Palestinians test tactic of unarmed mass marches

[High_Gravity]

I think it would be good if these peaceful marches led to tangible progress towards a Palestine state. Not because I have a dog in the hunt, but because I think it would reinforce the message that peaceful demonstrations, not terrorism, wins out in the end.

Hamas cannot let these peaceful demonstrations bear fruit because it will show they were wrong all along and the Israelis will start to deal with the people in charge of the Peace movement and Hamas will be left in the cold, if these demonstrations start to show results you will start seeing car bombs going off and suicide bombers running around, and we will be right back where we started.

 

[Ropey]

^^ Word!

 

[Sheldon]

I think it would be good if these peaceful marches led to tangible progress towards a Palestine state. Not because I have a dog in the hunt, but because I think it would reinforce the message that peaceful demonstrations, not terrorism, wins out in the end.

Hamas cannot let these peaceful demonstrations bear fruit because it will show they were wrong all along and the Israelis will start to deal with the people in charge of the Peace movement and Hamas will be left in the cold, if these demonstrations start to show results you will start seeing car bombs going off and suicide bombers running around, and we will be right back where we started.

Unfortunately I think there's a lot of truth to that. Hamas has no incentive to see peace work. It only takes one person to piss in the pool and ruin it for everyone else.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

RAMALLAH, West Bank – Palestinian activists are calling it a preview of new tactics to pressure Israel and win world support for statehood: Masses of marchers, galvanized by the Arab Spring and brought together by Facebook, descending on borders and military posts — and daring Israeli soldiers to shoot.

It could prove more problematic for Israel than the suicide bombings and other deadly violence of the past — which the current Palestinian Authority leadership feels only tainted their cause.

After attempted border breaches from Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Gaza left 15 Palestinians dead Sunday, Israeli officials openly puzzled over how to handle an unfamiliar new phase.

"The Palestinians' transition from terrorism and suicide bombings to deliberately unarmed mass demonstrations is a transition that will present us with difficult challenges," said Defense Minister Ehud Barak.

"There is a new energy, a new dynamism," said Hanan Ashrawi, a former Palestinian negotiator. "The Palestinians feel they have put themselves on the map again."

Sunday's marches occurred on the day Palestinians mourn Israel's 1948 creation, when hundreds of thousands of their people were uprooted and scattered throughout the region.

Marking the anniversary, called the "nakba," Arabic for "catastrophe," Palestinian organizers bused hundreds to Lebanon's border with Israel and to the Syrian frontier in the Israeli-held Golan Heights. Surprised and overwhelmed, Israeli troops fired to keep the crowds from breaching the borders. Four Palestinians were killed in the Golan and 10 in Lebanon, while a 15th was fatally shot as dozens rushed Israel's border wall with the Gaza Strip.

Ex-general Yossi Peled, who commanded Israeli troops on the Lebanese and Syrian borders, said border breaches will likely be attempted again and must be stopped at any cost — regardless of the political fallout — because they pose a direct challenge to Israel's sovereignty.

"Yesterday's promo leaves us little time to draw the conclusions and come up with a new method of warfare where Israel will confront unarmed civilians, children and women," he said.

Palestinians test tactic of unarmed mass marches - Yahoo! News

If the Palestinians had had a GHANDI to follow they'd have won their cause for freedom and civil liberties decades ago.

They started down that route, I think in the late 50s early 60's, but didn't keep it up.

Instead the PLO started blowing up school buses and lost any hope of the world community getting behind them.

There have been many Ghandis in Palestine. Many are sitting in Israeli prisons. You never hear about them because all the lame stream media outlets report from Israel. Peace activists are off message from the demonization of Palestinians and do not get reported.

A peace activist ran against Abbas in 2005. Abbas was Israel's favored candidate. Israel and the US sold Abbas to the Palestinians as a man who would bring peace. Israel allowed him to travel freely to campaign. The peace candidate, however, was detained, beaten and arrested. He suffered a broken knee in one of these beatings. He still received 20% of the vote but no word about him in the news.

