Pansy Blue Helmet

[archangel]

Well, what do you think. Should enlistment be seperate?

ask shattered or kathy...I know nothing!

 

[Shattered]

ask shattered or kathy...I know nothing!

Good grief. Shut the hell up and stop pouting.

 

[archangel]

Good grief. Shut the hell up and stop pouting.

I just turned it over to the experts..I know nothing!...now you answer her question...now is your chance to shine!

 

[GotZoom]

I know nothing

I loved watching Hogan's Heroes.

 

[archangel]

I loved watching Hogan's Heroes.

der Geist der stets verneint....'the spirt that ever denies' this is what I see ....I really loved that funny guy too( SGT Schultz)...funny stuff but how so true! 'I know nothing' words to live by in here!

 

[manu1959]

That's not exactly what I mean. An international peace keeping/military force woudn't be needed if we could all get along.

neither would a police force...or judges....or referees....but people cheat

 

[Johnney]

there was some fiasco about this a few years ago. a soldier refused to wear the blue cover. nto sure how it turned out though.

 

[pegwinn]

there was some fiasco about this a few years ago. a soldier refused to wear the blue cover. nto sure how it turned out though.

Check this out.

So, is everyone advocating that you can walk to recruiters row and see......

US ARMY
US NAVY
US AIRFORCE
US MARINES
UN PEACEKEEPERS

all in a row? Kinda like the foreign legion? Wow, what a concept.

 

[Johnney]

foreign officers and what ever else foreign do not need to be in charge of your men and women in uniform. its retarded. historic my fat hairy ass.

 

[archangel]

Check this out.

So, is everyone advocating that you can walk to recruiters row and see......

US ARMY
US NAVY
US AIRFORCE
US MARINES
UN PEACEKEEPERS

all in a row? Kinda like the foreign legion? Wow, what a concept.

Having served in the US Army as a enlisted as well as Jr.Ofcr..I support this young mans protest...IMO he is absolutely right and I can only pray that congress will take this issue up and follow through...I was never placed in this postition,but would have taken his approach had I! (risking being called a pompas ass!)

 

[Gunny]

I was on I&I duty in Oklahoma City back in 1988 and our I&I got orders to the multinational force in Cambodia. Apparently there are two types of orders to UN postings. Individual PCS are classed as Joint Duty and normally reserved for Officers getting a ticket punched. Unit orders are treated as UDP. Remember SPC New from the Army a while back? His cause was just but he got hammered for disobeying American orders if memory serves.

You are correct. I believe he is STILL fighting the issue.

And I know all too well the "disobeying and order" blanket the military throws around.

My question concerns the legitimacy of THAT order. Technically, one would assume it is a lawful order since the military has punished at least this one guy for it.

Ethically, I am not so sure it is a lawful order. When we sign the dotted line and raise our right hands we swear to serve the US and protect the US against all enemies.

My argument is that if one is suddenly handed off to an organization that is not the US nor does it represent the US nor its interests, does that not change the parameters of the bargain made between the individual and the government?

 

[MissileMan]

You are correct. I believe he is STILL fighting the issue.

And I know all too well the "disobeying and order" blanket the military throws around.

My question concerns the legitimacy of THAT order. Technically, one would assume it is a lawful order since the military has punished at least this one guy for it.

Ethically, I am not so sure it is a lawful order. When we sign the dotted line and raise our right hands we swear to serve the US and protect the US against all enemies.

My argument is that if one is suddenly handed off to an organization that is not the US nor does it represent the US nor its interests, does that not change the parameters of the bargain made between the individual and the government?

While I don't think a US soldier should be under control of a UN commander, I believe the oath also includes "follow the orders of the officer's over me and the orders of the President". It doesn't state that the order can't be "go over here and follow the orders of this UN commander".

 

[Gunny]

While I don't think a US soldier should be under control of a UN commander, I believe the oath also includes "follow the orders of the officer's over me and the orders of the President". It doesn't state that the order can't be "go over here and follow the orders of this UN commander".

Again, I am not disagreeing with whether or not miltiary personnel are required to obey orders. I am questioning the legality of the order itself to serve an organization that the individual did not sign up to serve.

The UN, ineffectual corrupt organization that it is, is STILL a poltical entity with a mind of its own that does not necessarily reflect the interests of the US.

Yes, you swear to obey all orders given by superiors. You are however compelled by military law to refuse to obey unlawful orders.

 

[pegwinn]

I don't know. SPC New attempted to prove the orders were both unlawful from a military perspective and unconstitutional to boot. The court martial judge disagreed because the specific orders New disobeyed came from American lips. Unlike civilian courts, courts martial tend to ignore the big picture and focus on the specifics of the crime at ground zero. Likely a civil court might've acquitted him. If not, then one of the appellate courts would've overturned it. I think after the CM his next step was court of mil appeals then USSC.

Bottom line is so long as we are member nation, the USA will likely be helping the UN. Worse news is that using convoluted thinking, our politicians will more often put our guys under command of foreigners. Situation sux.

 

[Gunny]

I don't know. SPC New attempted to prove the orders were both unlawful from a military perspective and unconstitutional to boot. The court martial judge disagreed because the specific orders New disobeyed came from American lips. Unlike civilian courts, courts martial tend to ignore the big picture and focus on the specifics of the crime at ground zero. Likely a civil court might've acquitted him. If not, then one of the appellate courts would've overturned it. I think after the CM his next step was court of mil appeals then USSC.

Bottom line is so long as we are member nation, the USA will likely be helping the UN. Worse news is that using convoluted thinking, our politicians will more often put our guys under command of foreigners. Situation sux.

Can't disagree with your assessment, and I'm aware of the current reality. I was just wondering what other people's opinions on the subject are.

I'm all for NOT being a member nation.

 

[pegwinn]

I think we all agree that the UN has the approximate value of a bucket of used vomit. We each concur that putting on the blue beret not only makes us look french, but a fairy sort of french that tinkerbell would make fun of. I hope that eventually the UN will return to the values that caused us to found them anyway. Or we will have to evict em.

 

[nosarcasm]

as a soldier you follow orders.

If your country decide that you have to attack country Y then you do it.

If you country decides you wear a blue helmet because of diplomatic
deals made elsewhere you do it.

Pick and choose soldiers need a bullet to the neck.
Joseph got that right.

 

[theim]

The thing is that it should never be ordered. An American putting on that blue helmet is the equivelent of an American soldier declaring himself an inept child-rapist who will run away at the first hint of trouble.

 

[Gunny]

as a soldier you follow orders.

If your country decide that you have to attack country Y then you do it.

If you country decides you wear a blue helmet because of diplomatic
deals made elsewhere you do it.

Pick and choose soldiers need a bullet to the neck.
Joseph got that right.

I disagree, and there is nothing pick and choose about it. Pick and choose would be deciding whether or not I wish to participate in a war MY Nation is fighting.

The UN is NOT my Nation, nor does it represent the interests of my Nation. In fact, I still can't figure out why we even bother with the bunch of fags.

 

[Annie]

as a soldier you follow orders.

If your country decide that you have to attack country Y then you do it.

If you country decides you wear a blue helmet because of diplomatic
deals made elsewhere you do it.

Pick and choose soldiers need a bullet to the neck.
Joseph got that right.

An applaud if your country decides to 'withdraw' from the diplomatic organizations of 60 years ago, that have been a more than abyssmal failures...even if we had substantial involvement in the inception of such...