Papa Obama's goals for fake global warming might mean $7/gal gas

[Midnight Marauder]

Define Unnecessary or Frivolous.

The little trip around the corner to the c-store for ice cream.

It's not that hard to think about unnecessary and frivolous driving and come up with more examples.

Your definition of frivolous seems to be crushing the fun and joy out of life.

$20/gallon gasoline would cause lots of motorcycle, moped, bicycle and scooter buying, spurring the economy. Folks would use the car only when absolutely necessary, unclogging the streets and highways and greatly reducing deaths on same. Also, greatly reducing maintenance costs for same.

And increasing the death rate as people adopt forms which provide no protection in the case of an accident.

There is nothing stopping people who wish to use motorcycles, mopeds, scooters, and bicycles from doing so now. Forcing the rest to adopt methods they do not prefer by manipulating the price of gasoline beyond natural market forces is just social engineering. Which begs the question, who should decide when and how to socially engineer our society?

Given the values of those who are generally most eager to drive the social engineering policy (cf, progressives), I say no thank you.

Nothing would be "forced."

You act like there's a right to drive a car. There isn't.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Define Unnecessary or Frivolous.

The little trip around the corner to the c-store for ice cream.

It's not that hard to think about unnecessary and frivolous driving and come up with more examples.

Your definition of frivolous seems to be crushing the fun and joy out of life.

It's more fun and joyful to walk or ride a bike to the c-store for ice cream.

 

[California Girl]

And while we're all waiting for these incredible innovations to push us away from gas.... can you imagine what will happen to basic prices of goods.... which need to be transported.

Buy Horses, Mules, and Oxen

I have a horse. But the price of goods is gonna go through the roof. For me, no a biggie, I grow a lot of my own. But if any poor people come knocking, they can go screw themselves for voting for this imbecile.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

But the price of goods is gonna go through the roof.

No, it is not. Addressed already.

 

[California Girl]

The little trip around the corner to the c-store for ice cream.

It's not that hard to think about unnecessary and frivolous driving and come up with more examples.

Your definition of frivolous seems to be crushing the fun and joy out of life.

It's more fun and joyful to walk or ride a bike to the c-store for ice cream.

And how far would that ice cream have to travel to the c-store.... and what extra cost would be involve in transporting it?

People need to think bigger than their stupid cars. The fucking transport system which feeds our nation would cause prices of even the most basic items to go thru the roof. But what the hell, people starve I'm sure that Obama will save them.... of course, there will be very little money because the price of gas is so high that thousands of businesses will go bankrupt.... rather thousands more businesses.

 

[boedicca]

You believe riding a motorcycle or scooter, or a bicycle is lower standard?

You are NOT thinking about this.

Yes I do (and I am thnking about it), for quite a few people giving up their automobiles is a lower standard (and I'm saying this as someone whose main form of transportation is taking public transit - BART).

Examples:
- people with long commutes, especially ones who need their cars to perform their jobs (sales and service reps)
- parents having to shuttle kids between home, school, and activities
- people who dislike getting soaking wet or freezing in inclement weather
- frail people (i.e., an elderly woman with osteoperosis for whom the risk of being disabled in a fall makes her wish for the security of some metal around her)

At bottom, we each have our own likes, dislikes, wants and needs. I don't wish to force others to make their personal decisions according to mine - nor do I wish to be forced in return.

Market forces, despite their lack of utopianism, have resulted in far better outcomes for far more people than top down control or meddlesome social engineering. If there is a market for alternate energy (I believe there is), then smart investors will apply capital. Many of us realize and expect that oil will become scarcer and more expensive over time. The incentive already exists to find economically viable substitutes. We don't need to trash the standard of living of the working and middle classes to prove it.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Your definition of frivolous seems to be crushing the fun and joy out of life.

It's more fun and joyful to walk or ride a bike to the c-store for ice cream.

And how far would that ice cream have to travel to the c-store.... and what extra cost would be involve in transporting it?

Clearly you're not paying much attention to what's posted. No one's talked about diesel fuel, only gasoline.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

You believe riding a motorcycle or scooter, or a bicycle is lower standard?

You are NOT thinking about this.

Yes I do (and I am thnking about it), for quite a few people giving up their automobiles is a lower standard (and I'm saying this as someone whose main form of transportation is taking public transit - BART).

Examples:
- people with long commutes, especially ones who need their cars to perform their jobs (sales and service reps)
- parents having to shuttle kids between home, school, and activities
- people who dislike getting soaking wet or freezing in inclement weather
- frail people (i.e., an elderly woman with osteoperosis for whom the risk of being disabled in a fall makes her wish for the security of some metal around her)

At bottom, we each have our own likes, dislikes, wants and needs. I don't wish to force others to make their personal decisions according to mine - nor do I wish to be forced in return.

Market forces, despite their lack of utopianism, have resulted in far better outcomes for far more people than top down control or meddlesome social engineering. If there is a market for alternate energy (I believe there is), then smart investors will apply capital. Many of us realize and expect that oil will become scarcer and more expensive over time. The incentive already exists to find economically viable substitutes. We don't need to trash the standard of living of the working and middle classes to prove it.

Again, you're disputing things I never said or even hinted at. This is called erecting a straw man.

Surely you can do better than this.

 

[boedicca]

Clearly you're not paying much attention to what's posted. No one's talked about diesel fuel, only gasoline.

Dude. What do you think would happen to the price of diesel if the price of regular gas rose to $20? You claimed you were against doing this via taxes - so unless you are going to heavily regulate prices, diesel is going to climb as well.

 

[boedicca]

You believe riding a motorcycle or scooter, or a bicycle is lower standard?

You are NOT thinking about this.

Yes I do (and I am thnking about it), for quite a few people giving up their automobiles is a lower standard (and I'm saying this as someone whose main form of transportation is taking public transit - BART).

