Paradoxical Earth.. Complex responses often misinterpreted...

[Billy_Bob]

And as usual the liar cook is wrong again...

That chart just shows surface mass balance, which is snowfall minus melt. Snowfall is increasing due to warmer air holding more moisture, which the chart shows.

However, the chart does _not_ include glacier calving, which has accelerated massively, and which is causing the ice loss to accelerate.

By leaving that out, Billy is lying by omission.

He may or may not have known that. But he knows it now, and he'll still lie about it deliberately. Cook is scrupulously honest, while Billy and pals are all pathological liars.

LOL

You missed that the ice deposited is 300 times the ice loss this year alone.... But then your agenda is paramount so lying about it is OK for you...

Silly little twit, ice does not get deposited. Snow does, and if it does not melt, over the years it become compressed to ice. And that figure you just gave is just plain insane. LOL

Reduced to picking fly specks out of the pepper...how sad for you..

I spent three hours and a power point presentation in front of a group of PhD's and Grad students on the Paradoxical Presentation this week. You want to talk picking pepper specks... The two hours following the presentation was very enlightening as 90% of those who actively (on a daily basis) deal in atmospheric physics agreed with me. Only a partisan few were adamantly opposed and refused to even discuss their opposition.

The following three days of class time was spent going over pressure gradients and mass/energy calculations proving my assertions.

The highlight of one of the conversations with two PhD's was the question of 'how does the earth actually cool?', again showing the math on energy movement from equator pole-ward and release. The major component of which is, energy residency time, in the individual molecules of the atmosphere. When you do the math and proportion it to the mass of the atmosphere there is little warming that CO2 can do and depending on the thickness of the atmosphere above poles this can be decreased to near zero. Our current 0.1-0.2 deg C of warming attributed to CO2, which is currently observed, is right on the money.

The complexity of the problems to try and model are huge and change at about every 10deg of Latitude as the mass makeup of the atmosphere changes slightly as you go higher in latitude due to weight of the molecules, Coriolis rotation effect, water vapor content and the magnetic form of earth's layered bands.

One agreement I was able to obtain was that CO2's roll has been severely overstated and that the science has never been done correctly...

Were making progress in scientific circles as more and more experts are now open to constructive debate and differing explanations for what we observe..

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL Silly Billy, you are a liar, worse even than Trump. There is no misinterpretation of your ignorance of science, nor your constant pulling of 'stinky fact' out of your ample ass. We know how the earth warms and cools, and we know that right now it is rapidly warming due to the GHGs that we have and are putting into the atmosphere.

UAH Global Temperature Update for January, 2018: +0.26 deg. C « Roy Spencer, PhD

 

[Billy_Bob]

Old Fraud is so wrong on so many levels..

Here are few real scientists who understand the earths presentation and how it is driven...

Lubin and colleagues David Tytler and Carl Melis of UC San Diego’s Center for Astrophysics and Space Sciences arrived at their estimate of a grand minimum’s intensity by reviewing nearly 20 years of data gathered by the International Ultraviolet Explorer satellite mission. They compared radiation from stars that are analogous to the Sun and identified those that were experiencing minima.

The reduced energy from the Sun sets into motion a sequence of events on Earth beginning with a thinning of the stratospheric ozone layer. That thinning in turn changes the temperature structure of the stratosphere, which then changes the dynamics of the lower atmosphere, especially wind and weather patterns. The cooling is not uniform. While areas of Europe chilled during the Maunder Minimum, other areas such as Alaska and southern Greenland warmed correspondingly.

Lubin and other scientists predict a significant probability of a near-future grand minimum because the downward sunspot pattern in recent solar cycles resembles the run-ups to past grand minimum events.

The next 60 years is going to be a real eye opener for you alarmists...

