Painting Interior Walls Stained With Nicotine

[Ringel05]

Do not, do not, do not!!!! Paint your interior walls with oil based paint!!! Once that has been done and you or someone else (if you sell) wants to paint with latex the walls will have to be stripped or torn out and redone.
Hopefully the walls are not already painted with oil base. If so you will have to use an oil base paint to repaint.
The newer matte and eggshell finishes on quality paint cleans just as well as semi-gloss which I also would strongly discourage you from using on walls for reasons similar to the one stated above.
Kilz followed by a very good quality latex paint, I personally use Sherwin Williams and avoid Behr and Duron at all costs.

Ringel, the Sherwin-Williams guy says you can repaint latex over oil (and vise versa) as long as the surface is protected from extreme changes in temperature. He says basically you can do any interior surface and some exterior ones (depends on the ambient temperature).

I'm pretty used to depending on Sherwin-Williams, but your comment has made me nervous.

Maybe there has been changes in latex adhesion properties in respect to covering oil based paint, I don't know. But the one thing I learned early on was never use latex over oil, it will eventually crack and peel regardless of temperature changes, even interior walls 'breathe' (expand and contract). Though like I said, there maybe changes to latex paints I'm unaware of.

 

[FireFly]

I have washed the walls with muriatic acid but there's no difference in their appearance. After researching on the 'net and talking to the Sherwin-Williams guy, this is what I have decided to do:

Paint the walls with a tinted, oil-based primer, of good quality. Probably Cover-Stain oil based primer from Zinsser. The thought is, if the color is in the primer, no finish coat of paint will be needed.

First - Of all Cigarette Smoke have a pH level of 5.3 & Pipe and Cigar Smoke have a pH level of 8.5 & to clean something you must get the pH to 7.0 = Pure Water. I am guessing you are a cigarette smoker so the brown tar on your walls is at pH 5.3 so the muriatic acid you used made that stick to the wall even harder because it had a pH of 1.0. You should have used a base & not an acid to clean the smoke. Now the acid made your wall even more acidic. I would now use Soap, Ammonia & Water or Bleach, Soap & Water to clean the Brown Smoke off the walls. (Caution - do not mix Ammonia & Bleach together or poisen gas smoke will develope & vaporise out of your cleaning water)

Second - Find out what type of paint is already on your walls before you paint oil base on them. Oil base paint can only be painted over oil base paint & not over latex paint. Latex paint can be painted over anything.

Third - If you are going to continue to smoke in the house then your finish should be as glossy as you can stand, so the smoke will not penetrate & can be easily cleaned off.

 

[uscitizen]

KILZ, its covers anything

That is what I was thinking, my mother who paints quite a bit really likes it.

I like KILZ too, but it is water based and not expected to have the necessary coverage. Is there a super-KILZ?

Yes there is it is a white shellack based primer. I have used it to paint over crayon drawings on the wall and had no bleed thru. It is a primer though and a latex or oil topcoat will be needed.

It is alcohol based and will be quite stinky, ventilate well.
But it dries VERY fast.
Not real cheap either but seals anything.

 

[Madeline]

I have washed the walls with muriatic acid but there's no difference in their appearance. After researching on the 'net and talking to the Sherwin-Williams guy, this is what I have decided to do:

Paint the walls with a tinted, oil-based primer, of good quality. Probably Cover-Stain oil based primer from Zinsser. The thought is, if the color is in the primer, no finish coat of paint will be needed.

First - of all Cigarette Smoke have a pH level of 5.3 & Pipe and Cigar Smoke have a pH level of 8.5 & to clean something you must get the pH to 7.0 = Pure Water. I am guessing you are a cigarette smoker so the brown tar on your walls is at pH 5.3 so the muriatic acid you used made that stick to the wall even harder because it had a pH of 1.0. You should have used a base & not an acid to clean the smoke. Now the acid made your wall even more acidic. I would now use Soap, Ammonia & Water or Bleach, Soap & Water to clean the Brown Smoke off the walls.