Ghandi's tactics require an audience. Without any news coverage, they are only preaching to the quire. Completely useless.

It's spelled "choir", not quire.

 

[High_Gravity]

I think it would be good if these peaceful marches led to tangible progress towards a Palestine state. Not because I have a dog in the hunt, but because I think it would reinforce the message that peaceful demonstrations, not terrorism, wins out in the end.

Hamas cannot let these peaceful demonstrations bear fruit because it will show they were wrong all along and the Israelis will start to deal with the people in charge of the Peace movement and Hamas will be left in the cold, if these demonstrations start to show results you will start seeing car bombs going off and suicide bombers running around, and we will be right back where we started.

Unfortunately I think there's a lot of truth to that. Hamas has no incentive to see peace work. It only takes one person to piss in the pool and ruin it for everyone else.

Thats basically what it comes down to, if these peaceful demonstrations start to yield results it will make Hamas look weak, Hamas wants to run the show and dictate the whole agenda for Palestinians, they will beat these peaceful demonstrators down themselves if thats what it takes.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Hamas cannot let these peaceful demonstrations bear fruit because it will show they were wrong all along and the Israelis will start to deal with the people in charge of the Peace movement and Hamas will be left in the cold, if these demonstrations start to show results you will start seeing car bombs going off and suicide bombers running around, and we will be right back where we started.

Unfortunately I think there's a lot of truth to that. Hamas has no incentive to see peace work. It only takes one person to piss in the pool and ruin it for everyone else.

Thats basically what it comes down to, if these peaceful demonstrations start to yield results it will make Hamas look weak, Hamas wants to run the show and dictate the whole agenda for Palestinians, they will beat these peaceful demonstrators down themselves if thats what it takes.

GAZA CITY (Ma'an) -- "We will insist on reconciliation, bolster steadfastness, and face occupation with unity," Gaza Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh said Wednesday, in response to statements made this week by his Israeli counterpart Benjamin Netanyahu.

"We must face Netanyahu’s remarks by enhancing steadfastness and resistance, and we should get out of the black mantle of the so-called negotiations," Haniyeh added.

He urged Palestinians in exile to "practice non-violent field activities" like those that took place on May 15, which saw thousands breach Israel's armistice line with Syria, demanding the realization of their right to return.

"Thousands approached the borders this year, so let it be millions next year," Haniyeh said.

Maan News Agency: Haniyeh: Unity in the face of Netanyahu

 

[SergeGainsbourg]

"Yesterday's promo leaves us little time to draw the conclusions and come up with a new method of warfare where Israel will confront unarmed civilians, children and women," he said.

Arab men hiding behind women and children is nothing new.

How would you differentiate these unarmed marches that include women and children from the civil rights protests of the 1960s in the US that also included women and children? Were the leaders of that movement hiding behind women and children also?

 

[SergeGainsbourg]

Here is a good take on it, I think.

Israel and Palestine: Here comes your non-violent resistance | The Economist

In any case, if you're among those who have made the argument that Israelis would give Palestinians a state if only the Palestinians would learn to employ Ghandhian tactics of non-violent protest, it appears your moment of truth has arrived. As my colleague writes, what happened on Nakba Day was Israel's "nightmare scenario: masses of Palestinians marching, unarmed, towards the borders of the Jewish state, demanding the redress of their decades-old national grievance." Peter Beinart writes that this represents "Israel's Palestinian Arab Spring": the tactics of mass non-violent protest that brought down the governments of Tunisia and Egypt, and are threatening to bring down those of Libya, Yemen and Syria, are now being used in the Palestinian cause.

I think it is very important to differentiate between the illegal occupation of the West Bank and the borders of the state of Israel. The right inside Israel does not make any differentiation and I think they do a disservice to Israel's interests by neglecting to do so.

