Pakistan & US Relations

[Wry Catcher]

Pakistan wants to reduce the US Military presence in thier country because of the raid on OBL.

Pakistan army wants cut in US military personnel - Yahoo! News

Is it time to cut their aid? How soon until Pakistan gives nuclear technology (again) to another of our foes, see: Pakistan, The World's Fifth Largest Nuclear Power : NPR

World politics is a very complicated matter, too bad our leaders in both parties cannot work together in the best interest of our nation. The divisive nature of our internal politics maybe as great a danger as AQ or terrorists in general.

 

[High_Gravity]

We need to cut their aid for sure but the thing is as long as we have US Troops on the ground in Afghanistan we are going to need the Pakistanis help, this is a relationship of necessity not love, we need to get out of Afghanistan before we can start cutting $$$$ to the Pakistanis.

 

[Avatar4321]

The problem with cutting aid and presence with Pakistan is that doing so creates incredible instability in nuclear state.

All this destabalizing in the Middle East at the same time is incredible dangerous. especially when Nukes are involved.

Personally, I don't want to be funding them with any money, but I don't have any intelligence reports that indicate what would happen if we cut funding completely. I don't want us doing something rash with a nuclear power.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Take their nukes and pull out.

 

[waltky]

The unintended consequences of American funding in Pakistan...

The Double Game
May 16, 2011 - The unintended consequences of American funding in Pakistan.

It’s the end of the Second World War, and the United States is deciding what to do about two immense, poor, densely populated countries in Asia. America chooses one of the countries, becoming its benefactor. Over the decades, it pours billions of dollars into that country’s economy, training and equipping its military and its intelligence services. The stated goal is to create a reliable ally with strong institutions and a modern, vigorous democracy. The other country, meanwhile, is spurned because it forges alliances with America’s enemies. The country not chosen was India, which “tilted” toward the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Pakistan became America’s protégé, firmly supporting its fight to contain Communism. The benefits that Pakistan accrued from this relationship were quickly apparent: in the nineteen-sixties, its economy was an exemplar. India, by contrast, was a byword for basket case. Fifty years then went by. What was the result of this social experiment?

India has become the state that we tried to create in Pakistan. It is a rising economic star, militarily powerful and democratic, and it shares American interests. Pakistan, however, is one of the most anti-American countries in the world, and a covert sponsor of terrorism. Politically and economically, it verges on being a failed state. And, despite Pakistani avowals to the contrary, America’s worst enemy, Osama bin Laden, had been hiding there for years—in strikingly comfortable circumstances—before U.S. commandos finally tracked him down and killed him, on May 2nd. American aid is hardly the only factor that led these two countries to such disparate outcomes. But, at this pivotal moment, it would be a mistake not to examine the degree to which U.S. dollars have undermined our strategic relationship with Pakistan—and created monstrous contradictions within Pakistan itself.

American money began flowing into Pakistan in 1954, when a mutual defense agreement was signed. During the next decade, nearly two and a half billion dollars in economic assistance, and seven hundred million in military aid, went to Pakistan. After the 1965 Pakistan-India war began, the U.S. essentially withdrew aid to both countries. Gradually, U.S. economic aid was restored, but the Pakistani military was kept on probation. Those civilian-aid programs were largely successful. Christine Fair, a specialist on South Asia at the Center for Peace and Security Studies, at Georgetown University, notes that the original model for economic assistance was “demand driven”—local groups or governments proposed projects and applied for grants. Aid usually came in the form of matching funds, so that grantees had a stake in the projects. Moreover, American specialists presided over the disbursement of these funds and served as managers. “That was effective,” Fair says. “But we haven’t done it for decades.”

Then, in 1979, U.S. intelligence discovered that Pakistan was secretly building a uranium-enrichment facility in response to India’s nuclear-weapons program. That April, the military dictator of Pakistan, General Mohammed Zia-ul-Haq, hanged the civilian President he had expelled from office, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto; he then cancelled elections. U.S. aid came to a halt. At the same time, Zia began giving support to an Islamist organization, Jamaat-e-Islami, the forerunner of many more radical groups to come. In November, a mob of Jamaat followers, inflamed by a rumor that the U.S. and Israel were behind an attack on the Grand Mosque, in Mecca, burned the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad to the ground, killing two Americans and two Pakistani employees. The American romance with Pakistan was over, but the marriage was just about to begin.

Read more U.S. Support for Pakistan: A Long Messy History : The New Yorker

 

[sinister59]

Pakistan wants to reduce the US Military presence in thier country because of the raid on OBL.

Pakistan army wants cut in US military personnel - Yahoo! News

Is it time to cut their aid? How soon until Pakistan gives nuclear technology (again) to another of our foes, see: Pakistan, The World's Fifth Largest Nuclear Power : NPR

World politics is a very complicated matter, too bad our leaders in both parties cannot work together in the best interest of our nation. The divisive nature of our internal politics maybe as great a danger as AQ or terrorists in general.

and ? they were hiding ben laden , they knew here he was , the only reason they helped at all is because rice told them we would bomb them back to the stone ages if they didn't .

their not our friends .

