Partial Birth Abortion Ban

[Moi]

Originally posted by Keebs
I can tell you what I HAVEN'T done: murdered any children.

Children? You mean like toddlers? Me either. Can a fetus live outside of the mothers womb? Then how can it be a child. SHOW ME THE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE that a fetus, is infact, a child.

Do you support the death penelty? Because if you do, you're killing ADULTS. When you do not support abortion laws, you are killing women. But I guess that doesn't matter to you. As long as the fetus survives.

Do you support the NRA? Guns kill people.

Oh my, again I was going to let this pass but couldn't. Guns don't kill people, the people who pull the trigger are the killers. And just because a fetus cannot live outside the womb doesn't mean it's not a person. How idiotic an example...a one day old infant can't survive sitting on the street corner either but no one's denying that self-sufficiency isn't the only measure of life. And, I'm sorry, but again, most of us on this board are not debating that abortion in cases of rape (where the woman has no say in the matter of getting pregnant) nor when the woman's life is in danger should not be exceptions to the abortion ban so please stop acting like the life of the woman is in jeopardy in every case; it's simply not.

 

[Keebs]

Ohhh I love it when people are too lazy to read my entire post.

Oh, where to begin. First of all if you cannot see any difference between the death of a person who has been convicted of a capital crime dying and the death of a fetus, you need course on responsibility. The person on death row is responsible for his own fate; a fetus didn't do anything to deserve death.

As I stated before, I am for the death penelty. You can't see the difference between a fetus and a child. You need a course on biology. If the fetus will kill the mother, yes I'd see how it had done something to deserve death.

You want to see my compassion: I donated over $40,000 dollars last year to other people, how much did you donate? I built a habitat for humanity house, did you? My company, of which I was a partner (and thus had a say), built over 2,000 units of affordable housing around the country. Did yours? The non-profit organization that I am a governor of (again, with decision making ability) donated over $15,000 to various compassionate causes. I have voted according to my conscience and shown others compassion through charitable works.

I don't have 40,000 dollars to give, but yes, I give what I can. I helped work on a house for habitat for humanity also. I volenteer for Meals On Wheels. And I took care of my grandmother who had alshimers, instead of going to college.

Now, its established that we both do good things in our life. Feel better?

You are going to compare the death penalty to abortion? LOL What has the unborn child done to deserve the death penalty?

Read above.

There have been countless stories of women that were killed/murdered... where the child had to be extracted prematurely. The child ends up surviving and leads a natural life. And guess what, the time of the emergency extraction was about the same time a partial term abortion would take place. Shoot, there have been stories of children surviving after only being in the womb for 5-6 months.

Stories? Like...Bible stories? Like.. a story anyone can make up on the spot? PROOOOF people?? Show me the proof LOL.. Is that so hard?

And I do support the NRA, and the guns don't kill people. If there were no people around, would the guns still be killing? It's the people behind the killings.

Now, keep in mind. I support the NRA. WHat do guns do, other than kill things? Look pretty? What does a knife do other than kill people? It is used to cut stake, open mail. There are other productive uses for it. So, don't tell me its ok to kill everything but a damn fetus.

Poor 'ol me, I guess I'm a dumbass!

So, if you will not allow me to abort the fetus. The child becomes gay. You wont let him have any rights? LOL Helllloo? That makes sense to who?

 

[Keebs]

Oh my, again I was going to let this pass but couldn't. Guns don't kill people, the people who pull the trigger are the killers. And just because a fetus cannot live outside the womb doesn't mean it's not a person. How idiotic an example...a one day old infant can't survive sitting on the street corner either but no one's denying that self-sufficiency isn't the only measure of life. And, I'm sorry, but again, most of us on this board are not debating that abortion in cases of rape (where the woman has no say in the matter of getting pregnant) nor when the woman's life is in danger should not be exceptions to the abortion ban so please stop acting like the life of the woman is in jeopardy in every case; it's simply not.

You should have let it pass, since none of you people bother reading anything I say. Do I need to say again that I support the NRA?

So, because a fetus cannot live outside a womb doesn't mean its not a person. So a catapiller, is infact, a butterfly? How idiotic of me.

When you start putting stipulations on a law, people get screwed. Just like with the NRA. You don't want any laws changed, or manipulated. Well neither do Pro Choicers.

