Papa Obama's goals for fake global warming might mean $7/gal gas

[Midnight Marauder]

Why would demand for diesel increase enough to raise prices?

It wouldn't.

For one thing, we would be trucking a hell of alot less gasoline around!

People can buy cars powered by diesel - the demand for such vehicles would increase, driving up demand for diesel fuel.

Like it or not, Americans love their cars and the freedom of individual, comfortable, transportation with storage space.

China used to be largely a bicycle and walking culture - and they are converting to autos as fast as they are able. Why do you think that is?

Go ahead, ride your motorcycle - but don't insist that the rest of us do so as well just because it is your preference.

I've not done any such thing, straw man erector.

I have suggested a course of action that might require some compromises, some sacrifices, for a short time -- but would destroy enemies rapidly while greatly strengthening and enriching us, long-term. And wouldn't be cloaked in a false religion that's falsely cloaked as science.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Gasoline and Diesel are both made from oil. Plastic is actually a by product. Many many prices on many many items would rise very quickly.

Diesel is much, much cheaper to make from oil than gasoline is. And you still have your plastics.

Point is that you are not cutting the supply of gasline but the supply of Oil, which makes different end products. If the price of corn goes up how many end products will it affect?

The supply of oil wouldn't really be cut that much, only 15-20% at most. The enemies list is really pretty short.

This can be made up partly by stopping ALL of our oil exports! Yes that's right, we export domestic crude oil, for some odd reason. Lots of it.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

SFC Ollie,

He doesn't understand basic economics. That's the problem.

boe

Such irony.

The only thing you understand is economic dogma.

 

[SFC Ollie]

If we kept all our Domestic oil we would have roughly 55 to 60% of what we use everyday without imports. Now i forget where all that 40 to 45% comes from but a big chunk does come from Canada and Venezuela. Somehow it seems all oil goes into a global market so I'm not sure how we can say we get so much from such and such a place. But cutting supply of crude will raise prices on all things made from that crude.

 

[boedicca]

SFC Ollie,

He doesn't understand basic economics. That's the problem.

boe

Such irony.

The only thing you understand is economic dogma.

Indeed. The irony of someone who thinks a 567% increase in gasoline won't damage the economy and who believes diesel prices won't rise due to simple supply and demand dynamics lecturing anyone on economics is incredibly droll.

 

[Samson]

No one's talked about diesel fuel, only gasoline.

Why would demand for diesel increase enough to raise prices?

It wouldn't.

For one thing, we would be trucking a hell of alot less gasoline around!

Gasoline and Diesel are both made from oil. Plastic is actually a by product. Many many prices on many many items would rise very quickly.

Diesel is much, much cheaper to make from oil than gasoline is. And you still have your plastics.

SFC Ollie,

He doesn't understand basic economics. That's the problem.

boe

"Basic Economics?"

I'm not even certain he understands what the thread is about.

 

[boedicca]

"Basic Economics?"

I'm not even certain he understands what the thread is about.

I do believe you are onto something.

 

[uscitizen]

I'm IN favor of the real innovation it would spur, quickly.

Necessity isn't just the mother of invention, it's a mother all the way around.

I'm all in favor of innovation - driven by free market forces.

We have untold $T invested in petrol-based infrastructure - I'd rather see an evolutionary approach that doesn't destroy our economy. To think we can transform an economy as large as the U.S. (or the entire world) quickly is a utopian fantasy. The cost of that revolution would be incredibly bloody and destructive to human lives (with the poorest being most vulnerable).

Innovation dirven by free market forces means we develop something and China manufactures it and sells it back to us.

 

[Chris]

Republicans are always so afraid.

What a bunch of cowards.

There is energy all around us.

As Buckminster Fuller said, "There isn't an energy crisis, there is only a crisis of ignorance."

 

[CrusaderFrank]

To reduce CO2 how about we get rid of the Catalytic converters that make the CO2 in the first place?

Good lord, Frank. You are truly this stupid!

You keep saying that, yet you never seem to have anything else to say, except, "Hey its warmer someplace therefore Global Warming is fo'shizzle!!!"

Did you not know that Catalytic converters convert CO to CO2?

