Paddock prescribed antidepressants in June, which means virtually every mass shooter....

Funny that you started this thread. I was just thinking about the same exact thing.

Antianxiety medicines (such as alprazolam, clonazepam, diazepam, and lorazepam) are sometimes used along with antipsychotic medicines to treat a relapse of schizophrenia. These medicines help calm you and relieve anxiety and nervousness. In high doses, they may make you sleepy.

Antianxiety medicines are sometimes used to shorten an episode of psychosis. In rare cases, taking antianxiety medicines makes psychotic symptoms worse.
 
I think that your cause and effect might be a little off.

Do you truly think that the homicidality is due to the medication?

Or could the homicidality be due to the underlying reason the medicine is being prescribed?
There are all sorts of side effects of SSRI or even Valium. Rather well documented. Hell, they even give out the warnings while many drugs are advertised and feelings of suicide is one of those.

Not saying that is the reason for the attack. What I am saying this is yet another mass shooting by someone on prescribed drugs. That is the one we know of. Who knows what others?

What we do know as of now is no forensic psychologist has said this fits anything that is typical.

No criminal history of any signficance?

Just an angle that the media won't report and we can bet why that is.

And the mass shooting was by far more likely to be due to the mental illness than from the medication used to treat the mental illness.
Or maybe a side effect, especially if he mixed with alcohol or other drugs.

There are side effects and risks. Which is one of a few reasons why they are not sold over the counter.

Mood altering or SSRI drugs can and have been proven to be dangerous.

The side-effects of mixing benzos and alcohol causes extreme sedation. It does not cause homicidality.

Plus, we know that he brought an arsenal into the room several days before. So this was quite pre-planned when he wasn't on benzos and alcohol.
There are all sorts of side effects. Typically if you are on a benzodiazepines and mixing with alcohol, you tend to become lethargic etc.

However different sorts of psychosis happens if one is experiencing withdrawals of any kind.

It is apparent that this person must have had a slow dissent into madness. Did prescriptions play a part in it? Is it possible he was experiencing severe withdrawals?

The point is all of those mass shootings were committed by people on mood altering or SSRI drugs. Which, all have documented side effects.

The media will ignore those things. So will the politicians. Mainly due to big pharma and the numbers of lobbyists on their behalf in washington.

First of all, diazepam is not made by Big Pharma. It is generic and inexpensive.

Secondly, he would not be having withdrawals if he received 50 pills on June 21. That means that he consumed 50 pills in 100 days, which would not cause withdrawal. In order to have withdrawal, you need chronic use. (This is assuming that he hadn't received any other prescriptions for that medicine since June 21...but I only know what you posted.)

I read an article about him, and I am thinking more and more that is sounds like schizophrenia or some other type of psychosis. Other than having a girlfriend, he was pretty much a recluse. He was not sociable with neighbors. He spent a lot of time by himself. And it sounds like most of his guns were collected over the past year. A sudden change from not being a gun owner to suddenly start collecting them is a red flag to me, that he started to have changes in his thoughts.

Lots of things can cause psychosis. Schizophrenia onset usually happens in younger people (20s), but it could happen later. Years of drinking alcohol can lead to brain damage and development of psychosis. Drugs and medications can cause it. Tumors. Other medical illnesses.

It will be interesting to see what the investigation finds.

But I don't think that this was caused by 50 tabs of diazepam.
 
Diazapam is Valium. My wife takes them for her vertigo and has for years. She hasn't killed anyone yet. It helps people sleep too.

If he didn't take it, he would have been a much better shot and more awake.

That doesn't mean anything. Plenty of people have negative reactions to meds that may not affect others in the same way. Our metabolisms and body chemistries are different enough that these types of drugs can have untoward reactions in SOME individuals. That certainly doesn't mean that everyone who takes them will be affected in such ways. In fact, these side affects (according to the POWERS THAT BE, of course) are RARE. It is awfully coincidental that many of these mass murderers were being medicated with powerful psychotropic drugs though. It is definitely worth looking into.
 
There are all sorts of side effects of SSRI or even Valium. Rather well documented. Hell, they even give out the warnings while many drugs are advertised and feelings of suicide is one of those.

