Parents Who Prayed While Child Died Charged

[AllieBaba]

He was only popular with a very tiny percentage of the population. And suicide by cyanide doesn't compare.
We'll see how the law handles it. Typically, when a DA brings such an idiotic charge as this, they spend $$$ and go through the whole circus, and the judge gives the parents a conviction, but zero jail time.

Probation. Wow. I'm sure it's worth it. Falls a little short of a lynching, but there you go.

 

[Larkinn]

Nope. I think it's foolish. But they have a right to choose the treatment for their kid.

They didn't choose the treatment, because they didn't know of alternatives. They didn't even know the kid had Diabetes. You've posted how terrible a disease it is. If someone is going through all of that and the people responsible for the person who is ill does NOTHING, they are responsible for it.

Oh and it wasn't sudden onset. The kid had symptoms for 2 weeks.

 

[mattskramer]

They didn't choose the treatment, because they didn't know of alternatives. They didn't even know the kid had Diabetes. You've posted how terrible a disease it is. If someone is going through all of that and the people responsible for the person who is ill does NOTHING, they are responsible for it.

Oh and it wasn't sudden onset. The kid had symptoms for 2 weeks.

According to the link in the original post:
“The Neumanns told authorities they did not call for help earlier because they believe in the power of prayer…But authorities believe the girl, who was enrolled in a public school until last spring and this fall had been home-schooled, was likely ill for several days, perhaps longer, before her death.” This is clear cut for me. The parents should be charged and convicted.

 

[Gunny]

Because tolerance of ignorance makes the judicial system break down and become a farce.



Right. Agree with me that you don't shoot someone in the face. Whoah, what a fucking concept! Agree with me that you don't allow your child to die without seeking medical help. Whoah, what a fucking concept!

Don't try and pull this "omg you aren't tolerant" load of horse shit. That has nothing to do with this.



Thats when the facts are unclear. What fact is at issue here exactly?

Either they know what I know, or they should have. You don't get to get out of killing someone because your an idiot.



Give me a fucking break. Sure, lets just let everyone plead stupidity when they act criminally. Then we can let murderers off because they didn't know what a gun was.

Learn to read jackass. I think I made it perfectly clear I was playing Devil's Advocate.

You'd don't have to continually prove you're a jerkoff. Everyone already knows.

 

[AllieBaba]

Two weeks is still sudden onset. As compared to gradual symptoms which develop incrementally over years.

Once again, lots of people get sick for 2 weeks at a time, and don't realize how sick they are. I've had flu symptoms for 2 weeks, and never went to the doctor. My mother lived with hypothyroidism for years before finally going into the doctor (who told her she should be in a coma).

I don't believe anyone has ever gone to jail for this sort of thing. Which is good and right. It's a waste of time and energy to take it to court.

And you guys are forgetting something. The father DID call 911. He sought treatment. Unfortunately, it was too late.
"When Kara stopped breathing, her father's faith weakened, and he dialed 911."
http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/column/281196
He took her to the hospital.

So you aren't set on hanging him for refusing her treatment...in the end he sought treatment. You're just mad because he's a Christian who thought she was going to get better.

"Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin, who is investigating the death, told reporters that the Neumanns are "not crazy." He went on to explain, "They believed up to the time she stopped breathing that she was going to get better. They just thought it was a spiritual attack. They believed that if they prayed enough she would get better ... they said it was the course of action they would take again."
Kara's three siblings are staying with relatives until the investigation is completed, but Chief Vergin assured reporters, "There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see." "

 

[Larkinn]

Learn to read jackass. I think I made it perfectly clear I was playing Devil's Advocate.

I wasn't aware "playing Devil's advocate" included making personal attacks about your opponents being intolerant. Thats not playing Devil's advocate, thats using ad hominem arguments.

You'd don't have to continually prove you're a jerkoff. Everyone already knows.

Your opinion of me means jack shit. Stick to the issues, genius.

 

[Gunny]

No. Someone who kills their child because they neglected its medical care should be charged with a crime. It shouldn't be tolerated. Nor should there be one standard for people who neglect their children out of ignorance or malice and another for people who neglect their children because of purported religious belief. Or do you think we should have a double standard?



If they treated the child with prayer, they committed medical neglect. That medical neglect resulted in the death of the child. The charge is appropriate.

Do you or do you not agree with the facts as stated? They seem not to be in dispute.



You say *I'm* partisan? lol.. I can assure you if a democrat/liberal who let their child die because they neglected it would have my equal ire. Again, Is anyone actually contesting the disputed facts?