Second - find out what type of paint is already on your walls before you paint oil base on them. Oil base paint can only be painted over oil base paint & not over latex paint. Latex paint can be painted over anything.

Third - If you are going to continue to smoke in the house then your finish should be as glossy as you can stand, so the smoke will not penetrate & can be easily cleaned off.

The walls were a royal pain in the ass to wash...and NOW I learn I only made matters worse? God damned 'net bullshit information....grrrrs. That took me freaking DAYS and I killed my arms trying to get them clean.

The walls have been painted with Sherwin-Williams latex. I can find the exact brand if you need it.

I cannot paint an oil based primer over latex? May I ask why that is? (Just curious.) Seems like KILZ makes the most sense.

Anyone ever tinted primer to avoid having to paint later? Did it work?

You're a whiz FireFly...thankies!

 

[Zoom-boing]

I already gave advice in my pm and won't repeat but just wanted to add that we have semi-gloss finish on most of the walls in our house and while it does clean much easier than flat, when you wipe a dirty area it gets 'shinier' and you can see that. You can't do touch up painting with semi-gloss as well because I've found you always see where you started/stopped. With flat it doesn't clean nearly as well but you can touch up spots and you won't see where you painted. Again, this is just what I've observed.

I'd give the walls another go with a degreaser. Isn't nicotine sticky? My hubs smokes (in the garage and in his car) and his steering wheel always feels sticky to me and his windshield gets a coating on it. I'd think you'd want to cut that down as much as possible so whatever primer you put on the walls would stick. Good luck!

 

[Zoom-boing]

I have washed the walls with muriatic acid but there's no difference in their appearance. After researching on the 'net and talking to the Sherwin-Williams guy, this is what I have decided to do:

Paint the walls with a tinted, oil-based primer, of good quality. Probably Cover-Stain oil based primer from Zinsser. The thought is, if the color is in the primer, no finish coat of paint will be needed.

First - of all Cigarette Smoke have a pH level of 5.3 & Pipe and Cigar Smoke have a pH level of 8.5 & to clean something you must get the pH to 7.0 = Pure Water. I am guessing you are a cigarette smoker so the brown tar on your walls is at pH 5.3 so the muriatic acid you used made that stick to the wall even harder because it had a pH of 1.0. You should have used a base & not an acid to clean the smoke. Now the acid made your wall even more acidic. I would now use Soap, Ammonia & Water or Bleach, Soap & Water to clean the Brown Smoke off the walls.

Second - find out what type of paint is already on your walls before you paint oil base on them. Oil base paint can only be painted over oil base paint & not over latex paint. Latex paint can be painted over anything.

Third - If you are going to continue to smoke in the house then your finish should be as glossy as you can stand, so the smoke will not penetrate & can be easily cleaned off.

The walls were a royal pain in the ass to wash...and NOW I learn I only made matters worse? God damned 'net bullshit information....grrrrs. That took me freaking DAYS and I killed my arms trying to get them clean.

The walls have been painted with Sherwin-Williams latex. I can find the exact brand if you need it.

I cannot paint an oil based primer over latex? May I ask why that is? (Just curious.) Seems like KILZ makes the most sense.

Anyone ever tinted primer to avoid having to paint later? Did it work?

You're a whiz FireFly...thankies!

Yes they can tint the primer but I don't know if they tint it to an exact match of color or just a light version of that color to make painting easier. I've seen primers tinted when someone was painting a wall a deep red just to help with the coverage of the red paint. You can just use primer (rather than primer then paint) but primer is flat.

 

[Ringel05]

I have washed the walls with muriatic acid but there's no difference in their appearance. After researching on the 'net and talking to the Sherwin-Williams guy, this is what I have decided to do:

Paint the walls with a tinted, oil-based primer, of good quality. Probably Cover-Stain oil based primer from Zinsser. The thought is, if the color is in the primer, no finish coat of paint will be needed.