Not saying that is the reason for the attack. What I am saying this is yet another mass shooting by someone on prescribed drugs. That is the one we know of. Who knows what others?

What we do know as of now is no forensic psychologist has said this fits anything that is typical.

No criminal history of any signficance?

Just an angle that the media won't report and we can bet why that is.

And the mass shooting was by far more likely to be due to the mental illness than from the medication used to treat the mental illness.
Or maybe a side effect, especially if he mixed with alcohol or other drugs.

There are side effects and risks. Which is one of a few reasons why they are not sold over the counter.

Mood altering or SSRI drugs can and have been proven to be dangerous.

The side-effects of mixing benzos and alcohol causes extreme sedation. It does not cause homicidality.

Plus, we know that he brought an arsenal into the room several days before. So this was quite pre-planned when he wasn't on benzos and alcohol.
There are all sorts of side effects. Typically if you are on a benzodiazepines and mixing with alcohol, you tend to become lethargic etc.

However different sorts of psychosis happens if one is experiencing withdrawals of any kind.

It is apparent that this person must have had a slow dissent into madness. Did prescriptions play a part in it? Is it possible he was experiencing severe withdrawals?

The point is all of those mass shootings were committed by people on mood altering or SSRI drugs. Which, all have documented side effects.

The media will ignore those things. So will the politicians. Mainly due to big pharma and the numbers of lobbyists on their behalf in washington.

First of all, diazepam is not made by Big Pharma. It is generic and inexpensive.

Secondly, he would not be having withdrawals if he received 50 pills on June 21. That means that he consumed 50 pills in 100 days, which would not cause withdrawal. In order to have withdrawal, you need chronic use. (This is assuming that he hadn't received any other prescriptions for that medicine since June 21...but I only know what you posted.)

I read an article about him, and I am thinking more and more that is sounds like schizophrenia or some other type of psychosis. Other than having a girlfriend, he was pretty much a recluse. He was not sociable with neighbors. He spent a lot of time by himself. And it sounds like most of his guns were collected over the past year. A sudden change from not being a gun owner to suddenly start collecting them is a red flag to me, that he started to have changes in his thoughts.

Lots of things can cause psychosis. Schizophrenia onset usually happens in younger people (20s), but it could happen later. Years of drinking alcohol can lead to brain damage and development of psychosis. Drugs and medications can cause it. Tumors. Other medical illnesses.

It will be interesting to see what the investigation finds.

But I don't think that this was caused by 50 tabs of diazepam.

Spoken like a person with a vested interest in selling and prescribing DRUGS.
 
Noone is doubting that heavy use such chemicals can and do impact someone. In the case of people with psychological problems, how can we rule out the underlying condition? I avoid prescriptions and even OTC pharmaceuticals as best I can. I believe in the ability of the body to heal and balance itself.

If I had high blood pressure and my life might be in danger, I would probably have a different opinion. If I were seeing monsters and were delusional and some medication helped me to cope, I assume I would have to accept that as well compared to the alternative.

Psychological problems, a persons mental breakdown or life changing event can cause all sorts of responses. What I suppose bothers me the most is that he took so many innocent people with him. It's as if he's saying "I'm in this dark and horrible place, I'm bringing you all down with me!" it would be different if maybe he had a personal issue with someone and decided, "well my life is over, I'm gonna take this sob with me because they caused this problem for me". This wasn't the case.

We all know someone or of someone who has committed suicide. It may bother us, but at least they didn't take others with them, it was their choice. This guy was just a dirty animal and an SOB as far as I am concerned. At his age and experience in life, he knew right from wrong and he chose to go down the path to hell. He knew he was going to be gone, that's why he sent $100k to his gf.

As time goes on we will learn more.
 
And the mass shooting was by far more likely to be due to the mental illness than from the medication used to treat the mental illness.
Or maybe a side effect, especially if he mixed with alcohol or other drugs.

There are side effects and risks. Which is one of a few reasons why they are not sold over the counter.

Mood altering or SSRI drugs can and have been proven to be dangerous.

The side-effects of mixing benzos and alcohol causes extreme sedation. It does not cause homicidality.

Plus, we know that he brought an arsenal into the room several days before. So this was quite pre-planned when he wasn't on benzos and alcohol.
There are all sorts of side effects. Typically if you are on a benzodiazepines and mixing with alcohol, you tend to become lethargic etc.