Every sovereign state has the right to defend its borders from those seeking to cross. This is especially true when the border is to a state that is technically at war with Israel. The protestors seeking to cross into Israel were seeking the "right to return." I (and President Abbas) feel it is unfair to ask Israel to take more than a token amount of refugees from other lands and that any final agreement with the Palestinians should allow for these refugees to have the chance to resettle in the West Bank or Gaza--not Israel proper.

Meanwhile for the past 44 years, Palestinian terrorism has provided Israel with the excuse to continue occupy the West Bank which they have settled with Israelis who have proved to be somewhat intransigent about the idea of leaving as part of a future peace accord. Furthermore, Israel has had to build its security fence/wall in order to legitimately protect itself from suicide bombers in the West Bank. But they way it was built furthered the idea that the wall was just a land grab creating a de facto border.

By abandoning violent resistance, which has proved not only futile but counterproductive and embracing Gandhi, the Palestinians can put enormous pressure on Israel. Furthermore, their desire for UN recognition is ultimately good for Israel. Diplomatic options as an alternative to negotiations (which are stalled because the Israeli government is not a partner for peace) is better than violence (unless you're on the right and want Palestinian violence so that you can take more of their land).

The Palestinians now have many good options. First, September will be here shortly. I believe they will gain UN recognition and not much will change, except Israel will become more and more isolated if they continue their present course of intransigence. Therefore, continued peaceful resistance to Israel, such as refusing to allow its people to work on settlements and the building of a Palestinian economy separate from Israel, will lead good places. If it doesn't, they can always disband their government and demand to become citizens of Israel with the right to an equal vote. If they voted as a block, they would be the largest single political group in the Knesset.

 

[SergeGainsbourg]

Hamas cannot let these peaceful demonstrations bear fruit because it will show they were wrong all along and the Israelis will start to deal with the people in charge of the Peace movement and Hamas will be left in the cold, if these demonstrations start to show results you will start seeing car bombs going off and suicide bombers running around, and we will be right back where we started.

Unfortunately I think there's a lot of truth to that. Hamas has no incentive to see peace work. It only takes one person to piss in the pool and ruin it for everyone else.

Thats basically what it comes down to, if these peaceful demonstrations start to yield results it will make Hamas look weak, Hamas wants to run the show and dictate the whole agenda for Palestinians, they will beat these peaceful demonstrators down themselves if thats what it takes.

The suicide bombs have not stopped because of a want of trying. They stopped because the Israelis built the wall and improved their security cooperation with the PA. (And they walled off Gaza).

 

[docmauser1]

I think it is very important to differentiate between the illegal occupation of the West Bank and the borders of the state of Israel. The right inside Israel does not make any differentiation and I think they do a disservice to Israel's interests by neglecting to do so.

That's, of course, a common lefto-comrade delusion that falsely assumes there had a been a legitimate sovereign that was allegedly ousted. The closest phenomenon is activist judges, writing law on the go to suit their ideology.

 

[SergeGainsbourg]

I think it is very important to differentiate between the illegal occupation of the West Bank and the borders of the state of Israel. The right inside Israel does not make any differentiation and I think they do a disservice to Israel's interests by neglecting to do so.

That's, of course, a common lefto-comrade delusion that falsely assumes there had a been a legitimate sovereign that was allegedly ousted. The closest phenomenon is activist judges, writing law on the go to suit their ideology.

This sounds pretty ideological to me. I'm not sure I even begin to understand your statement.

 

[docmauser1]

I think it is very important to differentiate between the illegal occupation of the West Bank and the borders of the state of Israel. The right inside Israel does not make any differentiation and I think they do a disservice to Israel's interests by neglecting to do so.

That's, of course, a common lefto-comrade delusion that falsely assumes there had a been a legitimate sovereign that was allegedly ousted. The closest phenomenon is activist judges, writing law on the go to suit their ideology.

This sounds pretty ideological to me.

Those evil judges.

I'm not sure I even begin to understand your statement.

That's not surprising, it isn't palistanian agitprop, after all.