 

[jimnyc]

Stories? Like...Bible stories? Like.. a story anyone can make up on the spot? PROOOOF people?? Show me the proof LOL.. Is that so hard?

http://www.canoe.ca/Health0205/25_baby-ap.html

I guess if we all thought like you she should have been killed. But instead, she now goes home a happy 4.4lb baby.

 

[eric]

It would be nice if people would actually do a little research before spouting out a bunch of crap.

Sound familiar, these are your words, so spare me the self-righteous crap.

If you can not understand that once there is a thinking brain that this is a human being then nothing, no matter how scientific, will convice you. Just because it can not live outside the mother yet does not change this fact. If someone has an injury or sickness that requires life-support they are not able to live on their own, but they certainly are alive.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Keebs
Ohhh I love it when people are too lazy to read my entire post.

Oh, where to begin. First of all if you cannot see any difference between the death of a person who has been convicted of a capital crime dying and the death of a fetus, you need course on responsibility. The person on death row is responsible for his own fate; a fetus didn't do anything to deserve death.

As I stated before, I am for the death penelty. You can't see the difference between a fetus and a child. You need a course on biology. If the fetus will kill the mother, yes I'd see how it had done something to deserve death.

You want to see my compassion: I donated over $40,000 dollars last year to other people, how much did you donate? I built a habitat for humanity house, did you? My company, of which I was a partner (and thus had a say), built over 2,000 units of affordable housing around the country. Did yours? The non-profit organization that I am a governor of (again, with decision making ability) donated over $15,000 to various compassionate causes. I have voted according to my conscience and shown others compassion through charitable works.

I don't have 40,000 dollars to give, but yes, I give what I can. I helped work on a house for habitat for humanity also. I volenteer for Meals On Wheels. And I took care of my grandmother who had alshimers, instead of going to college.

Now, its established that we both do good things in our life. Feel better?

You are going to compare the death penalty to abortion? LOL What has the unborn child done to deserve the death penalty?

Read above.

There have been countless stories of women that were killed/murdered... where the child had to be extracted prematurely. The child ends up surviving and leads a natural life. And guess what, the time of the emergency extraction was about the same time a partial term abortion would take place. Shoot, there have been stories of children surviving after only being in the womb for 5-6 months.

Stories? Like...Bible stories? Like.. a story anyone can make up on the spot? PROOOOF people?? Show me the proof LOL.. Is that so hard?

And I do support the NRA, and the guns don't kill people. If there were no people around, would the guns still be killing? It's the people behind the killings.

Now, keep in mind. I support the NRA. WHat do guns do, other than kill things? Look pretty? What does a knife do other than kill people? It is used to cut stake, open mail. There are other productive uses for it. So, don't tell me its ok to kill everything but a damn fetus.

Poor 'ol me, I guess I'm a dumbass!

So, if you will not allow me to abort the fetus. The child becomes gay. You wont let him have any rights? LOL Helllloo? That makes sense to who?

Sorry, but you challenged us about compassionate works because you thought we wouldn't be able to give any. You think that just because we're debating the legality and morality of a 3rd trimester abortion in cases where the mother's life is not at stake (WHY OH WHY MUST I KEEP REPEATING THAT!) we're heartless idiots. Well, we're not. We've considered the options and we don't believe that in matters where the mother's life is NOT at stake the woman should just choose to abort a fetus.

As for taking care of your grandmother....well with your argument why didn't you just knock the old lady off if she couldn't take care of herself?

 

[Keebs]

I guess if we all thought like you she should have been killed. But instead, she now goes home a happy 4.4lb baby.

Wow, did you know that my parents think like me? I have 3 brothers and 2 sisters.

Do you people not understand the word CHOICE?

I think its great that their baby survived. I think its great that my 44 year old aunts baby survived, even when they told her to abort. Did I think she was crazy.. NO she had a CHOICE.

If you can not understand that once there is a thinking brain that this is a human being then nothing, no matter how scientific, will convice you. Just because it can not live outside the mother yet does not change this fact. If someone has an injury or sickness that requires life-support they are not able to live on their own, but they certainly are alive.

I think its pretty obvious that someone who has an injury is already considered a human being.

An Embryo and a Fetus is not a child. If they could prove it, do you think we would still be arguing over this?

 

[eric]

So if a man wants to rape you, I guess this is his CHOICE. I doubt you would see it this way.

 

[Keebs]

I guess if we all thought like you she should have been killed. But instead, she now goes home a happy 4.4lb baby.