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/2041-8213/aaa124

2nd source

 

[Old Rocks]

Study: Reduced Energy from the Sun Might Occur by Mid-century – cooling the climate

Despite how much the Maunder Minimum might have affected Earth the last time, Lubin said that an upcoming event would not stop the current trend of planetary warming but might slow it somewhat. The cooling effect of a grand minimum is only a fraction of the warming effect caused by the increasing concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. After hundreds of thousands of years of CO2 levels never exceeding 300 parts per million in air, the concentration of the greenhouse gas is now over 400 parts per million, continuing a rise that began with the Industrial Revolution. Other researchers have used computer models to estimate what an event similar to a Maunder Minimum, if it were to occur in coming decades, might mean for our current climate, which is now rapidly warming.

Study: Reduced Energy from the Sun Might Occur by Mid-century – cooling the climate

Silly Billy, your own source says you are full of shit. The scientists are predicting that it might slow the warming down a bit. That might give us a bit more breathing space, but not much. And the reduction is in the ultraviolet range, they do not give a figure for the reduction of the TSI. I suspect it is far less than that of the UV.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Study: Reduced Energy from the Sun Might Occur by Mid-century – cooling the climate

Despite how much the Maunder Minimum might have affected Earth the last time, Lubin said that an upcoming event would not stop the current trend of planetary warming but might slow it somewhat. The cooling effect of a grand minimum is only a fraction of the warming effect caused by the increasing concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. After hundreds of thousands of years of CO2 levels never exceeding 300 parts per million in air, the concentration of the greenhouse gas is now over 400 parts per million, continuing a rise that began with the Industrial Revolution. Other researchers have used computer models to estimate what an event similar to a Maunder Minimum, if it were to occur in coming decades, might mean for our current climate, which is now rapidly warming.

Study: Reduced Energy from the Sun Might Occur by Mid-century – cooling the climate

Silly Billy, your own source says you are full of shit. The scientists are predicting that it might slow the warming down a bit. That might give us a bit more breathing space, but not much. And the reduction is in the ultraviolet range, they do not give a figure for the reduction of the TSI. I suspect it is far less than that of the UV.

LOL

You and never doing the math...Do you ever check to see if what they say and what the evidence says are in concert? Tell me moron, which is more important as to energy that the earth can absorb?

Again you took the razor sharp scissor SKS talking points and ran with them...

 

[Old Rocks]

Look, Silly, that was your source. And they clearly stated that the reduction in UV by the sun would only slow the warming a bit. Deal with it yourself.

We are past 410 ppm CO2 and 1850 ppb CH4. Normal would be 280 ppm of CO2 and about 700 ppb of CH4. So we are committed to a rapid warming for centuries.

 

[skookerasbil]

Look, Silly, that was your source. And they clearly stated that the reduction in UV by the sun would only slow the warming a bit. Deal with it yourself.

We are past 410 ppm CO2 and 1850 ppb CH4. Normal would be 280 ppm of CO2 and about 700 ppb of CH4. So we are committed to a rapid warming for centuries.

as they say..........them there's the breaks!!

 

[Billy_Bob]

Look, Silly, that was your source. And they clearly stated that the reduction in UV by the sun would only slow the warming a bit. Deal with it yourself.

We are past 410 ppm CO2 and 1850 ppb CH4. Normal would be 280 ppm of CO2 and about 700 ppb of CH4. So we are committed to a rapid warming for centuries.

Again you do not have the math to back up your assertions..

Can you tell me why the earth has a upper and lower limit of temperature range (12deg C) for its entire life span?

 

[Old Rocks]

PT extinction event.

 

[Billy_Bob]

PT extinction event.

You know as well as I do that was not caused by CO2 increase...

EPIC FAIL!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

This is just the beginning..

No, it's more of your nonsense, and this time it's dumber than usual. The solar wind has zero effect on the troposphere and weather. Your diagrams of global wind patterns have nothing to do with the solar wind. Your fundamental failure here is your inability to grasp the difference between the magnetosphere and the atmosphere.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Billy can show us he's not crazy, by linking to the actual science that backs up his claim that the solar wind pushes the troposphere (and not the magnetosphere) away on the sunlit side of the earth.