 

[waltky]

Journalist slain for writing about al-Qaida/Pakistani Navy connection...

Pakistani journalist who wrote about military's links to al-Qaida found slain
May 31, 2011 - A Pakistani journalist who vanished after writing about alleged links between al-Qaida and Pakistan's navy was found slain Tuesday.

A Pakistani journalist who vanished after writing about alleged links between al-Qaida and Pakistan's navy was found slain Tuesday. Colleagues said the reporter had complained of receiving threats in recent months from members of the nation's powerful intelligence community. Syed Saleem Shahzad had been missing since Sunday evening, when he failed to show up at a television studio in Islamabad where he was scheduled to appear on a program. His body was found near the town of Mandi Bahauddin, about 75 miles southeast of the capital. His friends said the body showed signs of torture.

Shahzad, the Pakistan bureau chief for the Asia Times Online news website, had recently written a story that claimed al-Qaida had infiltrated the ranks of the navy. The story, which appeared on the website after militants carried out a 17-hour siege on a naval base in Karachi on May 23, also asserted that the attack was meant as retaliation for the military's refusal to release a group of naval officials suspected of having militant links. Ten security personnel were killed in the siege. The attack also proved deeply embarrassing for the military, which already had been facing strong criticism from within the country for allowing U.S. helicopters to slip into Pakistan undetected during the raid that killed Osama bin Laden on May 2.

In recent months, Shahzad, 40, had told colleagues that he had been warned by intelligence agents to stop writing about sensitive matters, and that he feared for his life. In October, Shahzad told Ali Dayan Hasan, South Asia researcher for Human Rights Watch, that he had been summoned to the headquarters of the Inter-Services Intelligence agency, where he received what he saw as a veiled threat from a top official. The Committee to Protect Journalists listed Pakistan as the world's most dangerous country for reporters in 2010, with eight journalists killed there during the year. Shahzad was the third reporter slain in Pakistan this year; a television reporter was gunned down in Karachi in January, and a journalist in the northwest city of Peshawar died May 10 when his car exploded.

Also:

Bin Laden probe: Pakistan's government on Tuesday named the members of a commission tasked with probing the U.S. raid that killed Osama bin Laden, including how it come about that the al-Qaida chief was living in a Pakistani garrison city. Parliament passed a resolution earlier this month demanding that an independent commission — as opposed to one led by the military — investigate the May 2 incursion, which deeply humiliated Pakistani leaders.

Source

 

[B. Kidd]

Pakistan continues to play us like a fiddle.

 

[waltky]

Big ol' Pak cover-up goin' on...

What Pakistan's ISI doesn't want the world to know about Osama bin Laden's couriers
May 31, 2011 - Residents of the couriers' hometown report being intimidated by intelligence agencies, which are under the spotlight today after a prominent Pakistani journalist was found dead.

Osama bin Laden’s couriers, Arshad and Tariq Khan – who were killed alongside him during the raid on his compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan – were born and raised in Kuwait after their Pakistani father settled there to become an imam, according to relatives and other residents in their ancestral village. The residents’ accounts, confirmed by a Pakistan security official, suggest the couriers may have become radicalized in Kuwait. Meanwhile, the residents also report being intimidated by intelligence agencies, which are under the spotlight today after a prominent Pakistani journalist has been found dead.

Pakistan’s intelligence agencies swooped in to detain cousins and other close relatives of the couriers from Kotkai, a village in Pakistan’s mountainous Shangla district last week – weeks after Mr. bin Laden’s death on May 2. A similar raid in the city of Lahore picked up a handful of relatives. Residents in Kotkai say they were warned not to speak to the media about the people who were taken away, and many remain shaken by the events. “We were visited by security officials last week and we were told we shouldn’t speak to the media," says a school teacher who asked that his name be withheld for fear of reprisal. "People here are very afraid that they could be picked up next.”

Speaking on condition of anonymity, residents and close relatives of the men told the Monitor that the men’s father, Manjoor Khan, migrated to Kuwait in 1970 to become an imam employed by Kuwait’s religious affairs department and changed his name to the more Arab-sounding Ahmad Syed al-Kuwaiti. Previous reports have placed the Khan brothers, known to the neighbors in Abbottabad as the popular “Khan-jees,” as residents of Charsadda or the North Waziristan tribal region. In addition to Arshad and Tariq, al-Kuwaiti fathered four more sons, one of whom, Ibrahim, returned to the village to get married some 15 years ago. The other brothers were said to have not returned.

Intimidation campaign

 

[waltky]

B. Kidd wrote: Pakistan continues to play us like a fiddle.

Pakistan Playing the U.S. Like A “Bad Fiddle”
Wednesday, June 01, 2011 – Republican Congressman and retired Army veteran Allen West (R-Fla.) said the United States has continued to pursue a relationship with Pakistan while getting played like a “bad fiddle.”

