OWS cop haters: HERE is why police have militarized.

Police focus their efforts on neighborhoods with the most violent crime. Not on the race of those in that neighborhood. Almost every single study done in major and small cities show violent crime is committed in any range from 60% to as high as 90% by minorities. However, every police study also shows a stronger correlation to poverty and crime than race. Unfortunately, some races are afflicted by poverty more than others, for many reasons that belong in another thread.

But....your assumption is simpy innaccurate. Especially with the recent decades surge in the hiring of black, asian and hispanic cops.

Now, care to address the OP?

What does the race of the cop have to do with anything? A cop is a cop, is a cop. Throughout the history of this country some of the most abusive cops toward blacks have been black cops.

You stick to your "studies" and I'll rely on my 48 years of being a black man who witnessed the disparity in police treatment of whites and blacks growing up in a majority white rural area and that same disparity while living in urban areas while being stationed all over America while serving in the military.

If you've never been white, how do you know whites aren't treated unfair also? You just want to be a victim. You are told that cops do that, so every encounter you have with one you automatically assume his intentions are racial. However, when a crime happens, and the fleeing suspect is a black male, its natural that cops in the area responding will look at black males to see if they are acting suspicious. And black males commit a massively higher percentage of violent crime, thus, putting many innocent black males into the police attention immediately following a crime. Sounds like your gripe is with the wrong people.

Your gripe was valid in the civil rights era and before. But as time goes on......so to mindsets and attitudes. And yes, studies by brilliant people have shown this. I can accept, however, that being your age and seeing the cops in the civil rights era would cause you to believe all cops today are like that, and it's simply not true.

Growing up the police would take the white kids that they caught with weed or drinking home and talk to their parents, while us black kids went to jail or juvenile hall.

You have no clue as to what I have experienced with police. I was not "told", I witnessed all that I talk about. I had a friend, an E-5 black Sailor, who had tinted windows and Nevada tags on his SUV, we were stationed in San Diego at the time. He was pulled over and made to perform a sobriety test, the part about standing on one leg. The cop made him use his left leg and raise the right leg about 5 times. My friend had just had surgery on his left knee and had a brace on it. By the end of the "test" he could barely stand and was covered in sweat. Finally the cop said he was borderline and let us go. I was riding with my friend and witnessed this, along with 3 cops who arrived as soon as we were stopped. This is just one of many experiences I had with the police during my 20 years in the military.

P.S. I have no criminal record and retired from the military after 20 years.
 
I dont know why people expect. Society is becoming more violent towards cops, more ambushes, bigger weapons, more and more dangerous. Do they expect them to be Andy Griffith and just tell their wives and parents and kids "Sorry guys, I might get killed today, but we simply can't do anything that would offend someone or do more to protect ourselves, we must maintain our 1950's appearance, attitude and training."
I believe the most prominent factor in the rising level of violence in contemporary America is precisely the same factor that caused a similar rise in violence in the 1920s -- Prohibition. Ronald Reagan's escalation of Nixon's failed War on Drugs, which is another Prohibition, has led directly to the rise of several extremely violent crime syndicates. But rather than acknowledge that drug prohibition, like alcohol prohibition, is an ineffective fiasco and deal with the situation more intelligently the federal government has assumed a rigidly militant posture and continues to pour an enormous amount of revenue into fighting this counterproductive "war."

Most if not all of the militarization of our police agencies, including the paramilitary equipment and training, is paid for with federal drug war subsidies. Prison construction has become the only remaining growth industry in America. The majority of the increasing number of no-knock raids, which are transforming our policework standard into something resembling that of the old USSR, are effected by warrants which are casually rubber-stamped by drug courts. So I believe the drug war to be the principal cause of the atmosphere of violence and the availability of guns to criminal elements. Just about everyone who sells drugs can either supply an illegal gun or steer one to a source, because illegal guns flow through the same channels as illegal drugs.