Wow, did you know that my parents think like me? I have 3 brothers and 2 sisters.

Do you people not understand the word CHOICE?

I think its great that their baby survived. I think its great that my 44 year old aunts baby survived, even when they told her to abort. Did I think she was crazy.. NO she had a CHOICE.

If you can not understand that once there is a thinking brain that this is a human being then nothing, no matter how scientific, will convice you. Just because it can not live outside the mother yet does not change this fact. If someone has an injury or sickness that requires life-support they are not able to live on their own, but they certainly are alive.

I think its pretty obvious that someone who has an injury is already considered a human being.

An Embryo and a Fetus is not a child. If they could prove it, do you think we would still be arguing over this?

As for taking care of your grandmother....well with your argument why didn't you just knock the old lady off if she couldn't take care of herself?

See, this is what pisses me off. You really do think that because I believe in the right to choose, I am a murderer. You have no idea what that woman put me through as a child. If you think for one minute I didn't murder her because it was illegal, you are wrong. I didn't murder her because its wrong. She is already an established human frickin being. Is that so hard to understand? There is a difference?

 

[eric]

An Embryo and a Fetus is not a child. If they could prove it, do you think we would still be arguing over this?

An embryo no, a fetus, at a certain point, yes. What point would you place this at?

 

[jimnyc]

Wow, did you know that my parents think like me? I have 3 brothers and 2 sisters.

Offer them my condolences

Do you people not understand the word CHOICE?

Sure do! But that doesn't change the fact that children at that late stage of the birth are able to survive. You made it sound like they weren't, my article proved you wrong. Those type of births happen all the time. Thank God not everyone thinks like you.

I think its great that their baby survived. I think its great that my 44 year old aunts baby survived, even when they told her to abort. Did I think she was crazy.. NO she had a CHOICE.

And had she listened to your ramblings there would only be another gravestone.

 

[Keebs]

So if a man wants to rape you, I guess this is his CHOICE. I doubt you would see it this way.

LOL Good point. With my way of thinking, we should all just run rampant with no laws of any kind. I can't wait for a man to attack me and abuse my body for his own will.

It's also my choice to support Lorena Bobbit.

An embryo no, a fetus, at a certain point, yes. What point would you place this at?

At the point where my life is at danger. First of all, lets clear something up. If a woman wants to have an abortion because of reasons other than her health, she needs to do that before the 12th week.

I am not supporting Dialation and Extraction as birthcontrol. But with this frickin law that Bush put in, it is now illegal, no matter what. Health included. THat, is WRONG.

Offer them my condolences

How mature of you, I'll let them know right away.

Sure do! But that doesn't change the fact that children at that late stage of the birth are able to survive. You made it sound like they weren't, my article proved you wrong. Those type of births happen all the time. Thank God not everyone thinks like you.

Thank who? God? Did you think that everyone thinks like you?


And had she listened to your ramblings there would only be another gravestone.

I would like for you to find my post where I said that I force people to have an abortion.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Keebs
I guess if we all thought like you she should have been killed. But instead, she now goes home a happy 4.4lb baby.

Wow, did you know that my parents think like me? I have 3 brothers and 2 sisters.

Do you people not understand the word CHOICE?

I think its great that their baby survived. I think its great that my 44 year old aunts baby survived, even when they told her to abort. Did I think she was crazy.. NO she had a CHOICE.

If you can not understand that once there is a thinking brain that this is a human being then nothing, no matter how scientific, will convice you. Just because it can not live outside the mother yet does not change this fact. If someone has an injury or sickness that requires life-support they are not able to live on their own, but they certainly are alive.

I think its pretty obvious that someone who has an injury is already considered a human being.

An Embryo and a Fetus is not a child. If they could prove it, do you think we would still be arguing over this?

As for taking care of your grandmother....well with your argument why didn't you just knock the old lady off if she couldn't take care of herself?

See, this is what pisses me off. You really do think that because I believe in the right to choose, I am a murderer. You have no idea what that woman put me through as a child. If you think for one minute I didn't murder her because it was illegal, you are wrong. I didn't murder her because its wrong. She is already an established human frickin being. Is that so hard to understand? There is a difference?