SSDD, Darkwind, feel free to do so as well. You two are both kissing up to Billy here, which means you're endorsing his nutty theory as well. That means you're obligated to back it up as well, if you don't want to be thought of as mindless cult sheep. If you do want to be thought of that way, snarl and cry at me now without linking to any science.

"The solar wind has zero effect on the troposphere and weather...."

What????

 

[Billy_Bob]

This is just the beginning..

No, it's more of your nonsense, and this time it's dumber than usual. The solar wind has zero effect on the troposphere and weather. Your diagrams of global wind patterns have nothing to do with the solar wind. Your fundamental failure here is your inability to grasp the difference between the magnetosphere and the atmosphere.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Billy can show us he's not crazy, by linking to the actual science that backs up his claim that the solar wind pushes the troposphere (and not the magnetosphere) away on the sunlit side of the earth.

SSDD, Darkwind, feel free to do so as well. You two are both kissing up to Billy here, which means you're endorsing his nutty theory as well. That means you're obligated to back it up as well, if you don't want to be thought of as mindless cult sheep. If you do want to be thought of that way, snarl and cry at me now without linking to any science.

"The solar wind has zero effect on the troposphere and weather...."

What????

His ignorance is only surpassed by his useful idiotness...

 

[Indeependent]

This is just the beginning..

No, it's more of your nonsense, and this time it's dumber than usual. The solar wind has zero effect on the troposphere and weather. Your diagrams of global wind patterns have nothing to do with the solar wind. Your fundamental failure here is your inability to grasp the difference between the magnetosphere and the atmosphere.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Billy can show us he's not crazy, by linking to the actual science that backs up his claim that the solar wind pushes the troposphere (and not the magnetosphere) away on the sunlit side of the earth.

SSDD, Darkwind, feel free to do so as well. You two are both kissing up to Billy here, which means you're endorsing his nutty theory as well. That means you're obligated to back it up as well, if you don't want to be thought of as mindless cult sheep. If you do want to be thought of that way, snarl and cry at me now without linking to any science.

Perhaps you can provide a Link to substantiate your claim.

 

[Billy_Bob]

This is just the beginning..

No, it's more of your nonsense, and this time it's dumber than usual. The solar wind has zero effect on the troposphere and weather. Your diagrams of global wind patterns have nothing to do with the solar wind. Your fundamental failure here is your inability to grasp the difference between the magnetosphere and the atmosphere.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Billy can show us he's not crazy, by linking to the actual science that backs up his claim that the solar wind pushes the troposphere (and not the magnetosphere) away on the sunlit side of the earth.

SSDD, Darkwind, feel free to do so as well. You two are both kissing up to Billy here, which means you're endorsing his nutty theory as well. That means you're obligated to back it up as well, if you don't want to be thought of as mindless cult sheep. If you do want to be thought of that way, snarl and cry at me now without linking to any science.

Perhaps you can provide a Link to substantiate your claim.

It can not. There is so much evidence that it physically does affect our atmosphere out there that his bloviation is just that, bloviation. Lots of hot air and no substance.

 

[Billy_Bob]

One of the funny things about paradoxical presentation is the "stall" of storms and storm systems. The blocking High pressures that form, in a cooling environment, like to do things massively to areas. The troughs that form adjacent to them create massive amounts of rain and snow. California is about to experience one...

6 to 8 feet of snow forecast for California mountains

 

[Billy_Bob]

The bloviation of alarmists is stunning.. They just cant wrap their heads around why the earth presents opposite how they think it should.

A Warming arctic must take into account what the rest of the globe is doing, yet they do not. They get tunnel vision and miss reality.

 

[Billy_Bob]

East coast getting another dose of reality... more of the paradox presenting itself..