In addition to the drug war the very nature of our culture, which is essentially violence-prone, is responding to population growth, urban crowding and illegal immigration, all of which predictably contributes to the rate of violence. But another prominent though seldom-addressed cause of rising violence is Ronald Reagan's ill-advised closing of several major mental institutions which effectively dumped thousands of psychologically incompetent people onto the streets, some of whom are dangerously schizophrenic and capable of homicidal violence.

In spite of all of the above the fact remains that policework is rather low on the list of dangerous jobs, as the following article in Risk Management magazine concludes:

Screen-shot-2011-09-19-at-4.05.32-PM.png


The 10 Most Dangerous Jobs in America

Policework, like working on a fishing boat, is a choice. Because there is an element of risk involved in policework do you feel it justifies the kind of militarization of our state and local police agencies we've seen in recent years? For example, I'd like to know how the predictable number of annual on-the-job police fatalities justifies helmeted, armored goons hitting peaceful protesters in the face at close range with bear spray.
 
What does the race of the cop have to do with anything? A cop is a cop, is a cop. Throughout the history of this country some of the most abusive cops toward blacks have been black cops.

You stick to your "studies" and I'll rely on my 48 years of being a black man who witnessed the disparity in police treatment of whites and blacks growing up in a majority white rural area and that same disparity while living in urban areas while being stationed all over America while serving in the military.

If you've never been white, how do you know whites aren't treated unfair also? You just want to be a victim. You are told that cops do that, so every encounter you have with one you automatically assume his intentions are racial. However, when a crime happens, and the fleeing suspect is a black male, its natural that cops in the area responding will look at black males to see if they are acting suspicious. And black males commit a massively higher percentage of violent crime, thus, putting many innocent black males into the police attention immediately following a crime. Sounds like your gripe is with the wrong people.

Your gripe was valid in the civil rights era and before. But as time goes on......so to mindsets and attitudes. And yes, studies by brilliant people have shown this. I can accept, however, that being your age and seeing the cops in the civil rights era would cause you to believe all cops today are like that, and it's simply not true.

Growing up the police would take the white kids that they caught with weed or drinking home and talk to their parents, while us black kids went to jail or juvenile hall.

You have no clue as to what I have experienced with police. I was not "told", I witnessed all that I talk about. I had a friend, an E-5 black Sailor, who had tinted windows and Nevada tags on his SUV, we were stationed in San Diego at the time. He was pulled over and made to perform a sobriety test, the part about standing on one leg. The cop made him use his left leg and raise the right leg about 5 times. My friend had just had surgery on his left knee and had a brace on it. By the end of the "test" he could barely stand and was covered in sweat. Finally the cop said he was borderline and let us go. I was riding with my friend and witnessed this, along with 3 cops who arrived as soon as we were stopped. This is just one of many experiences I had with the police during my 20 years in the military.

P.S. I have no criminal record and retired from the military after 20 years.


If the car you and the sailor were driving "had tinted windows and Nevada tags".........how could the cop see you were black through the tinted windows:cuckoo:
If he hated black people, he couldve ticketed for the tinted windows....which is xray vision saw through in order to see your race obviously.
 
I dont know why people expect. Society is becoming more violent towards cops, more ambushes, bigger weapons, more and more dangerous. Do they expect them to be Andy Griffith and just tell their wives and parents and kids "Sorry guys, I might get killed today, but we simply can't do anything that would offend someone or do more to protect ourselves, we must maintain our 1950's appearance, attitude and training."
I believe the most prominent factor in the rising level of violence in contemporary America is precisely the same factor that caused a similar rise in violence in the 1920s -- Prohibition. Ronald Reagan's escalation of Nixon's failed War on Drugs, which is another Prohibition, has led directly to the rise of several extremely violent crime syndicates. But rather than acknowledge that drug prohibition, like alcohol prohibition, is an ineffective fiasco and deal with the situation more intelligently the federal government has assumed a rigidly militant posture and continues to pour an enormous amount of revenue into fighting this counterproductive "war."

