Palestinians say they may have no choice but to take Israel to Hague court

[P F Tinmore]

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The Palestinians declared Wednesday that they will have no choice but to complain about Israel to the International Criminal Court if the Jewish state proceeds with plans to build housing on land the Palestinians want for a future state.

Speaking to reporters after a meeting of the U.N. Security Council on the Middle East, Palestinian Foreign Minister Riad Malki said his government's decision will largely depend on what the Israelis do with the so-called "E1" area outside the Arab suburbs of East Jerusalem.

"If Israel would like to go further by implementing the E1 (settlement) plan and the other related plans around Jerusalem then yes, we will be going to the ICC," he said. "We have no other choice. It depends on the Israeli decision."

Approximately 500,000 Israelis and 2.5 million Palestinians live in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. The United Nations deems all Israeli settlements in the West Bank to be illegal.

Palestinians say they may have no choice but to take Israel to Hague court - Yahoo! News

 

[Indofred]

Sounds fair.
Israel is doing something illegal so court action is reasonable.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Better to have an organized method..... ....I like this.

 

[RoccoR]

Indofred, et al,

Yes, there would seem to be a prima facie case that Israel is pursuing an unlawful action, and that the UN (Security Council) should issue a "cease and desist" order by resolution, backed by economic sanctions if necessary.

Sounds fair.
Israel is doing something illegal so court action is reasonable.

(COMMENT)

I think this needs a fair hearing.

(viii) The transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, or the deportation or transfer of all or parts of the population of the occupied territory within or outside this territory;
SOURCE: Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court

Having said that, you can (with some degree of confidence) count on the US to do the "wrong" thing here. The US will try to, yet again, run interference for Israel in the UN.

How the US responds will reaffirm whether it is an honest broker on the "Rule of Law." ( What is the rule of law? )

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Indofred, et al,

Yes, there would seem to be a prima facie case that Israel is pursuing an unlawful action, and that the UN (Security Council) should issue a "cease and desist" order by resolution, backed by economic sanctions if necessary.

Sounds fair.
Israel is doing something illegal so court action is reasonable.

(COMMENT)

I think this needs a fair hearing.

(viii) The transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, or the deportation or transfer of all or parts of the population of the occupied territory within or outside this territory;
SOURCE: Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court

Having said that, you can (with some degree of confidence) count on the US to do the "wrong" thing here. The US will try to, yet again, run interference for Israel in the UN.

How the US responds will reaffirm whether it is an honest broker on the "Rule of Law." ( What is the rule of law? )

Most Respectfully,
R

Good post.

And Israel has been violating international law since before its declaration of independence.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The Palestinians declared Wednesday that they will have no choice but to complain about Israel to the International Criminal Court if the Jewish state proceeds with plans to build housing on land the Palestinians want for a future state.

Speaking to reporters after a meeting of the U.N. Security Council on the Middle East, Palestinian Foreign Minister Riad Malki said his government's decision will largely depend on what the Israelis do with the so-called "E1" area outside the Arab suburbs of East Jerusalem.

"If Israel would like to go further by implementing the E1 (settlement) plan and the other related plans around Jerusalem then yes, we will be going to the ICC," he said. "We have no other choice. It depends on the Israeli decision."

Approximately 500,000 Israelis and 2.5 million Palestinians live in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. The United Nations deems all Israeli settlements in the West Bank to be illegal.

Palestinians say they may have no choice but to take Israel to Hague court - Yahoo! News

What are they waiting for? I think this is a test for The Palestinian Authority, to whom do their loyalties lie?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The Palestinians declared Wednesday that they will have no choice but to complain about Israel to the International Criminal Court if the Jewish state proceeds with plans to build housing on land the Palestinians want for a future state.

I want some land in Wyoming, so I'm going to sue the state of Wyoming because they plan to build a highway on that land I'd like to have.


How fucking retarded.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

The Palestinians declared Wednesday that they will have no choice but to complain about Israel to the International Criminal Court if the Jewish state proceeds with plans to build housing on land the Palestinians want for a future state.

I want some land in Wyoming, so I'm going to sue the state of Wyoming because they plan to build a highway on that land I'd like to have.


How fucking retarded.

You are the one acting retarded or should I say mentally challenged. Israel is an Occupier in Palestine. It is Israel who has no sovereignty rights there. It is like if Mexico came and occupied Texas and the US complained to the International Criminal Court. Would you call the US retarded in that scenario?

