'Palestinian'

[Shusha]

The simple test was to define culture. You defined German culture using language, professions, sports, food, drink and skin color.

Is that your definition, then?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Chinese refers to a culture and ethnicity. Jewish doesn't.

Really? How do you define "culture and ethnicity" in an objective way which includes Chinese and Palestinian but excludes Jewish.

I have challenged people on this board over and over again with this simple question. No one has ever answered me. Wanna give it a try?


Simple test. Define "culture and ethnicity".

Why? What difference does it make?

 

[Eloy]

The simple test was to define culture. You defined German culture using language, professions, sports, food, drink and skin color.

Is that your definition, then?

Yes, don't forget the music too.

 

[Shusha]

Why? What difference does it make?

So people will stop all this nonsense trying to disconnect the Jewish people to the land of Israel.

 

[Eloy]

Why? What difference does it make?

So people will stop all this nonsense trying to disconnect the Jewish people to the land of Israel.

"Land of Israel"? Are you including the occupied Palestine Territories, I wonder.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why? What difference does it make?

So people will stop all this nonsense trying to disconnect the Jewish people to the land of Israel.

Actually it is the land of Palestine. The foreign government of Israel never legally acquired any land.

 

[Shusha]

The simple test was to define culture. You defined German culture using language, professions, sports, food, drink and skin color.

Is that your definition, then?

Yes, don't forget the music too.

So, by your own definition if a people has a distinctive language, professions, sports, food, drink and music then they have a culture. Professions and sports are kind of hard but...

German, sausages, beer.

Mandarin, chow mein, tea.

Hebrew, matzah, kosher wine.

 

[Eloy]

The simple test was to define culture. You defined German culture using language, professions, sports, food, drink and skin color.

Is that your definition, then?

Yes, don't forget the music too.

So, by your own definition if a people has a distinctive language, professions, sports, food, drink and music then they have a culture. Professions and sports are kind of hard but...

German, sausages, beer.

Mandarin, chow mein, tea.

Hebrew, matzah, kosher wine.

Stop your shallow nonsense.
It was Hitler who claimed that Jews were not German.
He was wrong.

 

[Shusha]

Huh. You know who doesn't fit Eloy's definition of culture? The Palestinians.

 

[louie888]

Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?

Is there a reason why the Jewish people can not go back to their home?

Of course not. Not for either. Let's get on with it.

Right, get the hell out of Palestine and back to the ghettos in Europe where they came from.

 

[rylah]

Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?

Is there a reason why the Jewish people can not go back to their home?

Of course not. Not for either. Let's get on with it.

If there is any evidence that those Europeans have any ancestors from the holy land I would like to see it.

You can't "go back" to someplace you have never been

By any definition of culture or ethnicity the Jewish people came from Israel, Judea and Samaria. What the hell definition are you using that they don't?

You know, like Chinese people come from China. And you know this because they are culturally Chinese.

Chinese refers to a culture and ethnicity. Jewish doesn't. Until the last century the Jews were part of the European and American culture, speaking European languages and fully part of European political and cultural life. They did not speak Hebrew but German, French, English, etc. Some impoverished Jews in the Polish shtetls spoke a mixture of Polish and German known as Yiddish. Some others were settled in North African and the Middle Eastern regions and speaking local languages. Judaism is a religion, not a culture or an ethnicity.

We have been over this before, when You tried to claim that Torah scrolls written in Hebrew did not belong to Jews and their heritage.

In every local language that was combined with Hebrew, whether it's Babylonian witch gave us big parts of the language in the Talmud, Aramaic which is in the Hebrew bible, Judeo-Spanish which is influenced directly by the songs in Tehilim and Song of Songs, Yiddish or Judeo- Arabic...they all retained Hebrew.

That's why the works of our sages in the diaspora and in Israel were so coordinated. When two Rabbis from distant diaspora countries met or spoke through letters, it was Hebrew that connected them.

That's why when an Ashkenazi Rabbi meets a Rabbi from the Babylonian diaspora they can speak freely and discuss the Jerusalem Talmud. In Hebrew.



Hebrew classical song:



That's another traditional song based on Psalms 'My Joy Return to My Homeland'. You hear Arabic influences and Spanish, but it's all the Hebrew language. The traditional melody starts at 2:27


Shabbat song:

 

[Hollie]

Why? What difference does it make?

So people will stop all this nonsense trying to disconnect the Jewish people to the land of Israel.

Actually it is the land of Palestine. The foreign government of Israel never legally acquired any land.

Actually, it was the land of the Islamist Turk colonists / invaders. The geographic area of Palestine (as opposed to your invented "country of Pally'land), was just a loosely defined land area under the control of the Ottomans.

 

[rylah]

And this is the source of all those melodies above:

 

[rylah]

Israel national instrument:

 

[ForeverYoung436]

There are two problems with this.

