Palestinians may demand vote in Israeli Elections

[JStone]

The Palestinians are not remotely comparable to illegal immigrants. They were born in Israel (or in the West Bank/Gaza). At the very least, they were born in refugee camps from parents born in Israel/Palestine. They are not Iraqis.

West Bank and Gaza are forming their own country no? than why should they vote in Israeli elections?

They have been negotiating this for 18 years. During that time there was supposed to be no increase in settlements but the number of settlers has tripled. Even worse the US Congress applauded Netanyahu claiming the right to their land and since the UN vote despite his agreement with the Chancellor of Germany which made them not side with the French, Netanyahu has announced more building. From the link

The Palestinian prime minister harshly criticized the announcement of new construction in East Jerusalem. "It's actually Bethlehem," he said, adding that there can be no solution to the conflict "without recognizing East Jerusalem as the permanent capital of Palestine," he said.

Not only that settlers on their land are becoming more and more extremist

Fayyad added that the Israeli government must "rein in settler violence" and that "much more needs to be done against these acts of extremism and terrorism."

The situation has to be resolved. The people have been occupied for 44 years. The settlers take more and more of their land and they have no human rights.

If a viable state cannot be produced for them after 44 years and 18 years of negotiating then it is sensible to start thinking of getting a vote in one's life rather than look for something which is never going to happen.

That is the warning which the PIJ gave in their paper to the EU. Continued settlements will lead to a one state solution for making all of the people citizens. Can you not see that Israel cannot have her cake and eat it. A state for the Palestinians or a vote for the Palestinians is what it will eventually be. What other outcome can you see?

Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis...

The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1948]

Guy Milliere, Eminent Professor of History and Political Science, Sorbonne, Paris

No one had heard of a Palestinian people before the mid-1960s. They did not exist. Israel under the British Mandate until Israel' s Independence in 1948 was called Palestine. All Jews who were born there until i948 had the word « Palestine » stamped on their passports. The current Palestinians are those Arabs who, for a variety of reasons, decided to leave the land during the 1947 War of Independence, when five countries – Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq – attacked the 600,000 people in the fledgling state of Israel the day after its birth, hoping to kill it in the crib.
The War Against Israel Goes On- by Guy Millière | DRZZ.fr

Pulitzer Prize-Winning Writer Charles Krauthammer...

Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store.

Tel Dan Stele Verifying King David Dynasty 3000 years ago
The Tel Dan Stela and the Kings of Aram and Israel

Judaea Capta Coins Minted By Romans against Jews 2000 years ago
Judaea Capta coinage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jewish Dead Sea Scrolls 2000 years old.
Dead Sea Scrolls - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel

In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.
The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press

 

[JStone]

The situation has to be resolved. The people have been occupied for 44 years. The settlers take more and more of their land and they have no human rights.

Jews have lived in and ruled in Israel for 3000 years continuously to today. So-called Palestinians didn't even exist a few years ago, making them the settlers and occupiers in Israel. Last time I checked, Israel was a Hebrew word, not a Palestinian word.

You have one fertile imagination, hun.

Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis...

The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1948]

Guy Milliere, Eminent Professor of History and Political Science, Sorbonne, Paris

No one had heard of a Palestinian people before the mid-1960s. They did not exist. Israel under the British Mandate until Israel' s Independence in 1948 was called Palestine. All Jews who were born there until i948 had the word « Palestine » stamped on their passports. The current Palestinians are those Arabs who, for a variety of reasons, decided to leave the land during the 1947 War of Independence, when five countries – Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq – attacked the 600,000 people in the fledgling state of Israel the day after its birth, hoping to kill it in the crib.
The War Against Israel Goes On- by Guy Millière | DRZZ.fr

Pulitzer Prize-Winning Writer Charles Krauthammer...

Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store.

Tel Dan Stele Verifying King David Dynasty 3000 years ago
The Tel Dan Stela and the Kings of Aram and Israel

Judaea Capta Coins Minted By Romans against Jews 2000 years ago
Judaea Capta coinage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jewish Dead Sea Scrolls 2000 years old.
Dead Sea Scrolls - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel

In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.
The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press

 

[alexa]

As you can see Netanyahu is intending on changing the law to legalise outposts. Israel does not appear to have any intent on working towards a Palestinian State.

