Parents Outrage At School Over Gay Storybook

[Nienna]

I'm just wondering, on what facts do you base that observation?

On what I have observed in my own area, and from what I have read, it seems not to be a localized phenomenon. Kids are assigned papers on "What I like about ME" instead of "Someone I admire." Competitive contests are passe; group projects are en vogue. Read Best Practice: New Standards fro Teaching and Learning in America's Schools. For an idea of the tenets of "progressivism" that are embraced by the educational elite, and trickle down to Ms. Johnson in Hometown Elementary.

I have only to look around me to see the lack of respect, unawareness of authority that permeates our youth. Kids have always locked horns with authority figures, but in kids today, there seems to be an unhealthy ASSURANCE that whatever they choose to do in life deserves to be accepted. Even sexual assault should be accepted, because that's what they wanted to do. Cases in point: Lyle & Kevin Scherzer and Chris Archer, and the Spur Posse (after being prosecuted for sexual assault, one member of the Spur Posse was asked if he was comfortable with himself and his self-esteem. His reply? "Yeah, why wouldn't I? I mean, what's not to like about me?" The War Against Boys) Perhaps it's just the media attention, but it seems like more and more "normal" kids are commiting atrocious acts, with seemingly very little remorse.

Less extreme examples of the "entitlement attitude," actual people I know: A friend's sister who can't hold down a job because she doesn't like any of them. A neighbor who collects disability, but still manages to erect a barn nearly singlehandedly on his property. A woman who collects disability because she makes more money that way she did when she was working.

As for the declining state of education in America, there's plenty of info out there. You can google it.

 

[Nienna]

I also want to clarify that I DO NOT believe it is the school's job to raise our children, but today's curriculum feeds the problem with an overemphasis on self-esteem, and an underemphasis on personal responsibility.

 

[Annie]

On what I have observed in my own area, and from what I have read, it seems not to be a localized phenomenon. Kids are assigned papers on "What I like about ME" instead of "Someone I admire." Competitive contests are passe; group projects are en vogue. Read Best Practice: New Standards fro Teaching and Learning in America's Schools. For an idea of the tenets of "progressivism" that are embraced by the educational elite, and trickle down to Ms. Johnson in Hometown Elementary.

I have only to look around me to see the lack of respect, unawareness of authority that permeates our youth. Kids have always locked horns with authority figures, but in kids today, there seems to be an unhealthy ASSURANCE that whatever they choose to do in life deserves to be accepted. Even sexual assault should be accepted, because that's what they wanted to do. Cases in point: Lyle & Kevin Scherzer and Chris Archer, and the Spur Posse (after being prosecuted for sexual assault, one member of the Spur Posse was asked if he was comfortable with himself and his self-esteem. His reply? "Yeah, why wouldn't I? I mean, what's not to like about me?" The War Against Boys) Perhaps it's just the media attention, but it seems like more and more "normal" kids are commiting atrocious acts, with seemingly very little remorse.

Less extreme examples of the "entitlement attitude," actual people I know: A friend's sister who can't hold down a job because she doesn't like any of them. A neighbor who collects disability, but still manages to erect a barn nearly singlehandedly on his property. A woman who collects disability because she makes more money that way she did when she was working.

As for the declining state of education in America, there's plenty of info out there. You can google it.

I'm working on a monster post, but in the meantime, this rocks!

 

[jillian]

All valid, and I have a few gay friends that I have had forever since highschool, but it will be my decision as to how I raise my son or daughter in treating them with respect etc, not for the school to teach, that's crossing a line and taking too many liberties with my children. I shouldn't be placed in a situation in which I have to undo what the school has done in some respects.

Fair enough. But let me ask you something since you're reasonable and not OTT on this subject as some are....

Since you have friends who are gay and respect them and will teach your kids to respect them by virtue of your example, why is what the school teaches on the subject an issue?

 

[Bonnie]

Fair enough. But let me ask you something since you're reasonable and not OTT on this subject as some are....

Since you have friends who are gay and respect them and will teach your kids to respect them by virtue of your example, why is what the school teaches on the subject an issue?

While I will teach my kids to respect them, I will also not allow them to think that is the lifestyle I want them to have or one that I want them to think is perfectly acceptable to us as parents and as Catholics. So I want to be the one to decide how and when to broach the subject if ever? There is a vast difference between respecting people as human beings because that is the Christian teachings and the right thing to do, and embracing a particular lifestyle I disagree with. When schools teach young kids in particular about morally driven issues like this they take away parental control and they take away childrens innocence, they have no right to do either.