 

[MHunterB]

But there was no 'Palestine' in the WB: that was *Jordan* which invaded and kept the land in '48.

And nobody has yet explained how Jordan was not 'an Occupier' from '48-'67: I can't see why there's any difference between what Jordan did and what Israel did.

 

[irosie91]

But there was no 'Palestine' in the WB: that was *Jordan* which invaded and kept the land in '48.

And nobody has yet explained how Jordan was not 'an Occupier' from '48-'67: I can't see why there's any difference between what Jordan did and what Israel did.

I will explain---it is very simple----the erstwhile "palestine" aka judea/israel
is MUSLIM LAND-----muslims living on MUSLIM LAND are not occupiers---
and muslims who INVADE muslim lands are not aggressors----they are
FIGHTING FOR ISLAAAAM a noble cause. Were Britain to
invade SPAIN---and leave soldiers there----that would be
OCCUPATION----but were Egypt to invade spain and leave
soldiers there----that would NOT be occupation ---what would
be MUSLIMS FIGHTING FOR ISLAAAAAM ---ALLAHUAKBARRRR!!!!

 

[pbel]

But there was no 'Palestine' in the WB: that was *Jordan* which invaded and kept the land in '48.

And nobody has yet explained how Jordan was not 'an Occupier' from '48-'67: I can't see why there's any difference between what Jordan did and what Israel did.

I will explain---it is very simple----the erstwhile "palestine" aka judea/israel
is MUSLIM LAND-----muslims living on MUSLIM LAND are not occupiers---
and muslims who INVADE muslim lands are not aggressors----they are
FIGHTING FOR ISLAAAAM a noble cause. Were Britain to
invade SPAIN---and leave soldiers there----that would be
OCCUPATION----but were Egypt to invade spain and leave
soldiers there----that would NOT be occupation ---what would
be MUSLIMS FIGHTING FOR ISLAAAAAM ---ALLAHUAKBARRRR!!!!

Thank the gods maybe for your clarity, Rose, but take your Med's....

 

[irosie91]

The Palestinians declared Wednesday that they will have no choice but to complain about Israel to the International Criminal Court if the Jewish state proceeds with plans to build housing on land the Palestinians want for a future state.

I want some land in Wyoming, so I'm going to sue the state of Wyoming because they plan to build a highway on that land I'd like to have.


How fucking retarded.

You are the one acting retarded or should I say mentally challenged. Israel is an Occupier in Palestine. It is Israel who has no sovereignty rights there. It is like if Mexico came and occupied Texas and the US complained to the International Criminal Court.
Would you call the US retarded in that scenario?

The United States and Mexico have a mutually recognized
land border----it shows up on maps in Mexico and on Maps in
the USA. Israel and jordan do not have a mutually recognized
land border and the term "palestine" does not represent a
land bound by mutually recognized borders or even recognized
sovereignty either. A comment by "the world court" ----is a joke'

There was never a trial----the comment can be used in evidence
at a future trial---but on its own ---it is virtually meaningless.
Have you ever seen the insided of a courtroom, sherri? Did
you understand what the idiot mendacious lawyers were saying?.
I did----that's why I can understand your double talk

 

[Lipush]

If they wish to play that game, let them. We can do so, too.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I want some land in Wyoming, so I'm going to sue the state of Wyoming because they plan to build a highway on that land I'd like to have.


How fucking retarded.

You are the one acting retarded or should I say mentally challenged. Israel is an Occupier in Palestine. It is Israel who has no sovereignty rights there. It is like if Mexico came and occupied Texas and the US complained to the International Criminal Court.
Would you call the US retarded in that scenario?

The United States and Mexico have a mutually recognized
land border----it shows up on maps in Mexico and on Maps in
the USA. Israel and jordan do not have a mutually recognized
land border and the term "palestine" does not represent a
land bound by mutually recognized borders or even recognized
sovereignty either. A comment by "the world court" ----is a joke'

There was never a trial----the comment can be used in evidence
at a future trial---but on its own ---it is virtually meaningless.
Have you ever seen the insided of a courtroom, sherri? Did
you understand what the idiot mendacious lawyers were saying?.
I did----that's why I can understand your double talk

Israel and jordan do not have a mutually recognized
land border

Israel has no borders. It doesn't have mutually recognized borders with anyone.

An international border was defined between Jordan and Palestine in 1922.