After the announcements of the Government on the intention to legalize illegal outposts that were built on what is called “State Lands”, it is now reported that Netanyahu is now seeking the way to legalize also those that are built on private Palestinian lands. According to the reports, Netanyahu will set up a task force to explore ways to legalize houses in the settlements that were built on private Palestinian land.

Law bent in favour of settlers to ‘legalize’ illegal outposts | Jews for Justice for Palestinians

If Israel is intent on taking the land that was to be the Palestinian state then I cannot see how anyone cannot see that the Palestinians have no alternative than to ask to be citizens of Israel

 

[JStone]

As you can see Netanyahu is intending on changing the law to legalise outposts. Israel does not appear to have any intent on working towards a Palestinian State.

After the announcements of the Government on the intention to legalize illegal outposts that were built on what is called “State Lands”, it is now reported that Netanyahu is now seeking the way to legalize also those that are built on private Palestinian lands. According to the reports, Netanyahu will set up a task force to explore ways to legalize houses in the settlements that were built on private Palestinian land.

Law bent in favour of settlers to ‘legalize’ illegal outposts | Jews for Justice for Palestinians

If Israel is intent on taking the land that was to be the Palestinian state then I cannot see how anyone can see that the Palestinians have no alternative than to ask to be citizens of Israel

Hun, Jews have lived in and ruled in Israel continuously for 3000 years to today. Israel is sovereign Jewish land.

So-called Palestinians are merely Arabs from Arabia who are illegal aliens in Israel.

Get a grip on reality, hun.

Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis...

The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1948]

Guy Milliere, Eminent Professor of History and Political Science, Sorbonne, Paris

No one had heard of a Palestinian people before the mid-1960s. They did not exist. Israel under the British Mandate until Israel' s Independence in 1948 was called Palestine. All Jews who were born there until i948 had the word « Palestine » stamped on their passports. The current Palestinians are those Arabs who, for a variety of reasons, decided to leave the land during the 1947 War of Independence, when five countries – Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq – attacked the 600,000 people in the fledgling state of Israel the day after its birth, hoping to kill it in the crib.
The War Against Israel Goes On- by Guy Millière | DRZZ.fr

Pulitzer Prize-Winning Writer Charles Krauthammer...

Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store.

Tel Dan Stele Verifying King David Dynasty 3000 years ago
The Tel Dan Stela and the Kings of Aram and Israel

Judaea Capta Coins Minted By Romans against Jews 2000 years ago
Judaea Capta coinage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jewish Dead Sea Scrolls 2000 years old.
Dead Sea Scrolls - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel

In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.
The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press

 

[High_Gravity]

The Palestinians are not remotely comparable to illegal immigrants. They were born in Israel (or in the West Bank/Gaza). At the very least, they were born in refugee camps from parents born in Israel/Palestine. They are not Iraqis.

West Bank and Gaza are forming their own country no? than why should they vote in Israeli elections?

They have been negotiating this for 18 years. During that time there was supposed to be no increase in settlements but the number of settlers has tripled. Even worse the US Congress applauded Netanyahu claiming the right to their land and since the UN vote despite his agreement with the Chancellor of Germany which made them not side with the French, Netanyahu has announced more building. From the link

The Palestinian prime minister harshly criticized the announcement of new construction in East Jerusalem. "It's actually Bethlehem," he said, adding that there can be no solution to the conflict "without recognizing East Jerusalem as the permanent capital of Palestine," he said.

Not only that settlers on their land are becoming more and more extremist

Fayyad added that the Israeli government must "rein in settler violence" and that "much more needs to be done against these acts of extremism and terrorism."

The situation has to be resolved. The people have been occupied for 44 years. The settlers take more and more of their land and they have no human rights.

If a viable state cannot be produced for them after 44 years and 18 years of negotiating then it is sensible to start thinking of getting a vote in one's life rather than look for something which is never going to happen.

That is the warning which the PIJ gave in their paper to the EU. Continued settlements will lead to a one state solution for making all of the people citizens. Can you not see that Israel cannot have her cake and eat it. A state for the Palestinians or a vote for the Palestinians is what it will eventually be. What other outcome can you see?

Again I have to ask, if the West Bank and Gaza are working on creating their own state why should they get to vote in Israeli elections? did Israelis get to vote in the Gaza election when they voted in Hamas?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians live under the control of Israel. Why shouldn't they have the vote?

