"Palestinian" PM Making It Crystal Clear

[maineman]

How about post Gulf War I, none of the stuff you post held? Saddam made overtures and vice versa with bin Laden, whether or not anything came of that?

I can appreciate your opinion, dire it is. That in and of itself does not preclude attempts to right what has gone wrong. To lose, well that's serious, deadly so.

"overtures"? you can characterize hte meetings of low level intermediaries as "overtures" if you like. The US and USSR held meetings all the time throughout the cold war.... do you think we were working up the courage to start kissing?

If we leave Iraq at a time certain in the future...and the carnage continues...the only thing different from what Bush is proposing is that the carnage will not include Americans.

I am all for keeping some troops in Iraq and stationing them on the borders so that munitions and reinforcements from Syria and Iran cannot make it into the fray....

but keeping our boys in the shooting gallery is INSANE

 

[glockmail]

THE strongest evidence of links between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden has emerged with reports that the Iraqi dictator is supporting former al-Qa'eda fighters who have established a Taliban-style enclave in Kurdistan.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...21.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/04/21/ixnewstop.html

 

[glockmail]

Richard Spertzel, an Iraq Survey Group member who also had served with the United Nations Iraq weapons inspections team, explained in the Wall Street Journal, "Documentation indicates that Iraq was training non-Iraqis at Salman Pak in terrorist techniques, including assassination and suicide bombing. In addition to Iraqis, trainees included Palestinians, Yemenis, Saudis, Lebanese, Egyptians and Sudanese."

http://www.nysun.com/article/3413

 

[maineman]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...21.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/04/21/ixnewstop.html

ansar al islam? you are proof positive that a little knowledge is dangerous.

you really need to learn a little bit about how middle eastern politics works...you need to understand Saddam's beef with the kurds...

I really don't have the inclination to school you.

 

[maineman]

http://www.nysun.com/article/3413

all of those people trained at Salman Pak were nationalists....

really, you are getting more pathetic with each desparate cut and paste

 

[glockmail]

all of those people trained at Salman Pak were ...

....terrorists.

The truth sucks for you, don't it?

 

[glockmail]

...you really need to learn a little bit about how middle eastern politics works.......

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend".

 

[maineman]

....terrorists.

The truth sucks for you, don't it?

again... there are all sorts of different varieties and flavors of "terrorists" in the world. And I firmly believe that America ought not to waste the blood of our soldiers, nor the treasure of our citizens, nor the goodwill of our allies in trying to police all of them. The "terrorists" training at Salman Pak were not the flavor or variety of terrorist that attacked us. That's the truth... and it does suck that we have spent so much of the aforementioned blood, treasure and goodwill on this debacle in Iraq which has little to nothing to do with the folks who attacked us.

 

[jillian]

again... there are all sorts of different varieties and flavors of "terrorists" in the world. And I firmly believe that America ought not to waste the blood of our soldiers, nor the treasure of our citizens, nor the goodwill of our allies in trying to police all of them. The "terrorists" training at Salman Pak were not the flavor or variety of terrorist that attacked us. That's the truth... and it does suck that we have spent so much of the aforementioned blood, treasure and goodwill on this debacle in Iraq which has little to nothing to do with the folks who attacked us.

Glock simply doesn't understand that the people trained in Kurdistan weren't under Saddam Hussein's control.

That little bit of information escapes him.

 

[maineman]

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend".

and you need to know that that axiom does not work when the enemy of your enemy is also your enemy. Deer do not befriend coyotes during hunting season simply because man is after both of them.... and coyotes do not stop hungering for deer during the same season.

Conducting foreign policy by relying solely on overly simplistic adolescent aphorisms is clearly what has gotten us in this mess, and it is clearly what drove the electorate to boot your incompetent and inept butts out of power in congress. No doubt, THAT truth sucks for you, if you in fact have the courage to face it.

 

[90K]

I want to INSOURCE the civil war in Iraq....YOU are the one who insists on OUT sourcing it.

I was 100% behind George Bush right up until the day he sent corrupty afghan warlords into Tora Bora to do our job.

Alright if you were President for a day: Would you listen to your advisors who should have first hand intel on specific regions and knowledge of things? Or would you pull a John Wayne and wing it? Your call Mr. President?
Now in hind sight of the situation President Bush should have done things different. We can't whine about spilled milk. But if politics weren't such a issue maybe our military could have completed the job and if a certain group of tree hugging Americans would have just stayed out of it things may have been different. Say what you want the whole deal was politics.

And guess what? Had it been John Kerry or Lieberman or even McCain they'd be having to address something over in the Middle East right now so we need to quite this George did this to us stuff. We'd all be outraged what another President would have done.

 

[90K]

and you need to know that that axiom does not work when the enemy of your enemy is also your enemy. Deer do not befriend coyotes during hunting season simply because man is after both of them.... and coyotes do not stop hungering for deer during the same season.