You appear to be the type of person who defines the color yellow by saying it's yellow in color. In other words your logic goes nowhere and your arguments all rely on the fact that you have a misunderstanding of what this thread's about. This thread is about 3rd trimester abortion ban. It's not about abortion prior to that fact and it's not about the death penalty or compassion. It's about the viability of the aborted. And, if your only argument for abortion not being murder is that the fetus cannot live independently, than we've all proven your case to be false. We've also shown you how that argument of independence alone should not be the factor in determining "life".

 

[eric]

At the point where my life is at danger

Man you are really thick ! We have stated over and over and over, that if the womens life is in danger, then, at least I, find it ACCEPTABLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is it you do not understand about this position?

I can't wait for a man to attack me and abuse my body for his own will.

Why not, you can allways have an abortion !

Choice is fine, until it affects another persons rights !

 

[eric]

Thank who? God?

What is your obsession with religion, did you drive your boyfriend into becoming a priest?

You are the only one who keeps bringing this up. I can give you the names of some good therapists, you really need to work your issues out !

 

[Keebs]

jimnyc


My previous question goes out to you also. How many children have you adopted, and how many more do you plan on adopting.

I would also like to hear your reasoning on gay rights. If abortion should be abolished, should gays?

You appear to be the type of person who defines the color yellow by saying it's yellow in color. In other words your logic goes nowhere and your arguments all rely on the fact that you have a misunderstanding of what this thread's about. This thread is about 3rd trimester abortion ban. It's not about abortion prior to that fact and it's not about the death penalty or compassion. It's about the viability of the aborted. And, if your only argument for abortion not being murder is that the fetus cannot live independently, than we've all proven your case to be false. We've also shown you how that argument of independence alone should not be the factor in determining "life".

So, because I don't say things they way you would prefer them to be said, I have no logic? Ok

Actually, the "3rd trimester abortion ban" isn't that easy. Anything after the 12th week can be illegal.

You, dear, haven't showed me anything at all. You don't want to debate, or show any sort of proof. You just want to discredit me because I haven't said things in the way that you would like.

You appear to be the type of person who defines the color yellow by saying it's yellow in color

Can someone please tell me some more words to define the color of yellow? I'ts yellow in color? The color yellow, is infact, yellow in color. I'm not quite sure how to explain anything more clearly than that.

If this is the best moi can do, I can't help her.

But then again, I don't know what this thread is about obviously. I've never been on a message board before, I can't read the titles of threads, and hell.. I'm lucky I can even turn the computer on.

Man you are really thick ! We have stated over and over and over, that if the womens life is in danger, then, at least I, find it ACCEPTABLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL Well, in my very first post to you, if you had even bothered to read it, I told you why you are full of shit. You posted twice on how it is MURDER AND BAD! And then once on how it could be ok.

Why not, you can allways have an abortion !

Yes, because, since I support the right to choose, I would 100% without a doubt have an abortion. Whos thick? Pot, meet kettle.

You are the only one who keeps bringing this up. I can give you the names of some good therapists, you really need to work your issues out !

Why are you so offended at the fact that I don't like religion? Are you afriad of something? I can't help you with that, and I don't know any therapists, but obviously you do. Maybe you should go to one.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Keebs
jimnyc


My previous question goes out to you also. How many children have you adopted, and how many more do you plan on adopting.

I would also like to hear your reasoning on gay rights. If abortion should be abolished, should gays?

You appear to be the type of person who defines the color yellow by saying it's yellow in color. In other words your logic goes nowhere and your arguments all rely on the fact that you have a misunderstanding of what this thread's about. This thread is about 3rd trimester abortion ban. It's not about abortion prior to that fact and it's not about the death penalty or compassion. It's about the viability of the aborted. And, if your only argument for abortion not being murder is that the fetus cannot live independently, than we've all proven your case to be false. We've also shown you how that argument of independence alone should not be the factor in determining "life".

So, because I don't say things they way you would prefer them to be said, I have no logic? Ok

Actually, the "3rd trimester abortion ban" isn't that easy. Anything after the 12th week can be illegal.

You, dear, haven't showed me anything at all. You don't want to debate, or show any sort of proof. You just want to discredit me because I haven't said things in the way that you would like.

But then again, I don't know what this thread is about obviously. I've never been on a message board before, I can't read the titles of threads, and hell.. I'm lucky I can even turn the computer on.

Actually, it isn't the way you've said things. It's what you've said. Furthermore, for what, exactly, are you requesting proof? My posts have been about how I do not believe my tax dollars should be used to support causes that I don't believe in. Never once in my posts have I said one word about my feelings towards abortion, in general or specifically 3rd trimester.