Most if not all of the militarization of our police agencies, including the paramilitary equipment and training, is paid for with federal drug war subsidies. Prison construction has become the only remaining growth industry in America. The majority of the increasing number of no-knock raids, which are transforming our policework standard into something resembling that of the old USSR, are effected by warrants which are casually rubber-stamped by drug courts. So I believe the drug war to be the principal cause of the atmosphere of violence and the availability of guns to criminal elements. Just about everyone who sells drugs can either supply an illegal gun or steer one to a source, because illegal guns flow through the same channels as illegal drugs.

In addition to the drug war the very nature of our culture, which is essentially violence-prone, is responding to population growth, urban crowding and illegal immigration, all of which predictably contributes to the rate of violence. But another prominent though seldom-addressed cause of rising violence is Ronald Reagan's ill-advised closing of several major mental institutions which effectively dumped thousands of psychologically incompetent people onto the streets, some of whom are dangerously schizophrenic and capable of homicidal violence.

In spite of all of the above the fact remains that policework is rather low on the list of dangerous jobs, as the following article in Risk Management magazine concludes:

Screen-shot-2011-09-19-at-4.05.32-PM.png


The 10 Most Dangerous Jobs in America

Policework, like working on a fishing boat, is a choice. Because there is an element of risk involved in policework do you feel it justifies the kind of militarization of our state and local police agencies we've seen in recent years? For example, I'd like to know how the predictable number of annual on-the-job police fatalities justifies helmeted, armored goons hitting peaceful protesters in the face at close range with bear spray.


Same reason fishermen would have life vests and safety gear. To not die. Helmets are armor are worn BEFORE bullets or bottles or rocks start flying. You think they'd say "Alright guys, leave your helmets, vests, etc, in the van. If someone throws bottles, rocks, or god forbid shoots at us, we'll go back to the van and then get them":cuckoo:


And it's not "bear spray". It's OC, Oleorisin Capsicum, basically a liquid pepper, no permanent effects, wears off in 30 minutes with cool water and dawn dish soap.

And those dangerous jobs are dangerous. All take precautions, just like cops. Whats your point?
 
Normally I would counter with a statement such as, "Those police officers are human at the end of the day, and there's only so much oppression Americans are willing to put upon their fellow citizens."

But then I remember world history and also the fact that there are so many people out there in this country that would pay money to be able to be out there with a baton caving a dissenter's skull in.

All they have to do is obey our simple laws. You cannot trespass after hours, or block a street. If you do, you'll be asked to comply or face arrest. When 10,000 do this at one, history shows us, even here with Miami, LA, New Orleans, that the crowd can instantly become violent. Hence riot teams.

You cop haters are simply on the wrong side of the fence on this one. Especially with Gallup showing over 80% of Americans approve of the police.

Approval of the police and approval of police actions as demonstrated in OWS are completely different things.

Also I'm far from a cop hater. I've never had a bad experience with a police officer, but I've seen plenty of bad and potentially criminal actions by certain police officers. Observing these and viewing them correctly does not make me a cop hater.
 
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If you've never been white, how do you know whites aren't treated unfair also? You just want to be a victim. You are told that cops do that, so every encounter you have with one you automatically assume his intentions are racial. However, when a crime happens, and the fleeing suspect is a black male, its natural that cops in the area responding will look at black males to see if they are acting suspicious. And black males commit a massively higher percentage of violent crime, thus, putting many innocent black males into the police attention immediately following a crime. Sounds like your gripe is with the wrong people.

Your gripe was valid in the civil rights era and before. But as time goes on......so to mindsets and attitudes. And yes, studies by brilliant people have shown this. I can accept, however, that being your age and seeing the cops in the civil rights era would cause you to believe all cops today are like that, and it's simply not true.

Growing up the police would take the white kids that they caught with weed or drinking home and talk to their parents, while us black kids went to jail or juvenile hall.