The severity of the crime? Why? Because they say they let their kid die in the name of Jesus?

If they intentionally caused the child's death, that would be a different charge. They were charged appropriately for the disregard for the child's life.

I disagree with you calling them murderers. You didn't answer the question. Did they intentionally set out to cause the death of this child?

Again, as already stated, I am not excusing the crime. I asked you a specific legal question that determines whether or not a crime is murder or negligent homicide. There IS a difference, right?

They are being charged with negligent manslaughter, IIRC. That isn't murder. If you understand the charge, then why are YOU calling them murderers?

 

[AllieBaba]

Because they're Christians. The same reason she says that anyone who isn't 100 percent behind yanking girls from their home and subjecting them to gynocological exams promote child rape.

 

[Larkinn]

Two weeks is still sudden onset. As compared to gradual symptoms which develop incrementally over years.

Sure, anything is sudden compared to something longer.

In those 2 weeks they had plenty of opportunies to seek medical help.

Once again, lots of people get sick for 2 weeks at a time, and don't realize how sick they are.

They were urged by friends and family members to take the child to a doctor. They said they would stick with prayer.

I've had flu symptoms for 2 weeks, and never went to the doctor. My mother lived with hypothyroidism for years before finally going into the doctor (who told her she should be in a coma).

Diabetes is just a wee bit worse than the flu.

I don't believe anyone has ever gone to jail for this sort of thing. Which is good and right. It's a waste of time and energy to take it to court.

No, its not. You have a responsibility to those in your care. Your ignorance doesn't excuse you.

And you guys are forgetting something. The father DID call 911. He sought treatment. Unfortunately, it was too late.
"When Kara stopped breathing, her father's faith weakened, and he dialed 911."http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/column/281196
He took her to the hospital.

Oh, well, after she stopped breathing he acted. Really very helpful.

So you aren't set on hanging him for refusing her treatment...in the end he sought treatment. You're just mad because he waited too long.

Yup. And his waiting killed someone.

You make an unreasonable mistake that kill someone else, thats called negligent homicide.

Why don't you drive drunk with the belief that alcohol doesn't impair your senses. See what happens. Why don't you shoot someone with the belief that god won't let you kill someone. See what happens.

You don't get a free pass because your a religious whacko.

 

[Gunny]

Yes, its a terrible disease. And if you have that disease you should seek medical treatment.



Umm, what?

Yes, people bash Christians when they are responsible for killing or raping their children. People bash Muslims when Walmart has a tiny section of one store devoted to selling Arab food.

Cry me a fucking river.

Which Christians are responsible for raping their children? Last I checked, Christ did not promote the rape of children, so no matter what they call themselves, their actions are NOT Christian.

But then, you KNOW that. You just couldn't pass the opportunity to bash Christians.

 

[Larkinn]

I disagree with you calling them murderers. You didn't answer the question. Did they intentionally set out to cause the death of this child?

No they didn't.

Again, as already stated, I am not excusing the crime. I asked you a specific legal question that determines whether or not a crime is murder or negligent homicide. There IS a difference, right?

Not really. Murder is a broad category including the crime of killing someone negligently or recklessly. At least according to the MPC.

Edit: Actually it has to be reckless with the broad disregard for human life. Could be applicable here...its arguable at least.

They are being charged with negligent manslaughter, IIRC. That isn't murder. If you understand the charge, then why are YOU calling them murderers?

Why does it matter? They are just words right? Why do you persist with the word games?

 

[AllieBaba]

Sure, anything is sudden compared to something longer.

In those 2 weeks they had plenty of opportunies to seek medical help.



They were urged by friends and family members to take the child to a doctor. They said they would stick with prayer.



Diabetes is just a wee bit worse than the flu.



No, its not. You have a responsibility to those in your care. Your ignorance doesn't excuse you.




Oh, well, after she stopped breathing he acted. Really very helpful.



Yup. And his waiting killed someone.

You make an unreasonable mistake that kill someone else, thats called negligent homicide.

Why don't you drive drunk with the belief that alcohol doesn't impair your senses. See what happens. Why don't you shoot someone with the belief that god won't let you kill someone. See what happens.

You don't get a free pass because your a religious whacko.

You really are an idiot. The term "sudden onset" is a medical term, dildo. It's not a relative or descriptive term I've just pulled out of my ass.
Yes, they had plenty of opportunity to seek medical help, IF THEY THOUGHT THEY NEEDED TO.
So glad people aren't actually dependent on you for their defense.
Also glad victims aren't dependent upon you for prosecution of perps.