First - of all Cigarette Smoke have a pH level of 5.3 & Pipe and Cigar Smoke have a pH level of 8.5 & to clean something you must get the pH to 7.0 = Pure Water. I am guessing you are a cigarette smoker so the brown tar on your walls is at pH 5.3 so the muriatic acid you used made that stick to the wall even harder because it had a pH of 1.0. You should have used a base & not an acid to clean the smoke. Now the acid made your wall even more acidic. I would now use Soap, Ammonia & Water or Bleach, Soap & Water to clean the Brown Smoke off the walls.

Second - find out what type of paint is already on your walls before you paint oil base on them. Oil base paint can only be painted over oil base paint & not over latex paint. Latex paint can be painted over anything.

Third - If you are going to continue to smoke in the house then your finish should be as glossy as you can stand, so the smoke will not penetrate & can be easily cleaned off.

The walls were a royal pain in the ass to wash...and NOW I learn I only made matters worse? God damned 'net bullshit information....grrrrs. That took me freaking DAYS and I killed my arms trying to get them clean.

The walls have been painted with Sherwin-Williams latex. I can find the exact brand if you need it.

I cannot paint an oil based primer over latex? May I ask why that is? (Just curious.) Seems like KILZ makes the most sense.

Anyone ever tinted primer to avoid having to paint later? Did it work?

You're a whiz FireFly...thankies!

Oil based paints dry hard and don't 'move', latex is a pliable rubber product and does 'move'. I'm sorry but I forget, you can put latex over oil with some proper prep work. Like painting flat or eggshell over semi-gloss you have to sand the walls to provide a scored surface for the latex to have something to adhere to.
Sorry for the confusion, I had an 'oldtimers' moment and got the two mixed up. Duh!

 

[FireFly]

I have washed the walls with muriatic acid but there's no difference in their appearance. After researching on the 'net and talking to the Sherwin-Williams guy, this is what I have decided to do:

Paint the walls with a tinted, oil-based primer, of good quality. Probably Cover-Stain oil based primer from Zinsser. The thought is, if the color is in the primer, no finish coat of paint will be needed.

First - of all Cigarette Smoke have a pH level of 5.3 & Pipe and Cigar Smoke have a pH level of 8.5 & to clean something you must get the pH to 7.0 = Pure Water. I am guessing you are a cigarette smoker so the brown tar on your walls is at pH 5.3 so the muriatic acid you used made that stick to the wall even harder because it had a pH of 1.0. You should have used a base & not an acid to clean the smoke. Now the acid made your wall even more acidic. I would now use Soap, Ammonia & Water or Bleach, Soap & Water to clean the Brown Smoke off the walls.

Second - find out what type of paint is already on your walls before you paint oil base on them. Oil base paint can only be painted over oil base paint & not over latex paint. Latex paint can be painted over anything.

Third - If you are going to continue to smoke in the house then your finish should be as glossy as you can stand, so the smoke will not penetrate & can be easily cleaned off.

The walls were a royal pain in the ass to wash...and NOW I learn I only made matters worse? God damned 'net bullshit information....grrrrs. That took me freaking DAYS and I killed my arms trying to get them clean.

The walls have been painted with Sherwin-Williams latex. I can find the exact brand if you need it.

I cannot paint an oil based primer over latex? May I ask why that is? (Just curious.) Seems like KILZ makes the most sense.

Anyone ever tinted primer to avoid having to paint later? Did it work?

You're a whiz FireFly...thankies!

Actually I checked with a painter & he disagrees with the retailer I talked with about oil over latex. Painters say it will work just fine if you use the killz oil primer. Some painters say latex over oil will peel like a sunburn.

Also use paint that has titanium dioxide listed as first ingredient on the list instead of water.

 

[Paulie]

Any latex primer is good enough.