However different sorts of psychosis happens if one is experiencing withdrawals of any kind.

It is apparent that this person must have had a slow dissent into madness. Did prescriptions play a part in it? Is it possible he was experiencing severe withdrawals?

The point is all of those mass shootings were committed by people on mood altering or SSRI drugs. Which, all have documented side effects.

The media will ignore those things. So will the politicians. Mainly due to big pharma and the numbers of lobbyists on their behalf in washington.

First of all, diazepam is not made by Big Pharma. It is generic and inexpensive.

Secondly, he would not be having withdrawals if he received 50 pills on June 21. That means that he consumed 50 pills in 100 days, which would not cause withdrawal. In order to have withdrawal, you need chronic use. (This is assuming that he hadn't received any other prescriptions for that medicine since June 21...but I only know what you posted.)

I read an article about him, and I am thinking more and more that is sounds like schizophrenia or some other type of psychosis. Other than having a girlfriend, he was pretty much a recluse. He was not sociable with neighbors. He spent a lot of time by himself. And it sounds like most of his guns were collected over the past year. A sudden change from not being a gun owner to suddenly start collecting them is a red flag to me, that he started to have changes in his thoughts.

Lots of things can cause psychosis. Schizophrenia onset usually happens in younger people (20s), but it could happen later. Years of drinking alcohol can lead to brain damage and development of psychosis. Drugs and medications can cause it. Tumors. Other medical illnesses.

It will be interesting to see what the investigation finds.

But I don't think that this was caused by 50 tabs of diazepam.

Spoken like a person with a vested interest in selling and prescribing DRUGS.

I don't sell drugs. I prescribe them when needed.
 
Or maybe a side effect, especially if he mixed with alcohol or other drugs.

There are side effects and risks. Which is one of a few reasons why they are not sold over the counter.

Mood altering or SSRI drugs can and have been proven to be dangerous.

The side-effects of mixing benzos and alcohol causes extreme sedation. It does not cause homicidality.

Plus, we know that he brought an arsenal into the room several days before. So this was quite pre-planned when he wasn't on benzos and alcohol.
There are all sorts of side effects. Typically if you are on a benzodiazepines and mixing with alcohol, you tend to become lethargic etc.

However different sorts of psychosis happens if one is experiencing withdrawals of any kind.

It is apparent that this person must have had a slow dissent into madness. Did prescriptions play a part in it? Is it possible he was experiencing severe withdrawals?

The point is all of those mass shootings were committed by people on mood altering or SSRI drugs. Which, all have documented side effects.

The media will ignore those things. So will the politicians. Mainly due to big pharma and the numbers of lobbyists on their behalf in washington.

First of all, diazepam is not made by Big Pharma. It is generic and inexpensive.

Secondly, he would not be having withdrawals if he received 50 pills on June 21. That means that he consumed 50 pills in 100 days, which would not cause withdrawal. In order to have withdrawal, you need chronic use. (This is assuming that he hadn't received any other prescriptions for that medicine since June 21...but I only know what you posted.)

I read an article about him, and I am thinking more and more that is sounds like schizophrenia or some other type of psychosis. Other than having a girlfriend, he was pretty much a recluse. He was not sociable with neighbors. He spent a lot of time by himself. And it sounds like most of his guns were collected over the past year. A sudden change from not being a gun owner to suddenly start collecting them is a red flag to me, that he started to have changes in his thoughts.

Lots of things can cause psychosis. Schizophrenia onset usually happens in younger people (20s), but it could happen later. Years of drinking alcohol can lead to brain damage and development of psychosis. Drugs and medications can cause it. Tumors. Other medical illnesses.

It will be interesting to see what the investigation finds.

But I don't think that this was caused by 50 tabs of diazepam.

Spoken like a person with a vested interest in selling and prescribing DRUGS.

I don't sell drugs. I prescribe them when needed.

Bingo!

You're a drug pusher. A legal dealer.
 
The side-effects of mixing benzos and alcohol causes extreme sedation. It does not cause homicidality.

Plus, we know that he brought an arsenal into the room several days before. So this was quite pre-planned when he wasn't on benzos and alcohol.
There are all sorts of side effects. Typically if you are on a benzodiazepines and mixing with alcohol, you tend to become lethargic etc.