 

[Old Rocks]

Diesel is much, much cheaper to make from oil than gasoline is. And you still have your plastics.

Point is that you are not cutting the supply of gasline but the supply of Oil, which makes different end products. If the price of corn goes up how many end products will it affect?

The supply of oil wouldn't really be cut that much, only 15-20% at most. The enemies list is really pretty short.

This can be made up partly by stopping ALL of our oil exports! Yes that's right, we export domestic crude oil, for some odd reason. Lots of it.

That odd reason is, of course, that the wealthy make a great deal of money doing it. What the nation needs is irrelevant to them.

 

[Old Rocks]

To reduce CO2 how about we get rid of the Catalytic converters that make the CO2 in the first place?

Good lord, Frank. You are truly this stupid!

You keep saying that, yet you never seem to have anything else to say, except, "Hey its warmer someplace therefore Global Warming is fo'shizzle!!!"

Did you not know that Catalytic converters convert CO to CO2?

Has it not penetrated your skull yet that the gases coming out of the tailpipe that the catalytic convertor oxidizes would oxidize in the atmosphere over time, after doing damage to the biosphere.

Not just someplace warmer, most of the globe warmer.

 

[Old Rocks]

I'm IN favor of the real innovation it would spur, quickly.

Necessity isn't just the mother of invention, it's a mother all the way around.

I'm all in favor of innovation - driven by free market forces.

We have untold $T invested in petrol-based infrastructure - I'd rather see an evolutionary approach that doesn't destroy our economy. To think we can transform an economy as large as the U.S. (or the entire world) quickly is a utopian fantasy. The cost of that revolution would be incredibly bloody and destructive to human lives (with the poorest being most vulnerable).

Innovation dirven by free market forces means we develop something and China manufactures it and sells it back to us.

Yep. And we react by giving the very wealthy tax breaks for doing this, and telling our working citizens what lazy stupid people they are for not have jobs that pay wages that one can raise a family on.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Good lord, Frank. You are truly this stupid!

You keep saying that, yet you never seem to have anything else to say, except, "Hey its warmer someplace therefore Global Warming is fo'shizzle!!!"

Did you not know that Catalytic converters convert CO to CO2?

Has it not penetrated your skull yet that the gases coming out of the tailpipe that the catalytic convertor oxidizes would oxidize in the atmosphere over time, after doing damage to the biosphere.

Not just someplace warmer, most of the globe warmer.

Should we go ahead and convert all CO and C to CO2 since, over time, they will oxidize in the atmosphere?

Is the day ever going to come when you can show us in a laboratory how de minimus increases in CO2 cause instantaneous and cataclysmic changes in Earth climate?

Should be pretty fucking simple to demonstrate.

 

[Old Rocks]

If we kept all our Domestic oil we would have roughly 55 to 60% of what we use everyday without imports. Now i forget where all that 40 to 45% comes from but a big chunk does come from Canada and Venezuela. Somehow it seems all oil goes into a global market so I'm not sure how we can say we get so much from such and such a place. But cutting supply of crude will raise prices on all things made from that crude.

We import 70% of our oil. And all oil goes on the international market. So, while we get oil from Venezuela and Canada, if some other nation bids more, we must match that bid. And if a nation decides to not pump for a while, our economy will take a major hit as we bid for what is left on the market.

The longer we depend on imported energy, the deeper in debt this nation will be, and the less Security we have as a nation.

Study: ANWR oil would have little impact - Environment- msnbc.com

updated 6:45 p.m. PT, Tues., March. 16, 2004
WASHINGTON - Opening an Alaska wildlife refuge to oil development would only slightly reduce America’s dependence on imports and would lower oil prices by less than 50 cents a barrel, according to an analysis released Tuesday by the Energy Department.

The report, issued by the Energy Information Administration, or EIA, said that if Congress gave the go-ahead to pump oil from Alaska’s Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, the crude could begin flowing by 2013 and reach a peak of 876,000 barrels a day by 2025.

But even at peak production, the EIA analysis said, the United States would still have to import two-thirds of its oil, as opposed to an expected 70 percent if the refuge’s oil remained off the market.