functions of government to protect the welfare of citizens.

Once again, how many people, how many autos?

 

[Againsheila]

If she builds a 2,000 square foot building to do it in and erects a sign advertising it then yeah, probably.

I'm surprised the guy doesn't want to declare himself a church and get the tax benefits.

There was a sign advertising it?

A huge cross erected by the street.

So if I put a cross in my front yard, I can expect 20-30 people to show up just out of the blue once a week for a Bible study?

 

[Againsheila]

15-20 people, Thanksgiving around here has been known to have more than that. My neighbors have a Bible study every Wed with more than 20 people. Guess I should call the cops huh?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Amelia, P & Z are legitimate functions of government to protect the welfare of citizens.

Once again, how many people, how many autos?

Since when?