“We don’t need Pakistan to be successful but as long as you continue to let them believe that you need them, they’re going to play you like a bad fiddle and that’s exactly what’s happening,” said West at the Heritage Foundation on Tuesday. “I was one of the first guys who came out and said that we do need to cut off this funding to Pakistan. Look, I spent two and a half years in Kandahar and any time we put pressure on the Taliban, they went to Pakistan. Now there’s a reason why all of a sudden these groups are finding sanctuary there. They feel that they’re not going to be bothered too much.”

West added, “In that part of the word, it’s very simple. People understand one thing – strength. They don’t understand compromise. They don’t understand negotiations. They definitely don’t respect appeasement.” Other members of Congress like Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) have said that now is not the time to cut off foreign aid to Pakistan.

“We need a good relationship with Pakistan. I hope we can have that good relationship with Pakistan. But this isn’t the time to start flexing our muscles,” Reid said. McConnell said he does not think “disengaging from Pakistan, a nuclear power, in America is of best interest.” U.S. and Pakistan’s relationship was thrust back into the spotlight after U.S. Navy SEALs killed Al Qaeda terrorist leader and 9/11 attack mastermind Osama bin Laden in a raid of his compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan where he reportedly had been hiding for years.

Source

 

[waltky]

ISI did it...

US links Pakistan's ISI to journalist killing: Report
Jul 5, 2011, WASHINGTON: US officials believe Pakistan's spy agency was behind the killing of a Pakistani journalist who reported that Islamist militants had infiltrated the military, the New York Times reported on Monday.

The newspaper quoted two senior officials as saying that intelligence showed that senior members of Pakistan's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency ordered the killing of Saleem Shahzad, 40, to muzzle criticism. The report was likely to further raise tensions between the uneasy allies following the US commando raid north of Islamabad in May that killed Al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden and was carried out without Pakistan's knowledge. One of the US officials quoted by the Times described the actions of the ISI -- which has historic ties to Islamist militants in neighboring Afghanistan and disputed Kashmir -- as "barbaric and unacceptable."

It quoted another senior official as saying: "Every indication is that this was a deliberate, targeted killing that was most likely meant to send shock waves through Pakistan's journalist community and civil society." The ISI has denied as "baseless" allegations that it was involved in the murder of Shahzad. The reporter, who worked for an Italian news agency and a Hong Kong-registered news site, went missing en route to a television talk show and his body was found last week south of the capital, bearing marks of torture.

A senior South Asia researcher at Human Rights Watch, Ali Dayan Hasan, said that the 40-year-old had recently complained of threats from the ISI, adding: "In the past the ISI has been involved in similar incidents." Shahzad disappeared two days after writing an investigative report in Asia Times Online saying Al-Qaeda carried out a recent attack on a naval air base to avenge the arrest of naval officials held on suspicion of al-Qaida links.

An ISI official said last week that Shahzad's "unfortunate and tragic" death was a "source of concern for the entire nation" but "should not be used to target and malign the country's security agencies". The government has ordered an inquiry into the kidnapping and murder, pledging that the culprits would be brought to justice, but angry journalists say past investigations into killings of journalists have come to nothing.

Source

 

[waltky]

Granny says tell `em to stick dat in their hooka an' smoke it...

NY Times: US Suspends Millions in Military Aid to Pakistan
Sunday, July 10th, 2011 - A leading U.S. newspaper says Washington is “suspending and, in some cases, canceling” hundreds of millions of dollars of aid to the Pakistani military.

The New York Times cites three unnamed senior U.S. officials who say the move is aimed at chastening Pakistan for expelling American military trainers and to press Pakistan's army to fight militants “more effectively.”

The newspaper says about $800 million in military aid and equipment, or over one-third of the more than $2 billion in annual American security assistance to Pakistan, could be affected.

The newspaper reports the aid curtailment is “clearly intended” to force the Pakistani military to choose between backing the country that finances much of its operations, or continuing to provide “secret support” for the Taliban and other militants fighting American soldiers in Afghanistan.

The New York Times reports the unidentified U.S. officials say equipment deliveries and aid would probably resume if relations between the U.S. and Pakistan improve and if Pakistan makes a commitment to pursue terrorists more aggressively. Ties between Washington and Islamabad have been frayed since the surprise U.S. raid that killed al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden in Pakistan in early May.

Source

 

[LibocalypseNow]

We got those responsible for 911 so it's time to wrap it all up over there. Time to get out of Afghanistan & Pakistan. Most Americans have no interest in more Nation-Building and fighting a Drug War over there. It's time to come home. Pakistan has used us for years. They've always played a Double-Game with us. Now is the perfect time to say enough is enough and goodbye. Bin Laden's dead and that's no thanks to Pakistan. So lets get the Hell out of there.