There's absolutely no reason whatsoever to use an oil based primer for this.

some of you guys are putting WAY too much thought into this.

By the way OP, tinting the primer is counter-productive. It weakens the integrity of the primer when colorants are added to it.

Sometimes you can get away with a 50% tint, but you don't have any reason to do that. Just prime it with a name-brand latex primer, and give it a finish coat with latex.

I've been a painter for years, I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Paulie]

First - of all Cigarette Smoke have a pH level of 5.3 & Pipe and Cigar Smoke have a pH level of 8.5 & to clean something you must get the pH to 7.0 = Pure Water. I am guessing you are a cigarette smoker so the brown tar on your walls is at pH 5.3 so the muriatic acid you used made that stick to the wall even harder because it had a pH of 1.0. You should have used a base & not an acid to clean the smoke. Now the acid made your wall even more acidic. I would now use Soap, Ammonia & Water or Bleach, Soap & Water to clean the Brown Smoke off the walls.

Second - find out what type of paint is already on your walls before you paint oil base on them. Oil base paint can only be painted over oil base paint & not over latex paint. Latex paint can be painted over anything.

Third - If you are going to continue to smoke in the house then your finish should be as glossy as you can stand, so the smoke will not penetrate & can be easily cleaned off.

The walls were a royal pain in the ass to wash...and NOW I learn I only made matters worse? God damned 'net bullshit information....grrrrs. That took me freaking DAYS and I killed my arms trying to get them clean.

The walls have been painted with Sherwin-Williams latex. I can find the exact brand if you need it.

I cannot paint an oil based primer over latex? May I ask why that is? (Just curious.) Seems like KILZ makes the most sense.

Anyone ever tinted primer to avoid having to paint later? Did it work?

You're a whiz FireFly...thankies!

Oil based paints dry hard and don't 'move', latex is a pliable rubber product and does 'move'. I'm sorry but I forget, you can put latex over oil with some proper prep work. Like painting flat or eggshell over semi-gloss you have to sand the walls to provide a scored surface for the latex to have something to adhere to.
Sorry for the confusion, I had an 'oldtimers' moment and got the two mixed up. Duh!

You should sand ANY surface that you paint.

I don't where you people are coming up with this idea that you can't put a latex finish over a previous oil based coat. It doesn't fucking matter.

 

[Paulie]

This is the product I recommend, it is better than kilz or Zinsser (although I do like Zinsser products).

I've used this product on countless different jobs with stained walls, including smoke stains, and it's all you need. I promise.

 

[Oddball]

I have washed the walls with muriatic acid but there's no difference in their appearance. After researching on the 'net and talking to the Sherwin-Williams guy, this is what I have decided to do:

Paint the walls with a tinted, oil-based primer, of good quality. Probably Cover-Stain oil based primer from Zinsser. The thought is, if the color is in the primer, no finish coat of paint will be needed.

First - Of all Cigarette Smoke have a pH level of 5.3 & Pipe and Cigar Smoke have a pH level of 8.5 & to clean something you must get the pH to 7.0 = Pure Water. I am guessing you are a cigarette smoker so the brown tar on your walls is at pH 5.3 so the muriatic acid you used made that stick to the wall even harder because it had a pH of 1.0. You should have used a base & not an acid to clean the smoke. Now the acid made your wall even more acidic. I would now use Soap, Ammonia & Water or Bleach, Soap & Water to clean the Brown Smoke off the walls. (Caution - do not mix Ammonia & Bleach together or poisen gas smoke will develope & vaporise out of your cleaning water)

Second - Find out what type of paint is already on your walls before you paint oil base on them. Oil base paint can only be painted over oil base paint & not over latex paint. Latex paint can be painted over anything.

Third - If you are going to continue to smoke in the house then your finish should be as glossy as you can stand, so the smoke will not penetrate & can be easily cleaned off.

A solution of trisodium phosphate might be a good wash for the walls.

After that, I'd use Kilz to prime.