Im always amazed considering how liberals complain about government (school) intrusion into personal lives, how quickly they make allowances for such intrusion when the agenda falls on their side of the aisle and fits their beliefs.

 

[jillian]

While I will teach my kids to respect them, I will also not allow them to think that is the lifestyle I want them to have or one that I want them to think is perfectly acceptable to us as parents and as Catholics. So I want to be the one to decide how and when to broach the subject if ever? There is a vast difference between respecting people as human beings because that is the Christian teachings and the right thing to do, and embracing a particular lifestyle I disagree with. When schools teach young kids in particular about morally driven issues like this they take away parental control and they take away childrens innocence, they have no right to do either.

Im always amazed considering how liberals complain about government (school) intrusion into personal lives, how quickly they make allowances for such intrusion when the agenda falls on their side of the aisle and fits their beliefs.

I understand where you're coming from. But I have trouble with the idea of people being treated differently because of something they're born.

I also think there's a big difference between government invading someone's bedroom and government just letting people live their lives. Also, I think there's an awareness that there are gay kids out there who get beaten and abused by school mates and the effort at education is largely directed at preventing that in many areas. In NY, there's even the Harvey Milk School for gay kids who choose to separate themselves (usually due to having encountered bullying). I don't mind protecting these kids. They're going to have enough problems just for being different.

I also don't think it's so much a function of "liberals". I think most people don't really concern themselves with the issue unless there is a religious basis for that concern or it's personal on some level. You seem like a fair enough person,though. And thank you for answering my question.

 

[Annie]

I understand where you're coming from. But I have trouble with the idea of people being treated differently because of something they're born.

I also think there's a big difference between government invading someone's bedroom and government just letting people live their lives. Also, I think there's an awareness that there are gay kids out there who get beaten and abused by school mates and the effort at education is largely directed at preventing that in many areas. In NY, there's even the Harvey Milk School for gay kids who choose to separate themselves (usually due to having encountered bullying). I don't mind protecting these kids. They're going to have enough problems just for being different.

the epitome of accomodation. Ignoring that, real world the one where heteros dominate, but cannot 'squash' the different. What about them? Do they have a right for their children to be protected from the lessons of homosexuality? Not saying they should have lessons in superiority of something else.

I also don't think it's so much a function of "liberals". I think most people don't really concern themselves with the issue unless there is a religious basis for that concern or it's personal on some level. You seem like a fair enough person,though. And thank you for answering my question.

Agreed. Most of us really think it's a non-issue. if someone is gay, go with it-problem is now, they want my endorsement. That is a problem.

 

[jillian]

On what I have observed in my own area, and from what I have read, it seems not to be a localized phenomenon. Kids are assigned papers on "What I like about ME" instead of "Someone I admire." Competitive contests are passe; group projects are en vogue. Read Best Practice: New Standards fro Teaching and Learning in America's Schools. For an idea of the tenets of "progressivism" that are embraced by the educational elite, and trickle down to Ms. Johnson in Hometown Elementary.

I have only to look around me to see the lack of respect, unawareness of authority that permeates our youth. Kids have always locked horns with authority figures, but in kids today, there seems to be an unhealthy ASSURANCE that whatever they choose to do in life deserves to be accepted. Even sexual assault should be accepted, because that's what they wanted to do. Cases in point: Lyle & Kevin Scherzer and Chris Archer, and the Spur Posse (after being prosecuted for sexual assault, one member of the Spur Posse was asked if he was comfortable with himself and his self-esteem. His reply? "Yeah, why wouldn't I? I mean, what's not to like about me?" The War Against Boys) Perhaps it's just the media attention, but it seems like more and more "normal" kids are commiting atrocious acts, with seemingly very little remorse.

Less extreme examples of the "entitlement attitude," actual people I know: A friend's sister who can't hold down a job because she doesn't like any of them. A neighbor who collects disability, but still manages to erect a barn nearly singlehandedly on his property. A woman who collects disability because she makes more money that way she did when she was working.

As for the declining state of education in America, there's plenty of info out there. You can google it.

