Paradoxical Earth.. Complex responses often misinterpreted...

[Billy_Bob]

Science is always skeptical and looking for other solutions. That does NOT mean that science has rejected what it currently holds as the best theory; it's just what science does. AGW is has been repeated and verified thousands of times by thousands of studies. NO ONE has verified Vinos' work.

You have no repeatedly claimed that AGW is a failed hypothesis when, as you well know, it is a VERY widely accepted theory. You claimed that empirical observations had shown it had failed yet, even when asked, you have NEVER presented those observations.

In this conversation I have assiduously stayed clear of discussions of the qualifications you claim. Any comments I have made that you might want to take as personal were addressing your failure to produce the observations you claimed to possess. That is, they were part and parcel of this discussion. That can NOT be said when you accuse me of being motivated by a desire to exercise "control over the populace". It cannot be said of ANY attempt to attach motives to my statements.

If Javier's (you're on a first name basis now?) premise is correct, perhaps you can explain how energy transport through 6,000 miles of air can overwhelm transport through 100 miles of air with 4.5 TIMES as great a temperature differential? For that matter, if most of the Earth's heating is escaping above the Arctic, HOW do satellites find a linear relationship between surface temperature and OLW intensity?

IF you took the time to study what Javier purports, the second path takes the heat high into the atmosphere as it is pulled poll ward. This is above cloud boundary where LWIR can escape during transport. This distance change is aiding in the energy loss.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Where are the empirical observations that you claimed show that neither CO2 nor man is involved in global warming?

You refuse to read. I am not going to do your homework for you. Javier explains the why in great detail. I highlighted the area where he explains why CO2 cannot drive anything. Why do you refuse to look at what his hypothesis is? There are THREE mechanisms which control the thermal balance. GHG's are a very minor to irrelevant roll, as he explains.

Read the post by Andy May on WUWT. It will take you about 15 min to read it. Andy does an excellent job of summation.

 

[Crick]

Vinos paper is quite accurate

And how would you be judging that? Whose work would you be comparing it to? What other experts have weighed in on his book? And Anthony Watts is not an expert.

and is bearing out empirical reviews of his hypothesis.

What in the world is "an empirical review"?

Your AGW crap not so much.

What in the world is "an empirical review"?

What do you think of this linear, energy transport, route change?

As I explained, based on the Kelly and Koll PNAS article finding OLW intensity in a linear relationship with surface temperature, not much

The shrinking of the atmosphere above the poles and due to that thinning, the energy loss increases and speed of that loss?

Unfortunately, as perhaps the temperatures might tell you, not a lot of the world's heat makes it to the poles.

Empirical evidence removes CO2 and man from the cause of anything globally here.

And here, in red, is the ringer. For the fourth time, WHAT "EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE REMOVES CO2 AND MAN FROM THE CAUSE OF ANYTHING GLOBALLY HERE"??

You made this statement. Have the balls to defend it.

 

[Crick]

IF you took the time to study what Javier purports, the second path takes the heat high into the atmosphere as it is pulled poll ward. This is above cloud boundary where LWIR can escape during transport. This distance change is aiding in the energy loss.

If it's escaping during transport, it isn't escaping at the poles, is it. And, you know, I'm no atmospheric physicist, but I think the greater the differential between temperatures at the surface and in the stratosphere, the greater the flux rate of vertical convective transfer. And that differential is a whole lot larger at the equator than at the poles.

 

[abu afak]

You refuse to read. I am not going to do your homework for you. Javier explains the why in great detail. I highlighted the area where he explains why CO2 cannot drive anything. Why do you refuse to look at what his hypothesis is? There are THREE mechanisms which control the thermal balance. GHG's are a very minor to irrelevant roll, as he explains.

Read the post by Andy May on WUWT. It will take you about 15 min to read it. Andy does an excellent job of summation.

About those complex variations....​

​

Earth’s Spin, Tilt and Orbit​

Earth’s spin, tilt, and orbit Affect the amount of solar energy received by any particular region of the globe, depending on latitude, time of day, and time of year. Small changes in the angle of Earth’s tilt and the shape of its orbit around the Sun Cause Changes in Climate over a span of 10,000 to 100,000 years, and are Not Causing climate change today.