 

[Madeline]

Dude, you were right on the money. My Sherwin-Williams guy told me that no one, least of all a smoker, can leave the walls unpainted after putting a primer on, in part because a primer is a flat surfaced-paint. The thought of painting that room twice (plus the odor from an oil paint in the weather we've had) discouraged me, so I painted the bathroom.

The nice thing is, that to paint it I first had to clean it thoroughly and I realized the toilet was cracked at the base. And the laminate on the vanity was separating down near the floor because of it. My housing association has some limited duty to maintain my home, so I was able to get new fixtures! I still have to paint the ceiling and touch up the walls again, but I have a renovated bathroom, and I am just over the moon. (Takes very little, really, to please me. I sure could never have afforded this on my own.)

So lemme post some photos of the bathroom in progress. Like a dummy I forgot to take any before the work started, but believe me the pedestal sink and new toilet make an enormous difference.

Has anyone ever painted a porcelain surface? My bathub looks shabby now....is this something a DIY-er can do?

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[PixieStix]

My kitchen caught fire once, and the walls were black and gray from the smoke.

I first cleaned the walls with ammonia, then I used Kilz, then I proceeded to paint the walls a nice midnight blue. It covered it well, the ceiling was painted with kilz, then painted with a semi gloss finish so I could clean it easily. It motivated me to redecorate my entire kitchen.

 

[Paulie]

My Sherwin-Williams guy told me that no one, least of all a smoker, can leave the walls unpainted after putting a primer on, in part because a primer is a flat surfaced-paint.

Almost any oil primer is NOT a flat finish. You'll find that the finish from an oil primer more closely resembles an egg-shell finish. They typically have a bit of a sheen to them.

I still don't know why you used oil primer for that. If you cleaned the surface you could have simply used a good latex primer and it would have been fine.

I've been in the trade now for years, and one of the things I've come to learn is that everyone's a painter.

Nobody wants to listen to the guy who does it for a living. And I've got news for you, most of the hired help at paint stores don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

 

[Madeline]

My Sherwin-Williams guy told me that no one, least of all a smoker, can leave the walls unpainted after putting a primer on, in part because a primer is a flat surfaced-paint.

Almost any oil primer is NOT a flat finish. You'll find that the finish from an oil primer more closely resembles an egg-shell finish. They typically have a bit of a sheen to them.

I still don't know why you used oil primer for that. If you cleaned the surface you could have simply used a good latex primer and it would have been fine.

I've been in the trade now for years, and one of the things I've come to learn is that everyone's a painter.

Nobody wants to listen to the guy who does it for a living. And I've got news for you, most of the hired help at paint stores don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Well, Paulie, if you're right it'll break my heart. Painting with oil paint sucks so bad. But I have already had them tint that primer so I cannot return it. My Sherwin-Williams guy Down South was fantabulous to me...but I can believe not all paint store employees are that good.

The thing about paint is it's (reasonably) inexpensive -- it's the labor to get it up that hurts. Especially when the laborer is ME.

 

[Paulie]

My Sherwin-Williams guy told me that no one, least of all a smoker, can leave the walls unpainted after putting a primer on, in part because a primer is a flat surfaced-paint.

Almost any oil primer is NOT a flat finish. You'll find that the finish from an oil primer more closely resembles an egg-shell finish. They typically have a bit of a sheen to them.

I still don't know why you used oil primer for that. If you cleaned the surface you could have simply used a good latex primer and it would have been fine.

I've been in the trade now for years, and one of the things I've come to learn is that everyone's a painter.

Nobody wants to listen to the guy who does it for a living. And I've got news for you, most of the hired help at paint stores don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Well, Paulie, if you're right it'll break my heart. Painting with oil paint sucks so bad. But I have already had them tint that primer so I cannot return it. My Sherwin-Williams guy Down South was fantabulous to me...but I can believe not all paint store employees are that good.