 

[Billy_Bob]

Mother Nature plays April Fools Joke on Alarmists..

10 Day forecasts show the NH will remain below normal by about 7-10 deg F for the foreseeable future. The Polar jet remains stronger than the equatorial jet so it will continue to dominate the weather patterns.

Its going to be a real wet and crazy spring time with low temps and snow in the forecast for most of the US above the 43 Latitude. Definitely going to be active in Tornado Alley with the troughs that have formed and solidified.

 

[Billy_Bob]

The Paradox continues.. 67% of the northern hemisphere is -20 Deg F below normal. The Arctic is now above the average melt slope for 15% sea ice coverage and mass coverage is at 100% again.

And its April 6th.....

Continental US is 71% covered by ....... wait for it..........




SNOW

 

[Sunsettommy]

Study: Reduced Energy from the Sun Might Occur by Mid-century – cooling the climate

Despite how much the Maunder Minimum might have affected Earth the last time, Lubin said that an upcoming event would not stop the current trend of planetary warming but might slow it somewhat. The cooling effect of a grand minimum is only a fraction of the warming effect caused by the increasing concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. After hundreds of thousands of years of CO2 levels never exceeding 300 parts per million in air, the concentration of the greenhouse gas is now over 400 parts per million, continuing a rise that began with the Industrial Revolution. Other researchers have used computer models to estimate what an event similar to a Maunder Minimum, if it were to occur in coming decades, might mean for our current climate, which is now rapidly warming.

Study: Reduced Energy from the Sun Might Occur by Mid-century – cooling the climate

Silly Billy, your own source says you are full of shit. The scientists are predicting that it might slow the warming down a bit. That might give us a bit more breathing space, but not much. And the reduction is in the ultraviolet range, they do not give a figure for the reduction of the TSI. I suspect it is far less than that of the UV.

LOL

You and never doing the math...Do you ever check to see if what they say and what the evidence says are in concert? Tell me moron, which is more important as to energy that the earth can absorb?

Again you took the razor sharp scissor SKS talking points and ran with them...

Old Rocks doesn't seem to realize that there is little warm forcing power left to squeeze out of CO2, most of it was set in 500 million years ago when it was at the estimated 7,000 ppm level.

Here are but two of many published science papers showing low to very low CO2 sensitivity in a doubling of CO2:

Idso, 1998 (2X CO2 = ~0.4°C)

Over the course of the past 2 decades, I have analyzed a number of natural phenomena that reveal how Earth’s near-surface air temperature responds to surface radiative perturbations. These studies all suggest that a 300 to 600 ppm doubling of the atmosphere’s CO2 concentration could raise the planet’s mean surface air temperature by only about 0.4°C. Even this modicum of warming may never be realized, however, for it could be negated by a number of planetary cooling forces that are intensified by warmer temperatures and by the strengthening of biological processes that are enhanced by the same rise in atmospheric CO2 concentration that drives the warming.

and,

Holmes, 2018 (2XCO2 = -0.03°C)

Calculate for a doubling of CO2 from the pre-industrial level of 0.03% [300 ppm]: [formula found in text] Calculated temperature after doubling of CO2 to 0.06% [600 ppm] ≈ 288.11 K. Climate sensitivity to CO2 is ≈ 288.14 – 288.11 ≈ – 0.03 K.
The change would in fact be extremely small and difficult to estimate exactly, but would be of the order -0.03°C. That is, a hundred times smaller than the ‘likely’ climate sensitivity of 3°C cited in the IPCC’s reports, and also probably of the opposite sign [cooling]. Even that small number would likely be a maximum change, since if fossil fuels are burned to create the emitted CO2, then atmospheric O2 will also be consumed, reducing that gas in the atmosphere – and offsetting any temperature change generated by the extra CO2. This climate sensitivity is already so low that it would be impossible to detect or measure in the real atmosphere, even before any allowance is made for the consumption of atmospheric O2.

Many more HERE