Pacers-Pistons Brawl: Good To See Some Fans Get Their Asses Kicked

[dilloduck]

I think the root problem of such incidents at sporting events is the unregulated consumption of alcoholic drinks. Anyone who has attended professional games knows that often the crowd smells like a brewery, and the drunks are just brewing for a fight. What say you?

Alcohol certainly will release some inhibitions that probably shouldn't be released.

 

[Adam's Apple]

Stern says the committee is going to take a long, hard look at crowd control. I hope this will be one item on the agenda.

 

[dilloduck]

Stern says the committee is going to take a long, hard look at crowd control. I hope this will be one item on the agenda.

Me too but good luck getting a bunch of these people to act appropriately in public---they don't even know how to do it at home.

 

[Mr. P]

Its almost all sports now...not just basketball.

Yes, it is in all sports and has been accepted by the Leagues/Owners and arenas...all of em, Basketball, Football, Baseball etc...The acceptance of this sort of behavior from fans has created a Fan monster, that IMO is keeping many others from attending any type of Pro games. It's not just the conduct in the stadium or on the court, this BS has spilled into the streets. It's getting much worse.

As far as I'm concerned it is the leagues/owners and arenas that must deal this unacceptable behavior. If they don't beef up security and draw the line on unacceptable Fan behavior, then they deserve the continued decline in attendance that will surly result.

But the biggest failure will be the loss of a part of Americana, to not protect those cherished future memories....You know, of going to that first game, with Dad.

 

[dilloduck]

Makes Pete Rose' "crime" look petty !

 

[5stringJeff]

IMO, the punishments for the players was right on. And it sends a clear message to the players that such b ehavior will not b tolerated.


Now they need to do the same to the fans. The fan(s) who instigated the incident need to be punished. The NBA also needs to 1) tighten security at the games, especially between the court and the stands, and 2) needs to restrict alcohol sales at the game. Preferably, no alcohol should be sold after the end of the 3rd period, or even the beginning of the third period.

 

[Gem]

I agree with many here...the suspensions were justified and appropriate.

The players in any professional sport are well aware of the passion their job creates in its fans. They thrive on the positive support. They love the fans screaming their names, painting their bodies with team colors, wearing funny hats, and waiting in line for hours for an autograph. This is the positive side of fan mania...there is of course, a negative side...which is what was seen at that game...and what many would argue has become an ever-growing and ever-more-serious problem.

However...a professional athlete often gets paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year...and it is not simply payment for ther talent on the court, the field, the rink, etc...it is to deal with the life that their fame is going to give them. To pay for security, to pay for the rabid fans their names bring in...and to put up with those rabid fans when they get out of control.

A player NEVER has the right to attack a fan, regardless of the disgusting taunts thrown at him. A player does have the right to defend himself...but just like a normal person...must do it legally. Artest and others should have pointed the men out to security...and then pressed assault charges against them...

I agree with people here than fans who attack players need to be arrested and dealt with as harshly as the law will allow...in this day and age we, unfortunately, can not be lax with security risks...and a person who thinks that throwing items at a player needs to be arrested.

However, Artests actions damaged not only his future with that team...if you were watching the replays of the fight...you would have seen a lot of terrified children, a lot of scared and angry fans...calm, respectful fans who might think twice about coming back to another game...and thats another issue the team owners must take into consideration.

I think that the way some "fans" act at sporting events is disgusting. I think fans that get violent should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law...however, I have little sympathy for Artest given the out-of-control rage he exhibited in response...he proved that he was no better than that fan...

 

[tim_duncan2000]

I have talked about this before on other forums. As I said then, I don't think fans should throw things, but at the same time, that does not make it okay to go into the stands. I'm glad that Artest punk got suspended for the whole year. I think Jackson and O'Neal should have also been suspended for that long. I am a Spurs fan and I lost what little respect I still had for Jackson. He showed that he is nothing but a thug. He and Artest were just picking fights with random fans. I'm glad the NBA decided to suspend Artest for the year, and I wouldn't have even cared if he had been kicked out of the NBA.

 

[Merlin1047]

I'm aware there are many calling for Indiana's Ron Artest to recieve a long term suspension, but I'm glad he and others went into the stands to kick some ass.

NATO, you're off base (no pun) on this one.

Having officiated various sports for over 20 years, I sometimes come into contact with the worst type of conduct imaginable. I have come to the conclusion that the most obnoxious fans are cowards. They go to sports events and hurl insults at coaches, players and most especially officials. Obnoxious fans are emboldened by the fact that they know both players and officials are expected to ignore their idiotic words and actions. But fan conduct is no excuse for players or officials to stoop to the same conduct.