All good observations. I've noticed many of those same things. But I don't think it comes from an overabundance of self-esteem. It does come from a sense of entitlement and lack of discipline however. FWIW, I HATE the types of schools where they won't use a red pen for fear of upsetting kids or soccer teams where everyone wins an award whether they've earned one or not. I think that sends horrible messages as well. In fact, I was telling someone today that when my son was in Pre-K, his teacher assigned the book The Rainbow Fish. I had a run-in with her about it because the book says that theonly way to be accepted is to be "average" and hide or "share" whatever is exemplary about you. Made me crazy....because I think people should be encouraged to be as exceptional as possible.

I'm not sure what the cause is for the anti-social behavior you're describing....I think kids are surrounded by violence, though, and that takes its toll. But that's just my observation and it's certainly not a hypothesis I can quantify.

As for your people who can't hold a job because they "don't like them"... I've known some people like that, too....

Maybe they're just spoiled brats? (Though, again, I think that comes more from overly-indulgent parents than from schools.... but I get ya!)

As for the declining state of education, I don't need to google that. I think a lot of it has to do with the anti-science movement. I also think it has to do with a mistaken desire to "equalize" schools and instead of doing that by making poorly performing schools better, it seems that they try to make all schools the same (which, unfortunately, means the high performing school's numbers get brought down).

 

[jillian]

the epitome of accomodation. Ignoring that, real world the one where heteros dominate, but cannot 'squash' the different. What about them? Do they have a right for their children to be protected from the lessons of homosexuality? Not saying they should have lessons in superiority of something else. Agreed. Most of us really think it's a non-issue. if someone is gay, go with it-problem is now, they want my endorsement. That is a problem.

I don't think anyone wants your "endorsement". But I do think everyone is entitled to be treated equally under the law.

 

[dilloduck]

I don't think anyone wants your "endorsement". But I do think everyone is entitled to be treated equally under the law.

So religious people can express thier views on government just like everyone else?
how--------fair!

 

[Dr Grump]

So religious people can express thier views on government just like everyone else?
how--------fair!

heh!

 

[insein]

I agree, and disagree. I agree that the 60s & 70s saw an influx of social engineers (whose ideas sprung from the Rousseau-ean romantic notion that "children are basically good, and we must not stifle their natural goodness with rules"). But I disagree that schools are not for teaching morals. Any time an adult works with children, he will be demonstrating morality. Children naturally look to the adult in charge for an example of how to act. However, schools USED to confine this to ideas like "respect," "responsiblity," "hard work," and "obedience." These ideas are way out of style these days. The self-esteem pirates stole the education ship. Now we have kids who have no idea how to think critically, logically, and unselfishly, and who have superinflated egos. They leave school, not with an education and the skills and work ethic which would enable them to succeed, but with a sense of entitlement.

An adult in the position of an instructor will inherently demonstrate some sort of morality. But we need to leave out all the therapeutic, feel-good stuff, and teach children how to actually survive--- dare we hope, even SUCCEED--- in the real world.

Along the lines of what i was thinking but you said it better. When i meant "No morality" i meant no judgements on sexual orientation, race, political background, economic background, etc from the teachers to the students. A natural work ethic would be in place if the standard curriculum of reading, writing and rithmetic were followed. It takes hard work to achieve success in those subjects. Students would attain this as an added bonus of doing the work themselves instead of being given a passing grade for failing work.

 

[insein]

for example?

Example 1:

America fought against Great Brittain to gain it's Independence in the 1700's.

As opposed to "The evil nation of the US was spawned in the 1700's when they rebeled against the great power of Brittain."

Example 2:

WWII ended in the pacific when America dropped the Atomic bomb on Japan, forcing their surrender.

As opposed to "America slaughtered innocent Japanese in an effort to impress the soviets of their new technology in one of the worst displays of human rights in history."

See the difference?

 

[Dr Grump]

Example 1:

America fought against Great Brittain to gain it's Independence in the 1700's.

As opposed to "The evil nation of the US was spawned in the 1700's when they rebeled against the great power of Brittain."

Example 2:

WWII ended in the pacific when America dropped the Atomic bomb on Japan, forcing their surrender.

As opposed to "America slaughtered innocent Japanese in an effort to impress the soviets of their new technology in one of the worst displays of human rights in history."

See the difference?

Heard versions of the latter, not the former though...

 

[nukeman]

I don't think anyone wants your "endorsement". But I do think everyone is entitled to be treated equally under the law.