 

[alexa]

As you can see Netanyahu is intending on changing the law to legalise outposts. Israel does not appear to have any intent on working towards a Palestinian State.

After the announcements of the Government on the intention to legalize illegal outposts that were built on what is called “State Lands”, it is now reported that Netanyahu is now seeking the way to legalize also those that are built on private Palestinian lands. According to the reports, Netanyahu will set up a task force to explore ways to legalize houses in the settlements that were built on private Palestinian land.

Law bent in favour of settlers to ‘legalize’ illegal outposts | Jews for Justice for Palestinians

If Israel is intent on taking the land that was to be the Palestinian state then I cannot see how anyone can see that the Palestinians have no alternative than to ask to be citizens of Israel

Hun, Jews have lived in and ruled in Israel continuously for 3000 years to today.

and some who were Jews have lived even a couple of centuries or so longer known as other people in just the same way as they are known as Palestinians today

Behind the conflict, there is a clash of competing claims to presence in the land by two groups of people. The Jewish claim is largely based on old religious connections and narratives derived from the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament).The Palestinian claim to the land is based on periods of continuous habitation and contact with the land. It includes the argument that all religious communities coexisted peacefully before the introduction of the counterclaim by a Zionist ideology imported by Europeans. Usually, the Palestinian presence is connected (by most Jews and even by many Palestinians) to the Muslim conquest in the 7th century that brought “Arabs” to Palestine. Disagreement between the two sides about ancient history is a central part of the present conflict and its current images.

Since “Canaan” (in Western usage) represents an idealized construct identical to “promised land,” it is central to the biblical claim of Zionist settlement in Palestine — as it was a justifying strategy in colonizing paradigm used by settlers in places like America and South Africa. European "pilgrims" to North America during the 17th century used the construct "Canaan" in biblical imagery about "chosen people" and "New Israel" to justify their conquest and their eradication of the native population and, later, the enslavement of black people (for a discussion, see Prior).

However, though condemned as idolatrous and pagan, Cana'anite religion has been shown to underlie the origins of monotheism. Forgotten and devalued, the Cana'anite past is still visibly buried in both present Palestinian daily life and customs and the belief system known today as monotheism (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). It is important to bring this latent heritage into surface awareness, to correct perception of past and present, and to complement religious perspectives, to influence positively consciousness and identity construction among Israelis and Palestinians.

Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>The Cana&#8217;anite Factor: (Un) Defining Religious Identities in Palestine and Israel</b>

That would matter to someone interested in peace and justice but not to an itty witty Christian zionist who does not give a rat's arse about any human beings right to live and is working to create the situation where all will go poop and he will get the lot.

Israel is sovereign Jewish land.

We are not talking about Israel. We are talking about the occupied territories the West Bank and Gaza though on a strictly legal sense Israel could be questioned.

So-called Palestinians are merely Arabs from Arabia who are illegal aliens in Israel.

already rebutted above

Get a grip on reality, hun.

You may feel it is fine for people to be without human rights but I do not. You have already shown that you support giving out false information in order to create fear and hatred towards Muslims just like people did to Jews in the 30's and this morning you came in in your new incarnation of Moishe and came straight out with your views

Quote: Originally Posted by Moishe View Post
We should kill all arabs in Palestine, that would solve the problem.

Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis

Ah that will be the man who told Bush how to act in Iraq and changed a mainly secular State into a mainly Islamic one. He clearly knows a lot about Muslims, I think not.

"Bernard Lewis Revisited" by Michael Hirsh

 

[High_Gravity]

The Palestinians live under the control of Israel. Why shouldn't they have the vote?

Israelis should get to vote in the Palestinian elections as well than.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians are not remotely comparable to illegal immigrants. They were born in Israel (or in the West Bank/Gaza). At the very least, they were born in refugee camps from parents born in Israel/Palestine. They are not Iraqis.

Palestinians are Iraqis and Egyptians and Algerians and Moroccans and Saudis and Syrians.

Three common Palestinian surnames are al-Masri [the Egyptian], al-Iraqi and Maghrebi [MAghreb, Africa]

Palestinians are merely Arab migrants from Arab countries who migrated illegally to Israel. They need to be deported.

Palestinians are merely Arab migrants from Arab countries who migrated illegally to Israel.