You have no clue as to what I have experienced with police. I was not "told", I witnessed all that I talk about. I had a friend, an E-5 black Sailor, who had tinted windows and Nevada tags on his SUV, we were stationed in San Diego at the time. He was pulled over and made to perform a sobriety test, the part about standing on one leg. The cop made him use his left leg and raise the right leg about 5 times. My friend had just had surgery on his left knee and had a brace on it. By the end of the "test" he could barely stand and was covered in sweat. Finally the cop said he was borderline and let us go. I was riding with my friend and witnessed this, along with 3 cops who arrived as soon as we were stopped. This is just one of many experiences I had with the police during my 20 years in the military.

P.S. I have no criminal record and retired from the military after 20 years.


If the car you and the sailor were driving "had tinted windows and Nevada tags".........how could the cop see you were black through the tinted windows:cuckoo:
If he hated black people, he couldve ticketed for the tinted windows....which is xray vision saw through in order to see your race obviously.

Front windows down, back and rear windows limo tint. Which was/is legal on cars registered in Nevada. No ticket for the tint, since it wasn't illegal, he was active duty military. He got his fun off of making him stand on the leg he saw and was told had just been operated on.

You were a cop, how many "borderline" drunk drivers did you test and let go?
 
That was a quote from an old street patrol Sgt I had. He said "We'd eliminate 99% of our complaints if people could just speed and smoke weed." He's mostly right!
That's an interesting observation because it proposes two distinctly different types of offense.

Speeding is potentially dangerous to others on a road or highway, therefore it should not be permitted. But smoking weed is virtually harmless to the smoker and is absolutely harmless to others. So I wonder just how much that 99% projection could be reduced if we legalized weed.

I think it's a relevant and important question.
 
Same reason fishermen would have life vests and safety gear. To not die. Helmets are armor are worn BEFORE bullets or bottles or rocks start flying. You think they'd say "Alright guys, leave your helmets, vests, etc, in the van. If someone throws bottles, rocks, or god forbid shoots at us, we'll go back to the van and then get them"
We're talking about passively protesting students. A sensible police commander would hold a riot-ready faction in reserve and confront the protesters with patrolmen in ordinary uniform, such as was done in the first OWS demonstration in New York City. In the Davis example those cops came on in full riot regalia and behaved like goons, which I attribute to the conditioned militarization I've been writing about. What we're seeing is the public reaction to it, not just mine.

And it's not "bear spray". It's OC, Oleorisin Capsicum, basically a liquid pepper, no permanent effects, wears off in 30 minutes with cool water and dawn dish soap.
It's the same chemical composition but much more dense, voluminous and highly pressurized. The civilian version is a comparatively weak 2 oz. dispenser compared with the large canister issued to police, which is bear spray with a different label. The following is from a supplier's ad:

"Guard Alaska is the only brand of bear repellent that is known to repel all species of bears. Bear repellents are made with the same OC hot pepper formula as traditional pepper spray. The only difference is that the EPA has approved the “bear spray” formula to be a humane protection against vicious wild animal attacks on humans."
Bear Pepper Spray | Works with Black and Grizzly as the strongest bear repellent spray for bear while hiking, camping or hunting.

And those dangerous jobs are dangerous. All take precautions, just like cops. Whats your point?
The point is the militarization of America's police agencies is beginning to manifest in ways which are offensive. What those goons at UC Davis did is unacceptable to most Americans.
 
If you've never been white, how do you know whites aren't treated unfair also? You just want to be a victim. You are told that cops do that, so every encounter you have with one you automatically assume his intentions are racial. However, when a crime happens, and the fleeing suspect is a black male, its natural that cops in the area responding will look at black males to see if they are acting suspicious. And black males commit a massively higher percentage of violent crime, thus, putting many innocent black males into the police attention immediately following a crime. Sounds like your gripe is with the wrong people.