 

[Hossfly]

You are the one acting retarded or should I say mentally challenged. Israel is an Occupier in Palestine. It is Israel who has no sovereignty rights there. It is like if Mexico came and occupied Texas and the US complained to the International Criminal Court.
Would you call the US retarded in that scenario?

The United States and Mexico have a mutually recognized
land border----it shows up on maps in Mexico and on Maps in
the USA. Israel and jordan do not have a mutually recognized
land border and the term "palestine" does not represent a
land bound by mutually recognized borders or even recognized
sovereignty either. A comment by "the world court" ----is a joke'

There was never a trial----the comment can be used in evidence
at a future trial---but on its own ---it is virtually meaningless.
Have you ever seen the insided of a courtroom, sherri? Did
you understand what the idiot mendacious lawyers were saying?.
I did----that's why I can understand your double talk

Israel and jordan do not have a mutually recognized
land border

Israel has no borders. It doesn't have mutually recognized borders with anyone.

An international border was defined between Jordan and Palestine in 1922.

If you say so, Tinnie. Check with Palestinian President Abbas.

 

[irosie91]

You are the one acting retarded or should I say mentally challenged. Israel is an Occupier in Palestine. It is Israel who has no sovereignty rights there. It is like if Mexico came and occupied Texas and the US complained to the International Criminal Court.
Would you call the US retarded in that scenario?

The United States and Mexico have a mutually recognized
land border----it shows up on maps in Mexico and on Maps in
the USA. Israel and jordan do not have a mutually recognized
land border and the term "palestine" does not represent a
land bound by mutually recognized borders or even recognized
sovereignty either. A comment by "the world court" ----is a joke'

There was never a trial----the comment can be used in evidence
at a future trial---but on its own ---it is virtually meaningless.
Have you ever seen the insided of a courtroom, sherri? Did
you understand what the idiot mendacious lawyers were saying?.
I did----that's why I can understand your double talk

Israel and jordan do not have a mutually recognized
land border

Israel has no borders. It doesn't have mutually recognized borders with anyone.

An international border was defined between Jordan and Palestine in 1922.[/QUOTE


Right---back then there was a defined border---beween "ARAB" Jordan
and PALESTINE aka judea/israel (for a bit more than the past 2000 years
and before the invasion of palestine by the dogs of arabia)

In 1922 when the ONLY people in the world who self described or were
called "palestinians" were jews go right ahead and present your teensy
bits that ----could be STRETCHED to create the idea that muslims and
christians were called "palestinians" back then or SOMEDAY WOULD BE---
just in case your personal persent day interpretation consistent with your
historical re-write MAGICALLY CAME TRUE-----tell us the name of the
SULTAN OF PALESTINE ---or the GRAND MUFTI OF PALESTINE 1922

I can show you literature and organizations including the name "PALESTINE"
-----from writings in english, hebrew and Yiddish----way back in to 1800s
Phrases like "palestinian rabbi"---1876 ---but NO "palestinian mufti"

the passports labeled "palestine" ---owned by muslims ---described
the nationality of the ---MUKHTAR IBN KHARAH as "arab" not
"palestinian"---the passports of moshe ben marak----were marked
"PALESTINIAN" aka 'jew' The thing called "palestine" in 1922--
was a land mass-----marked out GEOGRAPHICALLY something like Antactica
is marrked out geographically For some syrian muslims it was PART OF
THE SYRIAN EMPIRE-----so? for some egyptian muslims spain is
part of DAR AL ISLAM Today ARABIA is marked out geographically
as something that corresponds to "saudi arabia" someday it might
be an annex to Las Vegas USA

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you've made a mistake.

You are the one acting retarded or should I say mentally challenged. Israel is an Occupier in Palestine. It is Israel who has no sovereignty rights there. It is like if Mexico came and occupied Texas and the US complained to the International Criminal Court.
Would you call the US retarded in that scenario?

The United States and Mexico have a mutually recognized
land border----it shows up on maps in Mexico and on Maps in
the USA. Israel and jordan do not have a mutually recognized
land border and the term "palestine" does not represent a
land bound by mutually recognized borders or even recognized
sovereignty either. A comment by "the world court" ----is a joke'

There was never a trial----the comment can be used in evidence
at a future trial---but on its own ---it is virtually meaningless.
Have you ever seen the insided of a courtroom, sherri? Did
you understand what the idiot mendacious lawyers were saying?.
I did----that's why I can understand your double talk

Israel and jordan do not have a mutually recognized
land border

Israel has no borders. It doesn't have mutually recognized borders with anyone.