Conducting foreign policy by relying solely on overly simplistic adolescent aphorisms is clearly what has gotten us in this mess, and it is clearly what drove the electorate to boot your incompetent and inept butts out of power in congress. No doubt, THAT truth sucks for you, if you in fact have the courage to face it.

I can’t understand liberal logic---point blank. But what do you wise overly educated people going to do to fix the situation that we all are in? Should it be the Hillary plan? Because you all sure don't believe in closing our borders off, and disrupting the sleeper cells over in our country. So what is the plan here? Not one Liberal has ever come up with a plan; they all including you just point and start bitching about these mistakes.
I'm all ears here and I'm slowing trying to understand why liberals are so into government, but they don't want to be told what too do? That is damn insane, you support handouts, raising taxes and you continue to enable a society that has depended on your ways of thinking. But you all want change. I'm sorry but we can't have both here.

 

[dilloduck]

Alright if you were President for a day: Would you listen to your advisors who should have first hand intel on specific regions and knowledge of things? Or would you pull a John Wayne and wing it? Your call Mr. President?
Now in hind sight of the situation President Bush should have done things different. We can't whine about spilled milk. But if politics weren't such a issue maybe our military could have completed the job and if a certain group of tree hugging Americans would have just stayed out of it things may have been different. Say what you want the whole deal was politics.

And guess what? Had it been John Kerry or Lieberman or even McCain they'd be having to address something over in the Middle East right now so we need to quite this George did this to us stuff. We'd all be outraged what another President would have done.

Lberals continually try to whittle down the threat of terrorism to the hijackers and bin laden. Killing bin laden will accomplish no more than killing Saddam. Ok--say we get him--do we pack our bags and go home because we got all the perps?

 

[90K]

you don't think living in America offers everyone a better life than they have in third world countries? Don't you think that peaceful law abiding muslims are as attracted by our freedoms - most prominently our freedom of religion - as anyone else on the earth?

I am on America's side. I just so happen to believe that our president is leading us over a cliff. I certainly had no affection or respect for Saddam whatsoever and I am insulted by your tone that would suggest otherwise. Please alter it going forward. Saddam was a bad man...but the world is full of bad men and, like it or not, America has used bad men in other parts of the globe to do our bidding for many years. The fact of the matter isL Saddam, as big of a shit as he was, was better at keeping islamic extremists out of his country than we are, was better at keeping sunnis and shiites from slaughtering one another than we are, and better at keeping a lid on Iranian hegemony than we are. We would have been MUCH better off in this war on Islamic extremism to leave Saddam in place and concentrate instead on seeking out and destroying the people who attacked us.

First of all I have a very odd theory about desert storm: remember back then when the world was behind this deal with that moron saddam? His so called elite solders that gave up as so as we came across the border?
That was all a scam to put the plans in motion for what happen on 2003. All those funny loving and freedom deserving elite solders that GB #1 let come to our country are part of this vast sleeper cell groups throughout the world. The y were funding there agenda from our shores and they lived under our noses. Again theory.
So if these muzzies living here are so the word freedom, then they need to get off their dead asses and protest against terrorist and against this crap that terrorist and clerics use and in the muslim religion. Until they do that then we are at war with the muslim religion.

And maybe you could have seen that if Saddam wasn't dealt with he was going to go high order. That is why Iran is acting like it is right now. Can we ever fix Iraq? Hell now we can't but our original mission was to take out Saddam and rid some of the evil over there. We've been very successful in parts of that. But D.C. politics has prevented the military of doing its job.

Listen I am pro support of our troops, and being them home. But it is fruitless if we can't get the rest of the world involved in protecting there shores against terror and we need our borders secure with 100% support from our liberal brothers and sisters.

Your points do have some merit...don't go getting a big head yet! But give us all a plan, idea or something here that makes sense. We've made some serious blunders during this war(s) but if politics can't support going in and kicking ass then what is the use?

 

[maineman]

I can’t understand liberal logic---point blank. But what do you wise overly educated people going to do to fix the situation that we all are in? Should it be the Hillary plan? Because you all sure don't believe in closing our borders off, and disrupting the sleeper cells over in our country. So what is the plan here? Not one Liberal has ever come up with a plan; they all including you just point and start bitching about these mistakes.
I'm all ears here and I'm slowing trying to understand why liberals are so into government, but they don't want to be told what too do? That is damn insane, you support handouts, raising taxes and you continue to enable a society that has depended on your ways of thinking. But you all want change. I'm sorry but we can't have both here.

I have no problems sealing off our borders and making people who want to share the American dream do so legally. I have no problem using all available intelligence to disrupt sleeper cells here in America.... as long as every citizen's constitutional rights are not violated in the process. Liberals have come up with plenty of plans to deal with terror... and no one is suggesting that getting Osama makes the problem go away. All I have EVER said - and I have said it from the very beginning - is that the invasion of Iraq did nothing positive to fight the islamic extremists that confront us. In fact, it has been counterproductive in that effort. We DO have more muslims angry with us - REALLY angry with us - than we did before we invaded. Iraq was NOT a haven for Islamic extremists, and it really won't be one for quite some time.... it will be embroiled in a civil war that, unfortunately, we set in motion with our boneheaded invasion, but that now has a life of its own that we are powerless to stop. Nice job, neocons! Thanks a bunch.