The thing about paint is it's (reasonably) inexpensive -- it's the labor to get it up that hurts. Especially when the laborer is ME.

Listen, EVERYONE'S a painter, so it's not wise to go looking online for answers to paint questions. Everyone's got an opinion on it, because everyone thinks it's something they can do well themselves. Trust me, painting PROPERLY is not as easy as people think.

If you had asked a question about, say, cutting out a section of wall to install a door, this thread would have been practically empty.

But either one of those kinds of jobs requires professional advice for someone to complete it properly.

Using oil primer for your job was not WRONG, per se, it was just unnecessary.

And no matter how nice your paint store people are, you should still ask the professionals who actually APPLY the materials. Those guys at the store have a vested interest in selling product, especially during a recession where painting contracts are few and far between, and sales of painting supplies are down hard.

 

[Madeline]

What a nice man you are to share your expertise, Paulie. Thankies so much...I wish I had heard you better before I bought the damned stuff.

Can I store the oil primer for any considerable length of time? Some of my exterior trim needs repainting...could I use it there and get a latex primer for the bedroom instead?

Thankies again. Generous people bowl me over, Paulie.

 

[Paulie]

What a nice man you are to share your expertise, Paulie. Thankies so much...I wish I had heard you better before I bought the damned stuff.

Can I store the oil primer for any considerable length of time? Some of my exterior trim needs repainting...could I use it there and get a latex primer for the bedroom instead?

Thankies again. Generous people bowl me over, Paulie.

That stuff can sit for a while. But you'll have to take a stick and stir up the crap from the bottom of the can and then lid it and give it a really good shake, because the oil tends to separate from the rest of the mixture and sit on top of the crud when it sits for a long time.

Here's the only thing I ever use oil based primers for:

-any metal surfaces
-anywhere wallpaper has been removed, to seal in the leftover glue residue
-water stains
-completely brand new raw wood
-rust spots

If you have trim outside that needs to be painted, you have to scrape all the loose peeling paint off, give it a good sand, and then prime it with this:

It's a latex based exterior primer that's great for bare wood spots. It's actually fine for brand new raw wood too. I only use oil primers on brand new wood if it's interior molding. Otherwise, this product works great. It resists tannin bleed. I'd recommend hitting any spots twice that you use it on. Then just use a regular latex based finish.

I don't know why people think oil primers are so necessary for so many things. They're not worth the trouble in most cases. They're really only necessary for what I mentioned above, and a few other random things that you'd probably never be doing yourself anyway.

 

[Madeline]

What a nice man you are to share your expertise, Paulie. Thankies so much...I wish I had heard you better before I bought the damned stuff.

Can I store the oil primer for any considerable length of time? Some of my exterior trim needs repainting...could I use it there and get a latex primer for the bedroom instead?

Thankies again. Generous people bowl me over, Paulie.

That stuff can sit for a while. But you'll have to take a stick and stir up the crap from the bottom of the can and then lid it and give it a really good shake, because the oil tends to separate from the rest of the mixture and sit on top of the crud when it sits for a long time.

Here's the only thing I ever use oil based primers for:

-any metal surfaces
-anywhere wallpaper has been removed, to seal in the leftover glue residue
-water stains
-completely brand new raw wood
-rust spots

If you have trim outside that needs to be painted, you have to scrape all the loose peeling paint off, give it a good sand, and then prime it with this:

It's a latex based exterior primer that's great for bare wood spots. It's actually fine for brand new raw wood too. I only use oil primers on brand new wood if it's interior molding. Otherwise, this product works great. It resists tannin bleed. I'd recommend hitting any spots twice that you use it on. Then just use a regular latex based finish.

I don't know why people think oil primers are so necessary for so many things. They're not worth the trouble in most cases. They're really only necessary for what I mentioned above, and a few other random things that you'd probably never be doing yourself anyway.

Dagnabit, if only I had not tinted that primer.....

Thabnkies so much Paulie. You have saved me hours and hours of work.