An international border was defined between Jordan and Palestine in 1922.

(COMMENT)

HM The King thinks there is a defined border. I'm inclined to agree.

REFERENCE:

Treaty of Peace Between The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan And The State of Israel
October 26, 1994

• The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty

1. The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.
2. The boundary, as set out in Annex I (a), is the permanent, secure and recognized international boundary between Jordan and Israel, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.
3. The Parties recognize the international boundary, as well as each other's territory, territorial waters and airspace, as inviolable, and will respect and comply with them.
4. The demarcation of the boundary will take place as set forth in Appendix (I) to Annex I and will be concluded not later than 9 months after the signing of the Treaty.
5. It is agreed that where the boundary follows a river, in the event of natural changes in the course of the flow of the river as described in Annex I (a), the boundary shall follow the new course of the flow. In the event of any other changes the boundary shall not be affected unless otherwise agreed.
6. Immediately upon the exchange of the instruments of ratification of this Treaty, each Party will deploy on its side of the international boundary as defined in Annex I (a).
7. The parties shall, upon the signature of the Treaty, enter into negotiations to conclude, within 9 months, an agreement on the delimitation of their maritime boundary in the Gulf of Aqaba.
8. Taking into account the special circumstances of the Baqura/Naharayim area, which is under Jordanian sovereignty, with Israeli private ownership rights, the Parties agree to apply the provisions set out in Annex I (b).
9. With respect to the Al-Ghamr/Zofar area, the provisions set out in Annex I (c) will apply.

THEN, from the index you can examine:

Annex I:

(a) International Boundary

(b) Baqura/Naharayim Area

(c) Al-Ghamr/Zofar Area​

Remember, The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan derived its independence on 25 May 1946 from Allied Powers, then League of Nations and then was released from the Palestinian Mandate under British administration; in nearly the same fashion as Israel two years later.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[irosie91]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you've made a mistake.

The United States and Mexico have a mutually recognized
land border----it shows up on maps in Mexico and on Maps in
the USA. Israel and jordan do not have a mutually recognized
land border and the term "palestine" does not represent a
land bound by mutually recognized borders or even recognized
sovereignty either. A comment by "the world court" ----is a joke'

There was never a trial----the comment can be used in evidence
at a future trial---but on its own ---it is virtually meaningless.
Have you ever seen the insided of a courtroom, sherri? Did
you understand what the idiot mendacious lawyers were saying?.
I did----that's why I can understand your double talk

Israel has no borders. It doesn't have mutually recognized borders with anyone.

An international border was defined between Jordan and Palestine in 1922.

(COMMENT)

HM The King thinks there is a defined border. I'm inclined to agree.

REFERENCE:

Treaty of Peace Between The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan And The State of Israel
October 26, 1994

• The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty

1. The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as

is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.
2. The boundary, as set out in Annex I (a), is the permanent, secure and
recognized international boundary between Jordan and Israel, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.
3. The Parties recognize the international boundary, as well as each other's territory, territorial waters and airspace, as inviolable, and will respect and comply with
them.
4. The demarcation of the boundary will take place as set forth in Appendix (I) to Annex I and will be concluded not later than 9 months after the signing of the Treaty.
5. It is agreed that where the boundary follows a river, in the event of natural
changes in the course of the flow of the river as described in Annex I (a), the boundary shall follow the new course of the flow. In the event of any other changes the boundary shall not be affected unless otherwise agreed.
6. Immediately upon the exchange of the instruments of ratification of this Treaty, each Party will deploy on its side of the international boundary as defined in

Annex I (a).7. The parties shall, upon the signature of the Treaty, enter into negotiations to conclude, within 9 months, an agreement on the delimitation of their maritime boundary in the Gulf of Aqaba.
8. Taking into account the special circumstances of the Baqura/Naharayim area, which is under Jordanian sovereignty, with Israeli private ownership rights, the Parties agree to apply the provisions set out in Annex I (b).

9. With respect to the Al-Ghamr/Zofar area, the provisions set out in Annex I (c) will apply.

THEN, from the index you can examine:

Annex I:

(a) International Boundary
(b) Baqura/Naharayim Area

(c) Al-Ghamr/Zofar Area​

Remember, The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan derived its independence on 25 May 1946 from Allied Powers, then League of Nations and the was released from the Palestinian Mandate under British administration; in nearly the same fashion as Israel two years
later.