 

[maineman]

First of all I have a very odd theory about desert storm: remember back then when the world was behind this deal with that moron saddam? His so called elite solders that gave up as so as we came across the border?
That was all a scam to put the plans in motion for what happen on 2003. All those funny loving and freedom deserving elite solders that GB #1 let come to our country are part of this vast sleeper cell groups throughout the world. The y were funding there agenda from our shores and they lived under our noses. Again theory.
So if these muzzies living here are so the word freedom, then they need to get off their dead asses and protest against terrorist and against this crap that terrorist and clerics use and in the muslim religion. Until they do that then we are at war with the muslim religion.

And maybe you could have seen that if Saddam wasn't dealt with he was going to go high order. That is why Iran is acting like it is right now. Can we ever fix Iraq? Hell now we can't but our original mission was to take out Saddam and rid some of the evil over there. We've been very successful in parts of that. But D.C. politics has prevented the military of doing its job.

Listen I am pro support of our troops, and being them home. But it is fruitless if we can't get the rest of the world involved in protecting there shores against terror and we need our borders secure with 100% support from our liberal brothers and sisters.

Your points do have some merit...don't go getting a big head yet! But give us all a plan, idea or something here that makes sense. We've made some serious blunders during this war(s) but if politics can't support going in and kicking ass then what is the use?

you are right about the "odd theory" part. But I do not dismiss it out of hand.

Like I said, Saddam was a bad guy, but from a realpolitik perspective, he was an ally in the war against radical wahabbism. That is a fact. And DC politics hasn't prevented the military from doing their job... the fact is, that the "job" was not possible and beyond the scope of what the military is supposed to do. If you sit me down next to Lake Michigan and tell me to empty it and you give me a teacup, you can come back in a week and complain that I haven't done what you asked, but it really is not my fault, but YOURS in defining a mission that was beyond my ability and giving me insufficient tools to even realistically attempt it. Wet nursing multicultural Jeffersonian democracy is not a realistic mission for the US military... and I don't care HOW many troops you surge into Iraq, it still is not realistic.

And regarding the spirited debate in DC and on places like this, the following quote from today's Washington Post is germane:

"A top Pentagon leader weighed in yesterday on the war debate and appeared to undercut the argument advanced by the White House and many GOP lawmakers that a congressional debate challenging the Bush plan would hurt troop morale.

"There's no doubt in my mind that the dialogue here in Washington strengthens our democracy. Period," Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, testified before the House Armed Services Committee. He added that potential enemies may take some comfort from the rancor but said they "don't have a clue how democracy works."

 

[glockmail]

again... there are all sorts of different varieties and flavors of "terrorists" in the world. And I firmly believe that America ought not to waste the blood of our soldiers, nor the treasure of our citizens, nor the goodwill of our allies in trying to police all of them. The "terrorists" training at Salman Pak were not the flavor or variety of terrorist that attacked us. That's the truth... and it does suck that we have spent so much of the aforementioned blood, treasure and goodwill on this debacle in Iraq which has little to nothing to do with the folks who attacked us.

Radical Islamist Terrorists are Radical Islamist Terrorists. They all need to be killed in order for freedom and security of the US.

And bin Laden was supported by Saddam. Facts are facts.

 

[glockmail]

Glock simply doesn't understand that the people trained in Kurdistan weren't under Saddam Hussein's control.

That little bit of information escapes him.

Sweet cheeks herself is back! And wrong as usual.

 

[maineman]

Radical Islamist Terrorists are Radical Islamist Terrorists. They all need to be killed in order for freedom and security of the US.

And bin Laden was supported by Saddam. Facts are facts.

radical arab nationalist terrorists who happen to be muslim are not all radical islamic terrorists who seek to do harm to the United States.

bin Laden was NOT supported by Saddam and you have no facts to back up that ridiculous assertions, only opinions, whereas I have several bi-partisan and non-partisan sources to back up my assertions to the contrary. Deal with it. Ansar al Islam was NOT a bin Laden organization.... you really are in over you head here sweetheart. Go back to the cooking section and upload some brownie recipes

 

[glockmail]

and you need to know that that axiom does not work when the enemy of your enemy is also your enemy. Deer do not befriend coyotes during hunting season simply because man is after both of them.... and coyotes do not stop hungering for deer during the same season.

Conducting foreign policy by relying solely on overly simplistic adolescent aphorisms is clearly what has gotten us in this mess, and it is clearly what drove the electorate to boot your incompetent and inept butts out of power in congress. No doubt, THAT truth sucks for you, if you in fact have the courage to face it.

Actually it is an Arabian Proverb: http://www.quotationsbook.com/quotes/16235/view Your analogy with wildlife is silly.

Actually I'm a Conservative, and more conservatives were elected to congress last time than whiny libs like yourself.