Your gripe was valid in the civil rights era and before. But as time goes on......so to mindsets and attitudes. And yes, studies by brilliant people have shown this. I can accept, however, that being your age and seeing the cops in the civil rights era would cause you to believe all cops today are like that, and it's simply not true.

Growing up the police would take the white kids that they caught with weed or drinking home and talk to their parents, while us black kids went to jail or juvenile hall.

You have no clue as to what I have experienced with police. I was not "told", I witnessed all that I talk about. I had a friend, an E-5 black Sailor, who had tinted windows and Nevada tags on his SUV, we were stationed in San Diego at the time. He was pulled over and made to perform a sobriety test, the part about standing on one leg. The cop made him use his left leg and raise the right leg about 5 times. My friend had just had surgery on his left knee and had a brace on it. By the end of the "test" he could barely stand and was covered in sweat. Finally the cop said he was borderline and let us go. I was riding with my friend and witnessed this, along with 3 cops who arrived as soon as we were stopped. This is just one of many experiences I had with the police during my 20 years in the military.

P.S. I have no criminal record and retired from the military after 20 years.


If the car you and the sailor were driving "had tinted windows and Nevada tags".........how could the cop see you were black through the tinted windows:cuckoo:
If he hated black people, he couldve ticketed for the tinted windows....which is xray vision saw through in order to see your race obviously.
Not only that, but the car would have base entry stickers......San Diego Police have a very workable relationship with the military, as do most departments around military bases....It is not in the best interest of the department to go around harrassing minority service members. Particularly in a county and city like San Diego, where it is filled with military retirees.
 
Growing up the police would take the white kids that they caught with weed or drinking home and talk to their parents, while us black kids went to jail or juvenile hall.

You have no clue as to what I have experienced with police. I was not "told", I witnessed all that I talk about. I had a friend, an E-5 black Sailor, who had tinted windows and Nevada tags on his SUV, we were stationed in San Diego at the time. He was pulled over and made to perform a sobriety test, the part about standing on one leg. The cop made him use his left leg and raise the right leg about 5 times. My friend had just had surgery on his left knee and had a brace on it. By the end of the "test" he could barely stand and was covered in sweat. Finally the cop said he was borderline and let us go. I was riding with my friend and witnessed this, along with 3 cops who arrived as soon as we were stopped. This is just one of many experiences I had with the police during my 20 years in the military.

P.S. I have no criminal record and retired from the military after 20 years.


If the car you and the sailor were driving "had tinted windows and Nevada tags".........how could the cop see you were black through the tinted windows:cuckoo:
If he hated black people, he couldve ticketed for the tinted windows....which is xray vision saw through in order to see your race obviously.

Front windows down, back and rear windows limo tint. Which was/is legal on cars registered in Nevada. No ticket for the tint, since it wasn't illegal, he was active duty military. He got his fun off of making him stand on the leg he saw and was told had just been operated on.

You were a cop, how many "borderline" drunk drivers did you test and let go?

A lot. Thats what "borderline" means. It means they ALMOST met the standard for a DUI arrest, but they either were just short of it, or it was so close I couldn't make the judgement and let them go. Sometimes gave them a ride or called a cab. Called "integrity". I wasn't gonna stretch the sobriety test to meet the standard if it did not meet the standard.
 
Same reason fishermen would have life vests and safety gear. To not die. Helmets are armor are worn BEFORE bullets or bottles or rocks start flying. You think they'd say "Alright guys, leave your helmets, vests, etc, in the van. If someone throws bottles, rocks, or god forbid shoots at us, we'll go back to the van and then get them"
We're talking about passively protesting students. A sensible police commander would hold a riot-ready faction in reserve and confront the protesters with patrolmen in ordinary uniform, such as was done in the first OWS demonstration in New York City. In the Davis example those cops came on in full riot regalia and behaved like goons, which I attribute to the conditioned militarization I've been writing about. What we're seeing is the public reaction to it, not just mine.