Daily changes in light and temperature are caused by the rotation of the Earth, and seasonal changes are caused by the tilt of the Earth. As the Earth orbits the Sun, the Earth is pulled by the gravitational forces of the Sun, Moon, and large planets in the solar system, primarily Jupiter and Saturn. Over long periods of time, the gravitational pull of other members of our solar system slowly change Earth’s spin, tilt, and orbit. Over approximately 100,000 – 400,000 years, gravitational forces slowly change Earth’s orbit between more circular and elliptical shapes, as indicated by the blue and yellow dashed ovals in the figure to the right.

Over 19,000 – 24,000 years, the direction of Earth’s tilt shifts (spins). Additionally, how much Earth’s axis is tilted towards or away from the Sun changes through time, over approximately 41,000 year cycles. Small changes in Earth’s spin, tilt, and orbit over these long periods of time can change the amount of sunlight received (and therefore absorbed and re-radiated) by different parts of the Earth. Over 10s to 100s of thousands of years, these small changes in the position of the Earth in relationship to the Sun can change the amount of solar radiation, also known as insolation, received by different parts of the Earth. In turn, changes in insolation over these long periods of time can change regional climates and the length and intensity of the seasons. The Earth’s spin, tilt, and orbit continue to change today, but do Not explain the Current Rapid climate change.


Adapted from Universe Today.

Changes in insolation result in cycles of ice ages, during which ice sheets expand (glacial periods) and contract (interglacial periods). These patterns of ice ages, also called Milankovitch cycles, were predicted by the Serbian scientist Milutin Milankovitch. Milankovitch predicted that glacial periods occur during times of low summer insolation at high latitudes in the northern hemisphere, which would allow ice sheets to remain from year to year without melting. Subsequently, scientists have found extensive evidence of Milankovitch cycles preserved in the geologic record, especially in layers of sediment and fossils in ocean basins that preserve chemical changes in the ocean and atmosphere during glacial and interglacial periods. Although a major cause of change over long periods of time in the past, Earth’s spin, tilt and orbit changes so slowly that it is not a cause of global warming and climate change today.
Changes in Earth’s spin, tilt, and orbit have affected the Earth system in the past on various scales. Some of these ways include:

• • Increasing or decreasing amount of sunlight that is absorbed by different areas of the surface of the Earth. This can affect Earth’s temperature.
  • Increasing or decreasing temperatures, which can alter the distribution of snow and ice cover. By increasing snow and ice cover, especially at high latitudes, the reflection of sunlight can increase, which in turn decreases the amount of light that is absorbed by Earth’s surface.
  • Changes in the Earth system that are affected by snow and ice cover, including the carbon cycle, and how much carbon (including the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide) is transferred between the atmosphere, biosphere, and ocean.

'
Visit the solar radiation and Earth’s energy budget pages to learn more about how changes in the amount of energy in the Earth system can affect global processes and phenomena.

Earth's spin, tilt and orbit - Understanding Global Change​

ugc.berkeley.edu

 

[Billy_Bob]

Just wow... You all are stuck on stupid.

The modern theory of climate change understands climate thermodynamics but fails to understand the role of energy redistribution. When studying climate variables, scientists normally work with what are called “anomalies;” they are the residual of subtracting the “climatology,” or the average changes over 24-hour days and seasons in the variables studied. This point of view magnifies small interannual variabilities but conceals the much larger seasonal changes. The result is that important seasonal changes in atmospheric and oceanic energy redistribution are usually ignored. The error is compounded because net energy transport within the climate system, if integrated for the entire planet, is zero (energy lost at one place is gained in another). Redistribution of energy by transport processes doesn’t matter to most scientists in terms of changing the global climate. To them, the TOA over the dark pole in winter is no different than the daylight tropical TOA, except in the absolute magnitude of the annually averaged energy flux. This narrow view obstructs a proper understanding of climate change.

Please read and quit attacking individuals.