 

[Larkinn]

Which Christians are responsible for raping their children? Last I checked, Christ did not promote the rape of children, so no matter what they call themselves, their actions are NOT Christian.

But then, you KNOW that. You just couldn't pass the opportunity to bash Christians.

Try some reading comprehension. I didn't say their ACTIONS were Christian, I said THEY were Christian. FLDS are Christians, whether you like it or not.

Christ didn't type on an internet message board either. That mean you aren't a Christian?

 

[Gunny]

I wasn't aware "playing Devil's advocate" included making personal attacks about your opponents being intolerant. Thats not playing Devil's advocate, thats using ad hominem arguments.



Your opinion of me means jack shit. Stick to the issues, genius.

You mean like you do? You couldn't address an issue honestly if your life depended on it, so who the fuck do you think YOU'RE preaching to, nimrod?

Sorry that English is such a hard thing for you to understand. My comments concerning a STATED OPINION were to question that STATED OPINION, and STATE MY OPINION.

And considering you can't type a sentence without taking some condescending, personal shot at the other person, shut the fuck up and practice what you preach, pissant.

 

[Ravi]

Dildo? LMAO!

Any parents that can't tell their child is slipping into a coma should really rethink their ability to parent.

Jebus, I used to freak when my little ones had a temp.

 

[Larkinn]

You really are an idiot. The term "sudden onset" is a medical term, dildo. It's not a relative or descriptive term I've just pulled out of my ass.

If you are using it as a term of art, define it for all of us who aren't doctors.

Yes, they had plenty of opportunity to seek medical help, IF THEY THOUGHT THEY NEEDED TO.

So they didn't think they needed help?

So why did the father send out an e-mail asking for "emergency prayer" for the daughter and talk about how weak she was?

Yeah I'm sure they thought she was doing fine.

So glad people aren't actually dependent on you for their defense.
Also glad victims aren't dependent upon you for prosecution of perps.

Yes, you think counselor is spelled councilor and you think your able to accurately gauge my legal advice?

 

[mattskramer]

Two weeks is still sudden onset. As compared to gradual symptoms which develop incrementally over years.

Once again, lots of people get sick for 2 weeks at a time, and don't realize how sick they are. I've had flu symptoms for 2 weeks, and never went to the doctor. My mother lived with hypothyroidism for years before finally going into the doctor (who told her she should be in a coma).

You are playing Russian roulette. Study up a tiny bit on general health and see a doctor if you become ill and fail to heal after a few days. When you steadily and steadily get worse, then you go to a doctor. It is practically common sense. You do not put things off for weeks.

I don't believe anyone has ever gone to jail for this sort of thing. Which is good and right. It's a waste of time and energy to take it to court.

Oh well. I totally disagree. It looks like at least a clear case of negligence in my book.

And you guys are forgetting something. The father DID call 911. He sought treatment. Unfortunately, it was too late. "When Kara stopped breathing, her father's faith weakened, and he dialed 911.

.."http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/column/281196
He took her to the hospital.

Gee. Finally – after how long with her sick child? Why didn’t he simply take her to see the doctor first after just a few days perhaps. That is like me saying that I’ve been having blood pouring out of my ass for several weeks. Now I have severe stomach cramps but I think that they will go away. Now I am coughing up blood-clots. Well, it has been a while and I am not getting better. I guess that I better see a doctor.

So you aren't set on hanging him for refusing her treatment...in the end he sought treatment. You're just mad because he waited too long.

Sentence him for several months to a year for negligence.

 

[Ravi]

So they didn't think they needed help?

So why did the father send out an e-mail asking for "emergency prayer" for the daughter and talk about how weak she was?

 

[Gunny]

Try some reading comprehension. I didn't say their ACTIONS were Christian, I said THEY were Christian. FLDS are Christians, whether you like it or not.

Christ didn't type on an internet message board either. That mean you aren't a Christian?

I read what you posted. You can quit tapdancing. It's doing you no good.

Whether you like it or not, calling oneself a Christian does not make it so.

And, as usual, you have to make some irrelevant, bullshit comparison. Have I ever claimed typing on a message board was Christian? Why, as a matter of fact, no I have not. So much for THAT drivel and waste of bandwidth.

 

[AllieBaba]

If you are using it as a term of art, define it for all of us who aren't doctors.



So they didn't think they needed help?

So why did the father send out an e-mail asking for "emergency prayer" for the daughter and talk about how weak she was?

Yeah I'm sure they thought she was doing fine.





Yes, you think counselor is spelled councilor and you think your able to accurately gauge my legal advice?

You betcha.