And it's not "bear spray". It's OC, Oleorisin Capsicum, basically a liquid pepper, no permanent effects, wears off in 30 minutes with cool water and dawn dish soap.
It's the same chemical composition but much more dense, voluminous and highly pressurized. The civilian version is a comparatively weak 2 oz. dispenser compared with the large canister issued to police, which is bear spray with a different label. The following is from a supplier's ad:

"Guard Alaska is the only brand of bear repellent that is known to repel all species of bears. Bear repellents are made with the same OC hot pepper formula as traditional pepper spray. The only difference is that the EPA has approved the “bear spray” formula to be a humane protection against vicious wild animal attacks on humans."
Bear Pepper Spray | Works with Black and Grizzly as the strongest bear repellent spray for bear while hiking, camping or hunting.

And those dangerous jobs are dangerous. All take precautions, just like cops. Whats your point?
The point is the militarization of America's police agencies is beginning to manifest in ways which are offensive. What those goons at UC Davis did is unacceptable to most Americans.
You don't know enough of the incident to make that claim......Nobody has seen anything but an edited video......Nobody knows yet what exactly happened from beginning to end.

And, the OC the cops used IS NOT the same concentration as bear spray, period!

But then, you stated in that other thread that you wish to see cops killed, and don't even try and deny it....You're a disgusting piece o' shit, and not worth discussing anything having to do with this issue.
 
Same reason fishermen would have life vests and safety gear. To not die. Helmets are armor are worn BEFORE bullets or bottles or rocks start flying. You think they'd say "Alright guys, leave your helmets, vests, etc, in the van. If someone throws bottles, rocks, or god forbid shoots at us, we'll go back to the van and then get them"
We're talking about passively protesting students. A sensible police commander would hold a riot-ready faction in reserve and confront the protesters with patrolmen in ordinary uniform, such as was done in the first OWS demonstration in New York City. In the Davis example those cops came on in full riot regalia and behaved like goons, which I attribute to the conditioned militarization I've been writing about. What we're seeing is the public reaction to it, not just mine.

And it's not "bear spray". It's OC, Oleorisin Capsicum, basically a liquid pepper, no permanent effects, wears off in 30 minutes with cool water and dawn dish soap.
It's the same chemical composition but much more dense, voluminous and highly pressurized. The civilian version is a comparatively weak 2 oz. dispenser compared with the large canister issued to police, which is bear spray with a different label. The following is from a supplier's ad:

"Guard Alaska is the only brand of bear repellent that is known to repel all species of bears. Bear repellents are made with the same OC hot pepper formula as traditional pepper spray. The only difference is that the EPA has approved the “bear spray” formula to be a humane protection against vicious wild animal attacks on humans."
Bear Pepper Spray | Works with Black and Grizzly as the strongest bear repellent spray for bear while hiking, camping or hunting.

And those dangerous jobs are dangerous. All take precautions, just like cops. Whats your point?
The point is the militarization of America's police agencies is beginning to manifest in ways which are offensive. What those goons at UC Davis did is unacceptable to most Americans.

It's called "Scoville Heat Units", it measures the intensity of the pepper mix. Cops carry 5%. Guess how hot the stuff you can buy at your local gun store or WalMart is? 15%, or to explain, enough to burn your eyes permanently. Cops carry WEAK spray because PD's dont wanna get their asses sued. "Bear spray" is NOT USED BY POLICE ON HUMANS. Unless some dumbass PD wants to lose a lawsuit for $4,000,000,000 or something.

But you are attempting to explain to me what I've been certified and trained in. Scoville Heat Units measure the level of OC in the alcohol base propellent, and cops carry the weakest at 5%, in small cans AND big, that big can he had was a riot can used for volume, not intensity. It's the same shit his littel can on the belt had. Trust me, if it was the 15% or higher, those kids would've all been sent to the hospital and been running through the area in a panic. They SAT through it and kept talking. It was 5%. I promise. You need to read up on police tactics and equipment before debating this stuff. There is no such thing as "Bear spray" there is only OC spray at a much higher intensity, which cops DO NOT carry for liability purposes. There is also CN and CS, but no one carries either anymore thankfully since OC came out in the 80's. But the idea you're trying to articulate is Scoville Heat Units, and the Davis kids got hit with the weakest one out there.