I bolded the important statement here in you post. You are exactly right EVERYONE IS TO BE TREATED EQUALLY not just the people that have a particular agenda.

This also means that my children have the right to not hear things from a person in a postion of authority about what is acceptable behavior and what is not. Beyond the accept norm..

Teachers hold a very high postition in a childs mind. Sometimes higher than their parents especially in young children. Children see their parents in good and bad so they know that they have shortcomings, but teachers generaly are only with a child for 6 hours durring the day so the children dont see the fallable side of them. This makes it very important to limmit what a teacher actually can inform a child about social issues of this ilke. If a teacher tells a young child something they are more apt to believe the "teacher" than they are their parents. Now this will gradually change as the child gets older but when a child is very imppresionable in early grade school they should keep the social engineering out of the class room

What you may feel is OK, others will not, and this is where you stick to the basics and get off of all the social experiments That is exaclty what this is just a social experiment..

 

[insein]

Heard versions of the latter, not the former though...

And it is revisionist history. We need to take a "Just the facts, maam" appraoch to education when it comes to history. What happened. When it happened. Why it happened. Not the good and bad of it. Not the social ramifications of it. Just the facts. If students wish to know more, then they will seek it out on their own. But give them the base of information (Who, What, when, why) then they will learn the How on their own.

 

[jillian]

I bolded the important statement here in you post. You are exactly right EVERYONE IS TO BE TREATED EQUALLY not just the people that have a particular agenda.

This also means that my children have the right to not hear things from a person in a postion of authority about what is acceptable behavior and what is not. Beyond the accept norm..

OK...say for argument's sake that I agree. I feel the same way about religion in school. Yet the same people who have issues with this, would force me to have my child be exposed to someone else's idea of appropriate religion.

 

[Gem]

jillian,

As a teacher, I can tell you that over-inflated self-esteem IS a problem in schools today. An example of this can be seen in the study that was done a few years ago comparing self-esteem regarding intelligence to actual test results from students from a variety of different nations. What the study revealed was that many American students stated that they felt very intelligent while their test results had the ranked very low in math and reading/writing. Meanwhile, students from other nations had high rankings on the tests, but listed themselves as average to low-average intelligence.

Now...I will be the first to argue that comparing American schools to other nations schools can be misleading due to the fact that we include all students in our testing results, not just the college-bound ones, etc. But I do think that it hints at the fact that American students, in general, may have way more self-esteem than they may deserve regarding their ability.

I see similar things in my day-to-day teaching...students who feel that they are brilliant...when really they should be putting in a bit more time studying. I attribute this more and more to parents who both work and so they spoil their children rotten rather than parenting them...

I'm glad you brought up "Rainbow Fish" though. That book drives me up a friggin wall!!!!! What type of message is that for kids!?!??! Its basically like telling our young children that its better to hide your talents to fit in than to stand out and shine...UGH!

 

[Eightball]

Please, God...show up quickly. Your creation is seriously f'ing things up down here....

Man, if this isn't a sign of the "end times" I just don't know what.

It's like this polarizing split happening in our country......Red States versus Blue States is more than political in it's divide too. It's basic philosophical/ethical differences in my opinion.

 

[Nuc]

jillian,

As a teacher, I can tell you that over-inflated self-esteem IS a problem in schools today. An example of this can be seen in the study that was done a few years ago comparing self-esteem regarding intelligence to actual test results from students from a variety of different nations. What the study revealed was that many American students stated that they felt very intelligent while their test results had the ranked very low in math and reading/writing. Meanwhile, students from other nations had high rankings on the tests, but listed themselves as average to low-average intelligence.

Now...I will be the first to argue that comparing American schools to other nations schools can be misleading due to the fact that we include all students in our testing results, not just the college-bound ones, etc. But I do think that it hints at the fact that American students, in general, may have way more self-esteem than they may deserve regarding their ability.

I see similar things in my day-to-day teaching...students who feel that they are brilliant...when really they should be putting in a bit more time studying. I attribute this more and more to parents who both work and so they spoil their children rotten rather than parenting them...
!

Anybody who has spent any time out of this egocentric country knows that the majority of people here are dumb as shit. I've been in plenty of third world countries that have higher literacy rates than the ''Greatest country in the history of the world". Not to mention our kids are the most spoiled, bar none.