However different sorts of psychosis happens if one is experiencing withdrawals of any kind.

It is apparent that this person must have had a slow dissent into madness. Did prescriptions play a part in it? Is it possible he was experiencing severe withdrawals?

The point is all of those mass shootings were committed by people on mood altering or SSRI drugs. Which, all have documented side effects.

The media will ignore those things. So will the politicians. Mainly due to big pharma and the numbers of lobbyists on their behalf in washington.

First of all, diazepam is not made by Big Pharma. It is generic and inexpensive.

Secondly, he would not be having withdrawals if he received 50 pills on June 21. That means that he consumed 50 pills in 100 days, which would not cause withdrawal. In order to have withdrawal, you need chronic use. (This is assuming that he hadn't received any other prescriptions for that medicine since June 21...but I only know what you posted.)

I read an article about him, and I am thinking more and more that is sounds like schizophrenia or some other type of psychosis. Other than having a girlfriend, he was pretty much a recluse. He was not sociable with neighbors. He spent a lot of time by himself. And it sounds like most of his guns were collected over the past year. A sudden change from not being a gun owner to suddenly start collecting them is a red flag to me, that he started to have changes in his thoughts.

Lots of things can cause psychosis. Schizophrenia onset usually happens in younger people (20s), but it could happen later. Years of drinking alcohol can lead to brain damage and development of psychosis. Drugs and medications can cause it. Tumors. Other medical illnesses.

It will be interesting to see what the investigation finds.

But I don't think that this was caused by 50 tabs of diazepam.

Spoken like a person with a vested interest in selling and prescribing DRUGS.

I don't sell drugs. I prescribe them when needed.

Bingo!

You're a drug pusher. A legal dealer.

If you are talking about pushing drugs for blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, COPD...then yes.

But I don't prescribe narcotic or benzos. I've had a lot of pissed patients walk out when I told them this.
 
Funny that you started this thread. I was just thinking about the same exact thing.

Antianxiety medicines (such as alprazolam, clonazepam, diazepam, and lorazepam) are sometimes used along with antipsychotic medicines to treat a relapse of schizophrenia. These medicines help calm you and relieve anxiety and nervousness. In high doses, they may make you sleepy.

Antianxiety medicines are sometimes used to shorten an episode of psychosis. In rare cases, taking antianxiety medicines makes psychotic symptoms worse.


And yet EVERY mass shooter in American history has been a political jihadist / known political terrorist and / or a person on prescribed psychotropic drugs / under the care of a medical professional.
 
Diazapam is Valium. My wife takes them for her vertigo and has for years. She hasn't killed anyone yet. It helps people sleep too.

If he didn't take it, he would have been a much better shot and more awake.

That doesn't mean anything. Plenty of people have negative reactions to meds that may not affect others in the same way. Our metabolisms and body chemistries are different enough that these types of drugs can have untoward reactions in SOME individuals. That certainly doesn't mean that everyone who takes them will be affected in such ways. In fact, these side affects (according to the POWERS THAT BE, of course) are RARE. It is awfully coincidental that many of these mass murderers were being medicated with powerful psychotropic drugs though. It is definitely worth looking into.

Valium s NOT a powerful psychotropic drug. It is considered one of the safest drugs in the world.
 
I mean really, just take a LOOK at all of the potential side effects of just one of these drugs, lorazepam, which is pretty commonly prescribed, yet WEED is illegal. Lol.

Lorazepam Side Effects in Detail - Drugs.com


For the Consumer
Applies to lorazepam: oral solution, oral tablet

Other dosage forms:

Along with its needed effects, lorazepam may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention.

Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur while taking lorazepam:

More common
  • Drowsiness
  • relaxed and calm
  • sleepiness
Incidence not known
  • Abdominal or stomach pain
  • aggressive, angry
  • agitation
  • attack, assault, or force
  • black, tarry stools
  • bleeding gums
  • blood in the urine or stools
  • bluish lips or skin
  • blurred vision
  • change in consciousness
  • chills
  • coma
  • confusion
  • confusion about identity, place, and time
  • convulsions
  • cough or hoarseness
  • dark urine
  • decreased urine output
  • difficulty with breathing or swallowing
  • difficulty with speaking
  • discouragement
  • dizziness, faintness, or lightheadedness when getting up suddenly from a lying or sitting position
  • drooling
  • dry mouth
  • excitation
  • false or unusual sense of well-being
  • fast or irregular heartbeat
  • feeling sad or empty
  • fever with or without chills
  • general feeling of tiredness or weakness
  • headache
  • hives, itching, or rash
  • hyperventilation
  • increased thirst
  • irregular, fast or slow, or shallow breathing
  • irritability
  • loss of appetite
  • loss of balance control
  • loss of consciousness
  • loss of interest or pleasure
  • loss of memory
  • lower back or side pain
  • muscle pain or cramps
  • muscle trembling, jerking, or stiffness
  • nausea or vomiting
  • not breathing
  • painful or difficult urination
  • pale or blue lips, fingernails, or skin
  • pinpoint red spots on the skin
  • problems with memory
  • puffiness or swelling of the eyelids or around the eyes, face, lips, or tongue
  • reddening of the skin, especially around ears
  • restlessness
  • seeing, hearing, or feeling things that are not there
  • seizures
  • shaking
  • shuffling walk
  • sore throat
  • sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
  • stiffness of the limbs
  • sweating
  • swelling of the eyes or inside of the nose
  • swelling of the face, ankles, or hands
  • swollen glands
  • thoughts or attempts at killing oneself
  • tightness in the chest
  • trouble concentrating
  • trouble sleeping
  • twisting movements of body
  • uncontrolled movements, especially of the face, neck, and back
  • unexplained bleeding or bruising
  • unpleasant breath odor
  • unusual bleeding or bruising
  • unusual tiredness or weakness
  • vomiting of blood
  • yellow eyes or skin
Get emergency help immediately if any of the following symptoms of overdose occur while taking lorazepam:

Symptoms of overdose
  • Changes in patterns and rhythms of speech
  • increased sweating
  • loss of strength or energy
  • nightmares
  • shakiness and unsteady walk
  • slurred speech
  • trouble speaking
  • unsteadiness, trembling, or other problems with muscle control or coordination
  • unusual drowsiness, dullness, tiredness, weakness, or feeling of sluggishness
  • unusual excitement, nervousness, restlessness, or irritability
  • unusual paleness
  • unusual weak feeling
Some side effects of lorazepam may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine. Also, your health care professional may be able to tell you about ways to prevent or reduce some of these side effects. Check with your health care professional if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome or if you have any questions about them:

Incidence not known
  • Being forgetful
  • clumsiness
  • constipation
  • decreased interest in sexual intercourse
  • disturbed color perception
  • dizziness or lightheadedness
  • double vision
  • drowsiness
  • feeling of constant movement of self or surroundings
  • hair loss or thinning of the hair
  • halos around lights
  • inability to have or keep an erection
  • increased in sexual ability, desire, drive, or performance
  • increased interest in sexual intercourse
  • lack or loss of self-control
  • lethargy
  • loss in sexual ability, desire, drive, or performance
  • muscle aches, twitching, or weakness
  • night blindness
  • overbright appearance of lights
  • rapid weight gain
  • sensation of spinning
  • shakiness in the legs, arms, hands, or feet
  • shivering
  • stupor
  • trembling or shaking of the hands or feet
  • tunnel vision
  • weak or feeble pulse
 
Here are some of the side effects of diazepam (brand name - Valium)

For the Consumer
Applies to diazepam: oral capsule extended release, oral solution, oral tablet

Other dosage forms:

Along with its needed effects, diazepam may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention.

Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur while taking diazepam:

More common
  • Shakiness and unsteady walk
  • unsteadiness, trembling, or other problems with muscle control or coordination
Incidence not known
  • Abdominal or stomach pain
  • agitation
  • black, tarry stools
  • blistering, flaking, or peeling of the skin
  • blurred vision
  • changes in patterns and rhythms of speech
  • chills
  • confusion
  • cough
  • dark urine
  • decrease in the frequency of urination
  • decrease in urine volume
  • difficulty in passing urine (dribbling)
  • discouragement
  • dizziness, faintness, or lightheadedness when getting up suddenly from a lying or sitting position
  • false beliefs that cannot be changed by facts
  • fast heartbeat
  • fast or irregular breathing
  • feeling sad or empty
  • feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior
  • feeling that others can hear your thoughts
  • feeling, seeing, or hearing things that are not there
  • fever
  • headache
  • hyperexcitability
  • increased muscle spasms or tone
  • irritability
  • itching or rash
  • lack of memory of what takes place after a certain event
  • loss of appetite
  • loss of bladder control
  • loss of interest or pleasure
  • lower back or side pain
  • nausea
  • nightmares
  • outbursts of anger
  • painful or difficult urination
  • pale skin
  • restlessness
  • seizures
  • slurred speech
  • sore throat
  • sweating
  • trouble concentrating
  • trouble sleeping
  • trouble speaking
  • ulcers, sores, or white spots in the mouth
  • unpleasant breath odor
  • unusual behavior
  • unusual bleeding or bruising
  • unusual feeling of excitement
  • unusual tiredness or weakness
  • vomiting of blood
  • yellow eyes or skin
Get emergency help immediately if any of the following symptoms of overdose occur while taking diazepam:

Symptoms of overdose
  • Change in consciousness
  • difficult or troubled breathing
  • irregular, fast or slow, or shallow breathing
  • lack of coordination
  • loss of consciousness
  • loss of strength or energy
  • muscle pain or weakness
  • pale or blue lips, fingernails, or skin
  • sleepiness
  • unusual drowsiness, dullness, tiredness, weakness, or feeling of sluggishness
Some side effects of diazepam may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine. Also, your health care professional may be able to tell you about ways to prevent or reduce some of these side effects. Check with your health care professional if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome or if you have any questions about them:

Incidence not known
  • Constipation
  • decreased interest in sexual intercourse
  • diarrhea
  • difficulty with swallowing
  • double vision
  • dry mouth
  • feeling of constant movement of self or surroundings
  • inability to have or keep an erection
  • increase in sexual ability, desire, drive, or performance
  • increased interest in sexual intercourse
  • increased watering of the mouth
  • indigestion
  • loss of sexual ability, desire, drive, or performance
  • passing of gas
  • seeing double
  • sensation of spinning
 
Hmm. I'm thinking that some people are probably better off without the psychotropics. We are so dependent upon drugs. Is that the ONLY way you can feel better. What did people used to do in the old days before the days of Valium and all of these "feel good" prescription drugs? They dealt with it in other ways is what they did.
 
Hmm. I'm thinking that some people are probably better off without the psychotropics. We are so dependent upon drugs. Is that the ONLY way you can feel better. What did people used to do in the old days before the days of Valium and all of these "feel good" prescription drugs? They dealt with it in other ways is what they did.

Look up aspirin's side-effects.

Every medicine has potential side-effects, but the vast majority of people that take a particular medicine never get any side-effects. Or they get some side-effects but they are minor and transient.
 
Hmm. I'm thinking that some people are probably better off without the psychotropics. We are so dependent upon drugs. Is that the ONLY way you can feel better. What did people used to do in the old days before the days of Valium and all of these "feel good" prescription drugs? They dealt with it in other ways is what they did.

You might be better off without the psychotropics. But many people are NOT better off without them.
 
Valium causes violent behavior ? It only causes me to get another pillow and listen to some Floyd. Which one is pink ?
 
Hmm. I'm thinking that some people are probably better off without the psychotropics. We are so dependent upon drugs. Is that the ONLY way you can feel better. What did people used to do in the old days before the days of Valium and all of these "feel good" prescription drugs? They dealt with it in other ways is what they did.

Look up aspirin's side-effects.

Every medicine has potential side-effects, but the vast majority of people that take a particular medicine never get any side-effects. Or they get some side-effects but they are minor and transient.

Yes, I know that. I know all about the side effects of meds because of my job. However, these are LISTED side effects which means they were observed during clinical trials or reported by patients. Just because it is rare doesn't mean it doesn't happen and with more and more people being medicated and sent on their way, then you can expect that there are going to be more "bad reactions" to these meds. Besides that, mass shootings are rare, so who is to say that these people didn't experience some side effects? Who would deny the possibility of that? No doctor that I know of!
 

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