The idea that police using more protective equipment, and LESS lethal tools like 5% OC spray, are somehow "militarized" is insane. The military is built to win wars and kill stuff. They dont need to worry as much about lawsuits and public image. Cops do. Thats why they spray OC rather than the old fashioned fist beatings.
 
Same reason fishermen would have life vests and safety gear. To not die. Helmets are armor are worn BEFORE bullets or bottles or rocks start flying. You think they'd say "Alright guys, leave your helmets, vests, etc, in the van. If someone throws bottles, rocks, or god forbid shoots at us, we'll go back to the van and then get them"
We're talking about passively protesting students. A sensible police commander would hold a riot-ready faction in reserve and confront the protesters with patrolmen in ordinary uniform, such as was done in the first OWS demonstration in New York City. In the Davis example those cops came on in full riot regalia and behaved like goons, which I attribute to the conditioned militarization I've been writing about. What we're seeing is the public reaction to it, not just mine.


It's the same chemical composition but much more dense, voluminous and highly pressurized. The civilian version is a comparatively weak 2 oz. dispenser compared with the large canister issued to police, which is bear spray with a different label. The following is from a supplier's ad:

"Guard Alaska is the only brand of bear repellent that is known to repel all species of bears. Bear repellents are made with the same OC hot pepper formula as traditional pepper spray. The only difference is that the EPA has approved the “bear spray” formula to be a humane protection against vicious wild animal attacks on humans."
Bear Pepper Spray | Works with Black and Grizzly as the strongest bear repellent spray for bear while hiking, camping or hunting.

And those dangerous jobs are dangerous. All take precautions, just like cops. Whats your point?
The point is the militarization of America's police agencies is beginning to manifest in ways which are offensive. What those goons at UC Davis did is unacceptable to most Americans.
You don't know enough of the incident to make that claim......Nobody has seen anything but an edited video......Nobody knows yet what exactly happened from beginning to end.

And, the OC the cops used IS NOT the same concentration as bear spray, period!

But then, you stated in that other thread that you wish to see cops killed, and don't even try and deny it....You're a disgusting piece o' shit, and not worth discussing anything having to do with this issue.

Thanks. I just schooled him on the intensity of OC premise.

What happened, updated info as we get it, is the cops had some arrestees ready to transport. A van or vehicle was en route to transport the prisoners, and the students formed a human circle around the cops, basically saying "You aren't taking them". Cops said "Yes we are, move." And we know how it played out. A UC Davis professor whined to the media that the cops "Could've just stepped OVER the students". Fuck that. They aren't stepping over shit. The students will move, or they'll be moved. WHen the prisoners are transported, they can sit back where they were. BUT, the students chose their destiny on that one.
 
To all you people in the OWS who hate cops (I know, its not most of you but some) thought I'd fill you in on why the cops have militarized. Violent ambushes, bigger guns, huge explosion in mental subjects, foreign cartel invasion, etc, etc, and here are a few examples:

Before we start, the Officer Down Memorial Page:
Law Enforcement Line of Duty Deaths in 2011
To date today, in 2011, 54 cops killed by gunfire alone.
In 2010 59 killed by gunfire
In 2009 47 killed by gunfire
In 2008 40 killed by gunfire
In 2007 66 killed by gunfire
In 2006 51 killed by gunfire
In 2005 53 killed by gunfire
In 2004 56 killed by gunfire
In 2003 48 killed by gunfire
From 2003-current date 420 cops killed by gunfire alone. In comparison....
From 2003-current date 140 United Kingdom troops have died in Iraq.