Examples:
- people with long commutes, especially ones who need their cars to perform their jobs (sales and service reps)
- parents having to shuttle kids between home, school, and activities
- people who dislike getting soaking wet or freezing in inclement weather
- frail people (i.e., an elderly woman with osteoperosis for whom the risk of being disabled in a fall makes her wish for the security of some metal around her)

At bottom, we each have our own likes, dislikes, wants and needs. I don't wish to force others to make their personal decisions according to mine - nor do I wish to be forced in return.

Market forces, despite their lack of utopianism, have resulted in far better outcomes for far more people than top down control or meddlesome social engineering. If there is a market for alternate energy (I believe there is), then smart investors will apply capital. Many of us realize and expect that oil will become scarcer and more expensive over time. The incentive already exists to find economically viable substitutes. We don't need to trash the standard of living of the working and middle classes to prove it.

Again, you're disputing things I never said or even hinted at. This is called erecting a straw man.

Surely you can do better than this.

An oft used claim by those who disdain the rights of others.

But thanks for playing.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Clearly you're not paying much attention to what's posted. No one's talked about diesel fuel, only gasoline.

Dude. What do you think would happen to the price of diesel if the price of regular gas rose to $20? You claimed you were against doing this via taxes - so unless you are going to heavily regulate prices, diesel is going to climb as well.

Wrong.

Diesel would be a cheap commodity. You actually believe there's a 1:1 relationship between gasoline and diesel production?

And remember, our stopping imports from enemies would quickly crush them, making the situation very short-term.

Well worth it too.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Yes I do (and I am thnking about it), for quite a few people giving up their automobiles is a lower standard (and I'm saying this as someone whose main form of transportation is taking public transit - BART).

Examples:
- people with long commutes, especially ones who need their cars to perform their jobs (sales and service reps)
- parents having to shuttle kids between home, school, and activities
- people who dislike getting soaking wet or freezing in inclement weather
- frail people (i.e., an elderly woman with osteoperosis for whom the risk of being disabled in a fall makes her wish for the security of some metal around her)

At bottom, we each have our own likes, dislikes, wants and needs. I don't wish to force others to make their personal decisions according to mine - nor do I wish to be forced in return.

Market forces, despite their lack of utopianism, have resulted in far better outcomes for far more people than top down control or meddlesome social engineering. If there is a market for alternate energy (I believe there is), then smart investors will apply capital. Many of us realize and expect that oil will become scarcer and more expensive over time. The incentive already exists to find economically viable substitutes. We don't need to trash the standard of living of the working and middle classes to prove it.

Again, you're disputing things I never said or even hinted at. This is called erecting a straw man.

Surely you can do better than this.

An oft used claim by those who disdain the rights of others.

But thanks for playing.

You've shown no rights being violated.

Another straw man! Congrats!

 

[boedicca]

Wrong.

Diesel would be a cheap commodity. You actually believe there's a 1:1 relationship between gasoline and diesel production?

And remember, our stopping imports from enemies would quickly crush them, making the situation very short-term.

Well worth it too.

You are nuts. Diesel prices will rise as demand increases.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Wrong.

Diesel would be a cheap commodity. You actually believe there's a 1:1 relationship between gasoline and diesel production?

And remember, our stopping imports from enemies would quickly crush them, making the situation very short-term.

Well worth it too.

You are nuts. Diesel prices will rise as demand increases.

Why would demand for diesel increase enough to raise prices?

It wouldn't.

For one thing, we would be trucking a hell of alot less gasoline around!

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Doing as I suggest would crush our enemies in 2-3 years, causing regime change rapidly and in the meantime, strengthening us greatly as we adapt.

See?

 

[SFC Ollie]

Wrong.

Diesel would be a cheap commodity. You actually believe there's a 1:1 relationship between gasoline and diesel production?

And remember, our stopping imports from enemies would quickly crush them, making the situation very short-term.

Well worth it too.

You are nuts. Diesel prices will rise as demand increases.

Why would demand for diesel increase enough to raise prices?

It wouldn't.

For one thing, we would be trucking a hell of alot less gasoline around!

Gasoline and Diesel are both made from oil. Plastic is actually a by product. Many many prices on many many items would rise very quickly.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

You are nuts. Diesel prices will rise as demand increases.

Why would demand for diesel increase enough to raise prices?

It wouldn't.

For one thing, we would be trucking a hell of alot less gasoline around!

Gasoline and Diesel are both made from oil. Plastic is actually a by product. Many many prices on many many items would rise very quickly.

Diesel is much, much cheaper to make from oil than gasoline is. And you still have your plastics.

 

[boedicca]

Why would demand for diesel increase enough to raise prices?

It wouldn't.

For one thing, we would be trucking a hell of alot less gasoline around!

People can buy cars powered by diesel - the demand for such vehicles would increase, driving up demand, and hence, prices for diesel fuel.

Like it or not, Americans love their cars and the freedom of individual, comfortable, transportation with storage space.

China used to be largely a bicycle and walking culture - and they are converting to autos as fast as they are able. Why do you think that is?

Go ahead, ride your motorcycle - but don't insist that the rest of us do so as well just because it is your preference.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Why would demand for diesel increase enough to raise prices?

It wouldn't.

For one thing, we would be trucking a hell of alot less gasoline around!

Gasoline and Diesel are both made from oil. Plastic is actually a by product. Many many prices on many many items would rise very quickly.

Diesel is much, much cheaper to make from oil than gasoline is. And you still have your plastics.

Point is that you are not cutting the supply of gasline but the supply of Oil, which makes different end products. If the price of corn goes up how many end products will it affect?

 

[boedicca]

SFC Ollie,

He doesn't understand basic economics. That's the problem.

boe