Most Respectfully,
R

Sorry Mr R---I made a mistake---I should have said
that the border between the FATAH ENTITY (which
has been repudiated by Jordan----and Israel is
now in dispute

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think you've made a mistake.

The United States and Mexico have a mutually recognized
land border----it shows up on maps in Mexico and on Maps in
the USA. Israel and jordan do not have a mutually recognized
land border and the term "palestine" does not represent a
land bound by mutually recognized borders or even recognized
sovereignty either. A comment by "the world court" ----is a joke'

There was never a trial----the comment can be used in evidence
at a future trial---but on its own ---it is virtually meaningless.
Have you ever seen the insided of a courtroom, sherri? Did
you understand what the idiot mendacious lawyers were saying?.
I did----that's why I can understand your double talk

Israel has no borders. It doesn't have mutually recognized borders with anyone.

An international border was defined between Jordan and Palestine in 1922.

(COMMENT)

HM The King thinks there is a defined border. I'm inclined to agree.

REFERENCE:

Treaty of Peace Between The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan And The State of Israel
October 26, 1994

• The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty

1. The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.
2. The boundary, as set out in Annex I (a), is the permanent, secure and recognized international boundary between Jordan and Israel, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.
3. The Parties recognize the international boundary, as well as each other's territory, territorial waters and airspace, as inviolable, and will respect and comply with them.
4. The demarcation of the boundary will take place as set forth in Appendix (I) to Annex I and will be concluded not later than 9 months after the signing of the Treaty.
5. It is agreed that where the boundary follows a river, in the event of natural changes in the course of the flow of the river as described in Annex I (a), the boundary shall follow the new course of the flow. In the event of any other changes the boundary shall not be affected unless otherwise agreed.
6. Immediately upon the exchange of the instruments of ratification of this Treaty, each Party will deploy on its side of the international boundary as defined in Annex I (a).
7. The parties shall, upon the signature of the Treaty, enter into negotiations to conclude, within 9 months, an agreement on the delimitation of their maritime boundary in the Gulf of Aqaba.
8. Taking into account the special circumstances of the Baqura/Naharayim area, which is under Jordanian sovereignty, with Israeli private ownership rights, the Parties agree to apply the provisions set out in Annex I (b).
9. With respect to the Al-Ghamr/Zofar area, the provisions set out in Annex I (c) will apply.

THEN, from the index you can examine:

Annex I:

(a) International Boundary

(b) Baqura/Naharayim Area

(c) Al-Ghamr/Zofar Area​

Remember, The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan derived its independence on 25 May 1946 from Allied Powers, then League of Nations and the was released from the Palestinian Mandate under British administration; in nearly the same fashion as Israel two years later.

Most Respectfully,
R

A. The boundary Line shall follow the middle of the main course of the flow of the Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers.

It is interesting that Israel claims the border of occupied Palestinian territory as theirs.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, well --- actually it is recognized by both Hashemite Kingdom AND Israel.

A. The boundary Line shall follow the middle of the main course of the flow of the Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers.

It is interesting that Israel claims the border of occupied Palestinian territory as theirs.

(COMMENT)

The context of what is a violation, in terms of Occupation Law, hinges on if Israel is considered a true Occupation Force; or the status of Palestine.

For instance, which "state" is claiming to be Occupied? Or does it matter?

Territory is regarded as occupied when, as the consequence of invasion by hostile forces, the State to which it belongs has ceased, in fact, to exercise its ordinary authority therein, and the invading State is alone in a position to maintain order there. The limits within which this state of affairs exists determine the extent and duration of the occupation.
SOURCE: International Humanitarian Law - Oxford Manual 1880

Remember:

Palestine : On 21 June 1989, the Swiss Federal Department of Foreign Affairs received a letter from the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations Office at Geneva informing the Swiss Federal Council "that the Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization, entrusted with the functions of the Government of the State of Palestine by decision of the Palestine National Council, decided, on 4 May 1989, to adhere to the Four Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 and the two Protocols additional thereto".
On 13 September 1989, the Swiss Federal Council informed the States that it was not in a position to decide whether the letter constituted an instrument of accession, "due to the uncertainty within the international community as to the existence or non-existence of a State of Palestine".
SOURCE: International Humanitarian Law - State Parties / Signatories

This is why we need to exercise the legal remedies that have to be tested. There are just a plethora of questions that need to be resolved.

Most Respectfully,
R