One of the problems with sports today is that the entire emphasis is on winning. That is why sports like professional football and especially professional basketball tolerate the conduct of overpaid punks whose attitudes and actions are more suited to gang membership than team membership. The actions of those basketball playing punks was completely out of line. I agree that they should not be suspended for the season. They should be suspended for life. Every one of those thugs who went into the stands to attack fans should never see the inside of another basketball arena - ever. They are not a precious national resource. They can be replaced in the blink of an eye. And they can be replaced by people with more character, restraint and common sense.

One thing that no one has mentioned - I think that the coach should be suspended for the rest of the season. He is responsible for the discipline of his team and in that regard, he failed miserably.

As a football official, I can tell you that there are few things in football that I enjoy more than a well disciplined team. On Friday nights when we call a game between two teams that are well coached and most importantly, well disciplined, we have very little to do. Basically, I stand around and watch a football game. Usually, after the game is over, the coaches and fans tell us what a good job we have done. The fact is, we didn't do a thing. The credit goes to the coaches and the players for PLAYING a great game, not to the officials for OFFICIATING a great game. Just the opposite is true on nights we draw a game between two schools who view the game as a backyard brawl. Constant whining, cheap shots, bad language, stupid mistakes and poor performance are blamed on the officials. My group is the crew from hell when it comes to lack of tolerance of unsportsmanlike conduct. I'll toss a player or a coach in an instant. That is probably the reason that we have never lost control of a game, while other crews have had bench-emptying brawls which resulted in game forfeiture because the teams had insufficient players remaining after the ejections. But officials should not be the agents of enforcing discipline - that is the job of the coaching staff.

So the NBA needs to clean up its act from top to bottom. Better security is part of the answer, but it certainly is not THE answer. Better discipline and better quality people are the answer.

 

[KarlMarx]

So the NBA needs to clean up its act from top to bottom. Better security is part of the answer, but it certainly is not THE answer. Better discipline and better quality people are the answer.

That, plus the promise of jail time and a lifetime ban from the game for any player that breaks the law.

 

[hylandrdet]

As a true Detroit Pistons Fan, I even admit that the fans that stormed the court deserve it. I was laughing along with my brother as I watched it. however; that doesn't excuse Ron Artest.

He's(Artest) a professional athlete; he understood what he was doing on that scorers' table and he understood the possible reaction; he'd gotten what was coming to him. The one thing that burns me up is that his punishment should had been a five minute session with the person he'd messed with, Ben Wallace; apparently, his running kept that from happening.

Like some of the people in this forum; a good ass whooping will straighting you out; ask Mike Tyson, once Lennox Lewis straighten his ass out.

I'm not justifiying what my fellow Pistons fans had done; I'm just saying that if you go into that neighborhood, with that attitude, you going to get your A@# kicked. Artest had knowledge a forethought; therefore, his actions are inexcusable.

To Ron, I say this; good luck on your record deal; for I have a feeling that you will have plenty of time to work on it.

As for the fans, I'm sorry, but you guys need to chill out on the beer. Cut it off after the third quarter. It's not as much about preventing fights as it is about preventing DUIs and alcohol related incidents.

Despite the city's stereotype, Detroit fans had maintained a very civil attitude over the years (well at least when compared to other cities). On behalf of the Detroit Pistons fans; I apologize.

 

[NATO AIR]

I think the suspensions were accurate and adequate, and I hope the fans get their punishment as well. The Detroit Pistons ownership should be fined heavily for the disgusting lack of security shown.

But here's the kicker... no more beer sales at Detroit Piston home games for the rest of the year. I don't care how much they lose in ticket sales, oh well, you should have policed your violent drunks far better than you did.

None of this would have happened if people were not drinking. A sober fan would not have thrown something at a player unless they were crazy or some sort of criminal.

I still support the right of the players to defend themselves if they must in the face of "assault" from fans throwing beers, batteries, etc etc. No one forfeits the right to self-defense in this nation, just because they make millions of dollars.

 

[hylandrdet]

I think the suspensions were accurate and adequate, and I hope the fans get their punishment as well. The Detroit Pistons ownership should be fined heavily for the disgusting lack of security shown.

But here's the kicker... no more beer sales at Detroit Piston home games for the rest of the year. I don't care how much they lose in ticket sales, oh well, you should have policed your violent drunks far better than you did.