The Sun-Climate Effect: The Winter Gatekeeper Hypothesis (VI). Meridional transport is the main climate change driver

by Javier Vinós & Andy May “No philosopher has been able with his own strength to lift this veil stretched by nature over all the first principles of things. Men argue, nature acts.&#8221…

wattsupwiththat.com

 

[Billy_Bob]

About those complex variations....​

​

Earth’s Spin, Tilt and Orbit​

Earth’s spin, tilt, and orbit Affect the amount of solar energy received by any particular region of the globe, depending on latitude, time of day, and time of year. Small changes in the angle of Earth’s tilt and the shape of its orbit around the Sun Cause Changes in Climate over a span of 10,000 to 100,000 years, and are Not Causing climate change today.

Daily changes in light and temperature are caused by the rotation of the Earth, and seasonal changes are caused by the tilt of the Earth. As the Earth orbits the Sun, the Earth is pulled by the gravitational forces of the Sun, Moon, and large planets in the solar system, primarily Jupiter and Saturn. Over long periods of time, the gravitational pull of other members of our solar system slowly change Earth’s spin, tilt, and orbit. Over approximately 100,000 – 400,000 years, gravitational forces slowly change Earth’s orbit between more circular and elliptical shapes, as indicated by the blue and yellow dashed ovals in the figure to the right.

Over 19,000 – 24,000 years, the direction of Earth’s tilt shifts (spins). Additionally, how much Earth’s axis is tilted towards or away from the Sun changes through time, over approximately 41,000 year cycles. Small changes in Earth’s spin, tilt, and orbit over these long periods of time can change the amount of sunlight received (and therefore absorbed and re-radiated) by different parts of the Earth. Over 10s to 100s of thousands of years, these small changes in the position of the Earth in relationship to the Sun can change the amount of solar radiation, also known as insolation, received by different parts of the Earth. In turn, changes in insolation over these long periods of time can change regional climates and the length and intensity of the seasons. The Earth’s spin, tilt, and orbit continue to change today, but do Not explain the Current Rapid climate change.


Adapted from Universe Today.

Changes in insolation result in cycles of ice ages, during which ice sheets expand (glacial periods) and contract (interglacial periods). These patterns of ice ages, also called Milankovitch cycles, were predicted by the Serbian scientist Milutin Milankovitch. Milankovitch predicted that glacial periods occur during times of low summer insolation at high latitudes in the northern hemisphere, which would allow ice sheets to remain from year to year without melting. Subsequently, scientists have found extensive evidence of Milankovitch cycles preserved in the geologic record, especially in layers of sediment and fossils in ocean basins that preserve chemical changes in the ocean and atmosphere during glacial and interglacial periods. Although a major cause of change over long periods of time in the past, Earth’s spin, tilt and orbit changes so slowly that it is not a cause of global warming and climate change today.
Changes in Earth’s spin, tilt, and orbit have affected the Earth system in the past on various scales. Some of these ways include:

• • Increasing or decreasing amount of sunlight that is absorbed by different areas of the surface of the Earth. This can affect Earth’s temperature.
  • Increasing or decreasing temperatures, which can alter the distribution of snow and ice cover. By increasing snow and ice cover, especially at high latitudes, the reflection of sunlight can increase, which in turn decreases the amount of light that is absorbed by Earth’s surface.
  • Changes in the Earth system that are affected by snow and ice cover, including the carbon cycle, and how much carbon (including the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide) is transferred between the atmosphere, biosphere, and ocean.

'
Visit the solar radiation and Earth’s energy budget pages to learn more about how changes in the amount of energy in the Earth system can affect global processes and phenomena.

Earth's spin, tilt and orbit - Understanding Global Change​

ugc.berkeley.edu

Nice cut and paste... But it's wrong. This is only a minor part of what is going on.

 

[abu afak]

Nice cut and paste... But it's wrong. This is only a minor part of what is going on.

We'll take you word for it boob.
I blew you off this mb long ago.
`

 

[Crick]

Just wow... You all are stuck on stupid.


Please read and quit attacking individuals.

The Sun-Climate Effect: The Winter Gatekeeper Hypothesis (VI). Meridional transport is the main climate change driver

by Javier Vinós & Andy May “No philosopher has been able with his own strength to lift this veil stretched by nature over all the first principles of things. Men argue, nature acts.&#8221…

wattsupwiththat.com

Given that the planet as a whole is increasing in temperature the energy level within the system is increasing and thus the complete integration of energy transport within is not going to be zero; unless you want to ignore that troubling wee point.