1. There is no way to determine who is in that "core group" and whose families have been there for thousands of years. And where do you cut it off? A hundred years of being part of that core group? Five hundred? A thousand? Four thousand?

2. What if people would have been in that core group but were forcibly removed from the place?


The whole argument is silly. Both peoples have rights. Both peoples should be entitled to those rights. Get on with it.

There are many ways to trace people's history. Turkey has records. Britain has records. The UN has records. There are municipal and village records. Family trees. Churches, etc. record membership including marriages, births, and deaths.

For example: Susan Abulhawa can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years. Ali Abunimah traces his family back to 1492 when they move to Palestine from Spain. Is there any reason why these people cannot go back to their homes?

Well You chose an easy case - 2 angry Arab anti-Zionists.
Are there reasons to give the son of Hassan Nasrallah a house in Jerusalem his grandfather owned?

But that of course was an exaggeration.

I'd do a thorough background investigation, check for possible solutions, and some kind of documented 'pledge of allegiance' where they Identify as Israelis, accept and recognize the sovereignty and right's of the indigenous people in that land, and swear not to participate in actions against the nation.

Your usual deflection.

I gave You all the reasons. Indigenous people have a right of self determination and a right to protect themselves from Arab Muslim colonialism.

You keep dancing around it. Doesn't look smart, kinda like a parrot.

By indigenous people do you mean those Europeans who have no ancestors from the holy land?

No ancestors? That's funny. I have visited the tombs of my ancestors--those of Abraham, Rachel, Joseph, King David, etc.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Huh. You know who doesn't fit Eloy's definition of culture? The Palestinians.

Eloy, it is the Palestinians who don't fit your definition of a nationality, not the Israelis. Israel has a distinctive language--Hebrew. The Palestinian language, Arabic, is shared by 22 other countries. Israelis have distinctive food--gefilte fish, cholent, latkes, kugel, matza, etc. The Palestinians' food are shared by 22 others--falafel, hummus, schwarma, etc. Israelis have distinctive music--klezmer, folk songs, the hora. Palestinian Arab music is shared by 22 others. Israelis have distinctive clothing--tallit, Hasidic garb, kippas. Palestinian Arab hijabs and burqas are shared by 22 others. Even the Palestinian flag is a rip-off of Jordan's, while the beautiful Star of David flag is representative of the Jewish and Israeli people. So Eloy, aside from sports (international soccer, basketball, and judo), it is the Israelis who meet all your qualifications for a nationality, not the Palestinians at all.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Chinese refers to a culture and ethnicity. Jewish doesn't.

Really? How do you define "culture and ethnicity" in an objective way which includes Chinese and Palestinian but excludes Jewish.

I have challenged people on this board over and over again with this simple question. No one has ever answered me. Wanna give it a try?


Simple test. Define "culture and ethnicity".

It is simple. Culture as in German culture. The culture of German Jewish homes and families in Munich in 1930 were indistinguishable from Catholic ones. They read the same newspapers, spoke German, entered the same professions, played the same sports, joined the same army, ate sausages, drank beer, and greeted their colleagues and children in the schools with "Guten Morgen." Ethnicity? They were white.
As if you did not know this.

Eloy, please read post #672 on this thread. It answers all your questions and definitions.

 

[teddyearp]

 

[fanger]

Mark Halawa

Mark Halawa was born in Kuwait and lived in Jordan and Syria, but after learning that he is Jewish, he came to Jerusalem to study in a Talmudic college. Now, even after advocating for Israel around the world, Israel's Chief Rabbinate doesn't acknowledge his conversion and the state is denying him citizenship.
Ynetnews Jewish Scene - Born Muslim, converted to Judaism and fighting for residency

 

[fanger]

Huh. You know who doesn't fit Eloy's definition of culture? The Palestinians.

Eloy, it is the Palestinians who don't fit your definition of a nationality, not the Israelis. Israel has a distinctive language--Hebrew. The Palestinian language, Arabic, is shared by 22 other countries. Israelis have distinctive food--gefilte fish, cholent, latkes, kugel, matza, etc. The Palestinians' food are shared by 22 others--falafel, hummus, schwarma, etc. Israelis have distinctive music--klezmer, folk songs, the hora. Palestinian Arab music is shared by 22 others. Israelis have distinctive clothing--tallit, Hasidic garb, kippas. Palestinian Arab hijabs and burqas are shared by 22 others. Even the Palestinian flag is a rip-off of Jordan's, while the beautiful Star of David flag is representative of the Jewish and Israeli people. So Eloy, aside from sports (international soccer, basketball, and judo), it is the Israelis who meet all your qualifications for a nationality, not the Palestinians at all.

America doesn't have a distinctive language, or a distinctive food