None of this would have happened if people were not drinking. A sober fan would not have thrown something at a player unless they were crazy or some sort of criminal.

I still support the right of the players to defend themselves if they must in the face of "assault" from fans throwing beers, batteries, etc etc. No one forfeits the right to self-defense in this nation, just because they make millions of dollars.

I can clarify that easily. The security, when approaching the end of the game, heads towards outside the Palace. This move is intended to stop potential fights from taking place outside of the arena. They had the personel, they were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

I agree with you to some aspect, but let's get real; Ron Artest's first victim was confirmed, by tape, as to had not thrown the beer; he'd attacked an innocent person. You can't ask me to condone that.

I have much confidence in the Palace officials, they will get the job done as far as the fans.

 

[Adam's Apple]

Brawl in Detroit No Surprise in Era of Attitude
By Leonard Pitts, The Miami Herald
Posted on Fri, Nov. 26, 2004

Fine, suspend Ron Artest.

Anyone who follows pro basketball knows his reputation as an emotionally unstable nitwit is no accident. And yeah, while you're at it, suspend his Indiana Pacers teammates Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson for their part in last Friday's fracas in the suburbs of Detroit. Suspend Ben Wallace, the Detroit Pistons center who triggered the initial altercation with a two-handed shove to Artest's face.

But after you've done all that, can we talk about the fans? Because if there was any single factor that turned a routine confrontation between athletes into an indoor riot, they were it. And to my mind, that speaks volumes about issues much larger than sports.

For the record: The conflict between Wallace and Artest was over pretty quickly. After Wallace expressed his rather emphatic objection to being fouled by Artest, the latter uncharacteristically walked away from conflict and reclined on a scorer's table. The matter was well on the way to being settled.

Then some ''fan'' threw a cup of liquid that hit Artest in the face. Next thing you know he's charging into the stands, and the throwdown in Motown is under way. Somebody slings a chair, fans are spilling onto the floor, people are hanging off O'Neal like Christmas tree ornaments, beer cups and popcorn and Lord knows what else are flying through the air.

And I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble blaming it all on an excess of beer. Alcohol, by and large, does not create emotion so much as it magnifies and distorts it.

Alternately, some observers say race contributed to the melee -- specifically the jealousy and anger of white sports fans alienated by black basketball players they perceive as too rich, too showy, too cornrowed and tattooed. And insufficiently humble.

That's a good point, but I'm hesitant to place all the weight there, either.

Something broke loose Friday.

I don't know what to call it. Civility, maybe? Decorum, perhaps? Or maybe what broke is simply that old-school belief that there are some lines you don't cross.

As such, this modern Detroit riot offers irresistible symbolism: players going into the stands where they are forbidden; fans going onto the floor from which they are restricted. People crossing lines that were once considered inviolable.

You cannot convince me that's only a sports phenomenon, just a beer and race thing. Listen to the blowhards of talk radio and crossfire politics. Check the empty vulgarism of rap music and fear factor television. Listen to the cynicism and entitlement of our children. And tell me that mentality played no role in some fool's decision to fling his cup.

This coward -- a prosecutor identified him as a self-employed contractor with a record of felony assault and drunken driving -- tipped the balance with a single act of abject stupidity.

And once that happened, wasn't the rest preordained? Artest charging in for retribution? The entire stadium erupting in a furor? If your behavior is unchecked, doesn't that give me license, too? And the whole house of cards, the whole veneer of civil society, comes tumbling down.

Some would argue it's not that solid to begin with. We have become a chest-thump nation. An I-don't-take-no-stuff nation. A nation that crosses lines -- not because lines need crossing, but because lines are there.

It's a lame and misguided echo of the '60s, when attitude was a political statement and people broke barriers because breaking barriers was necessary to force closed places open. But in the Ohs, attitude is its own reward and we break barriers because.

Friday night was a postcard from across the line. Friday night, something broke loose in Detroit.

But the truth is, it's been tearing for a very long time.

 

[OCA]

All I want to know is why Artest is the only one getting a year suspension? I mean is it just me, am I the only one who saw Jermaine O'Neal run across the court, loading up the whole way and land that haymaker on that white guy dropping him cold? That guy went to the hospital, something about his jaw. Watch the footage again, O'Neal drills this guy.

 

[Adam's Apple]

I think they came down hard on Artest because he had a "past". To my way of thinking, Artest should have been punished, but harder than Latrell Sprewell(sp?), who actually tried to choke his coach a few years back?