Do you have any stats on that?

I didn't think so.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians live under the control of Israel. Why shouldn't they have the vote?

Israelis should get to vote in the Palestinian elections as well than.

Interesting.

Who would they vote for?

 

[alexa]

The Palestinians live under the control of Israel. Why shouldn't they have the vote?

Israelis should get to vote in the Palestinian elections as well than.

Ah I think you have misunderstood what Fayyed is saying. I understand your first answer now. He is not suggesting they be seperate from Israel. He is saying that if they cannot get a State and Israel has settled over what would have been the Palestinian State they will instead ask that the area West Bank/Gaza and Israel be a state for al it's people, that all it's people become citizens and have a vote.

It is one or the other - the viable state they were promised 18 years ago or to become part of expanded Israel.

 

[High_Gravity]

The Palestinians live under the control of Israel. Why shouldn't they have the vote?

Israelis should get to vote in the Palestinian elections as well than.

Interesting.

Who would they vote for?

I don't know, who would the Palestinians vote for in Israeli elections? should Mexicans get to vote in our elections here in the States?

 

[High_Gravity]

The Palestinians live under the control of Israel. Why shouldn't they have the vote?

Israelis should get to vote in the Palestinian elections as well than.

Ah I think you have misunderstood what Fayyed is saying. I understand your first answer now. He is not suggesting they be seperate from Israel. He is saying that if they cannot get a State and Israel has settled over what would have been the Palestinian State they will instead ask that the area West Bank/Gaza and Israel be a state for al it's people, that all it's people become citizens and have a vote.

It is one or the other - the viable state they were promised 18 years ago or to become part of expanded Israel.

So they want to come together with Israel but at the same time want to wipe if off the face of the earth? do you really not see why the Israelis would not want anything to do with this?

 

[alexa]

Israelis should get to vote in the Palestinian elections as well than.

Ah I think you have misunderstood what Fayyed is saying. I understand your first answer now. He is not suggesting they be seperate from Israel. He is saying that if they cannot get a State and Israel has settled over what would have been the Palestinian State they will instead ask that the area West Bank/Gaza and Israel be a state for al it's people, that all it's people become citizens and have a vote.

It is one or the other - the viable state they were promised 18 years ago or to become part of expanded Israel.

So they want to come together with Israel but at the same time want to wipe if off the face of the earth? do you really not see why the Israelis would not want anything to do with this?

Quit the propaganda. The point is they either get a State or a vote. How exactly would you live with neither?

 

[High_Gravity]

Ah I think you have misunderstood what Fayyed is saying. I understand your first answer now. He is not suggesting they be seperate from Israel. He is saying that if they cannot get a State and Israel has settled over what would have been the Palestinian State they will instead ask that the area West Bank/Gaza and Israel be a state for al it's people, that all it's people become citizens and have a vote.

It is one or the other - the viable state they were promised 18 years ago or to become part of expanded Israel.

So they want to come together with Israel but at the same time want to wipe if off the face of the earth? do you really not see why the Israelis would not want anything to do with this?

Quit the propaganda. The point is they either get a State or a vote.

The Palestinians voting in Israeli elections is never going to happen, wake up.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israelis should get to vote in the Palestinian elections as well than.

Interesting.

Who would they vote for?

I don't know, who would the Palestinians vote for in Israeli elections? should Mexicans get to vote in our elections here in the States?

One thing for sure, nobody on either side would like anyone running in the other place.

 

[alexa]

So they want to come together with Israel but at the same time want to wipe if off the face of the earth? do you really not see why the Israelis would not want anything to do with this?

Quit the propaganda. The point is they either get a State or a vote.

The Palestinians voting in Israeli elections is never going to happen, wake up.

They will either get a State or a vote.

 

[Ropey]

^ Or continue to kill each other over who has control of their people.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Quit the propaganda. The point is they either get a State or a vote.

The Palestinians voting in Israeli elections is never going to happen, wake up.

They will either get a State or a vote.

People are saying that "two state" is already dead.

 

[High_Gravity]

Quit the propaganda. The point is they either get a State or a vote.

The Palestinians voting in Israeli elections is never going to happen, wake up.

They will either get a State or a vote.

They applied to the UN for a state no? than whats all this about voting in Israeli elections? will Hamas submit a candidate for the Israeli presidency too?