My posts defencing people who feel a moral tie to the sanctity of life was in direct response to something you said. You said it's about choice and that a fetus is not alive. When asked what you deem alive, you've stated viability outside the womb. Not only is that inapplicable to 3rd trimester abortions but we've proven that viability can also be applied to all sorts of situations: infirmity, injury, etc. So that can't possibly be the argument you're going to stick with, is it?

 

[eric]

Why are you so offended at the fact that I don't like religion? Are you afriad of something? I can't help you with that, and I don't know any therapists, but obviously you do. Maybe you should go to one.

Of a headstrong little girl, honey you are a threat to no one, it is just when someone is so obsessed with something, there is a reason.

There are no contradictions in my posts, I have said over and over that if a women life is in danger it is ok to have this done. Is this repeated in every one of my posts, no, most people are smart enough that it is not necessary.

Maybe you should go to one

.

Come on you know all us businessmen have one, its fashionable today.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Keebs
jimnyc


My previous question goes out to you also. How many children have you adopted, and how many more do you plan on adopting.

I would also like to hear your reasoning on gay rights. If abortion should be abolished, should gays?

Haven't adopted any and don't plan on it. Does that now make it ok to kill babies in the third tri-mester, because I don't have room for them?

Nobody stated abortion should be abolished, just late term abortions.

Why your constant need to bring up homosexuality? There's a huge difference between right to life and right to anal sex.

For the record, I detest homosexuality.

 

[janeeng]

How many abortions have you preformed? How many have you watched? Or are you talking about the pictures they show from Pro Life pamplets?

Ok, Mr. Liberal! I have dwelled on whether or not I should post my personal life on this board, I even took a ride - and I decided to go ahead and post - I will bow my head right now in shame and hope that the friends I have here, will remain just that and understand what I will post here.

I haven't performed any abortions, no I haven't watched any, no I haven't read any pamphlets, the truth is, I had an abortion at a young tender age of 17 - Yeah, I murdered, and I have read or learned what I know now, no, I wouldn't have done that. Why? because it is MURDER!!! I made a BIG mistake in my life, and didn't no who to turn to, should it have been my parents? too scared the shame I would show them. You talk CHOICE?? I had no choice, so I thought, for fear, embarass to my family, friends, etc.. and to me - so I made my choice, and the choice was to do what I thought was right - I went and did and had EXACTLY what I stated before, the being put to sleep, the dialation, the jar that I looked at before being knocked out, to the tears! when I woke, I cried for days! I know what I did, I KILLED!!! I took life! you can sit and say it's not a life, well let me tell you my friend, until you have carried something in you, don't you DARE tell me it's not a life - I live daily with the pain, the pain of my mistake, the pain of not knowing who or what I would have had, a Daughter/Son, and I took that life and threw it in a jar. I have gone to priests asked for forgiveness, on my hands and knees cried in hopes to have a child someday - yes, I feel I was forgiven, I have 2 children, 1 that I nearly lost because, I had her at 6 months, 6 months, and you say a fetus can't live outside a womb, how wrong you are, 6 months isn't that young, but young enough that she couldn't come home with me, small enough to have to have tubes running throughout her, blood transfusions, tests, medicines, monitors, and death at one point to be brought back! Another little girl, didn't even weigh one pound, now you tell me, how long do you think that fetus stayed in a womb to be born less than a pound, not long, but you know what, SHE SURVIVED!!!!! You talk about all this crap on abortion, and yeah, everyone has an OPINION, let me tell you, I HAVE THE FACTS!!!! and the fact is, IT is MURDER!!! and the murder that I will live with for the rest of my life, until the day that I can finally come to see what I gave up, yes, I believe that I will meet my Son/Daughter someday, and I hope to be forgiven for what I did.

Abortion, well, if a Mother's life is in danger and she could die, then I suppose the choice is hers! but, to go out and do a stupid thing, there are other choices!!!!

Ok, maybe none of this made sense to any of you, but it does to me. Now, i will bow my head and shame, and I will excuse myself for the night! should I have the courage to come back here, then all I ask is that some that gotten to know me, understand that I made a stupid mistake, a mistake that I live with, but can't sit here and read these posts on here anymore, without giving you the FACTS!!!

Sorry to those that know me..and to my family who read on here, I appologize!