In 2011 to date, 54 cops have been killed by gunfire only in America.
In 2011 to date, the US Coalition has had 53 deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan (iCasualties | Operation Iraqi Freedom | Iraq) (Great job US military stabilizing that region)

And you wonder why American Cops have militarized.

North Hollywood Shootout- 2 russians with AK47s make warzone in LA
Columbine High- 2 heavily armed kill 13 while patrol waited on swat
VA Tech- Crazed gunman kills 33
Fort Hood- Killer was dropped by a city cop
DC Sniper- High powered rifle sniping citizens
9-11
Ambush kills 4 Oakland SWAT officers 2009 shootings of Oakland police officers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ambush with AK47 kills several Pitt cops; Original 911 call was over a cat pissing in house: 2009 Pittsburgh police shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ambush kills 4 cops who were having coffee: Lakewood, Washington police officer shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ambushed with AK47 in Arkansas: Police: 2 suspects ambush officers at apartment complex - FOX16.com Little Rock, AR
Maniac kills 5 in shopping mall before off duty cop engages, saves lives: Trolley Square shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Woman calls for help; Husband ambushes and kills 2 cops with shotgun: 2 cops, suspect die after shootout in South Carolina - Orlando Sentinel
Barricaded man ambush, kill cops in biggest shootout in SC history: Officers Gather On Anniv Of Abbeville Standoff - Greenville News Story - WYFF Greenville

I can go on and on for dozens and dozens and dozens of more PAGES of hundreds upon hundreds of examples. But you get the point.

So explain why this should matter beyond its brutal stomping of the US Constitutional rights of the American citizen?
 
The capacity for deliver massive violence has increased.

The bad guys have automatic weapons.

The police respond in kind.

None of that is the problem, though.

What the OWS people are dealing with has nothing to do with the increased violence.

The OWS people aren't even armed.

When the cops are brutal to them, there's no excuse for it.
 
To all you people in the OWS who hate cops (I know, its not most of you but some) thought I'd fill you in on why the cops have militarized. Violent ambushes, bigger guns, huge explosion in mental subjects, foreign cartel invasion, etc, etc, and here are a few examples:

Before we start, the Officer Down Memorial Page:
Law Enforcement Line of Duty Deaths in 2011
To date today, in 2011, 54 cops killed by gunfire alone.
In 2010 59 killed by gunfire
In 2009 47 killed by gunfire
In 2008 40 killed by gunfire
In 2007 66 killed by gunfire
In 2006 51 killed by gunfire
In 2005 53 killed by gunfire
In 2004 56 killed by gunfire
In 2003 48 killed by gunfire
From 2003-current date 420 cops killed by gunfire alone. In comparison....
From 2003-current date 140 United Kingdom troops have died in Iraq.

In 2011 to date, 54 cops have been killed by gunfire only in America.
In 2011 to date, the US Coalition has had 53 deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan (iCasualties | Operation Iraqi Freedom | Iraq) (Great job US military stabilizing that region)

And you wonder why American Cops have militarized.

North Hollywood Shootout- 2 russians with AK47s make warzone in LA
Columbine High- 2 heavily armed kill 13 while patrol waited on swat
VA Tech- Crazed gunman kills 33
Fort Hood- Killer was dropped by a city cop
DC Sniper- High powered rifle sniping citizens
9-11
Ambush kills 4 Oakland SWAT officers 2009 shootings of Oakland police officers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ambush with AK47 kills several Pitt cops; Original 911 call was over a cat pissing in house: 2009 Pittsburgh police shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ambush kills 4 cops who were having coffee: Lakewood, Washington police officer shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ambushed with AK47 in Arkansas: Police: 2 suspects ambush officers at apartment complex - FOX16.com Little Rock, AR
Maniac kills 5 in shopping mall before off duty cop engages, saves lives: Trolley Square shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Woman calls for help; Husband ambushes and kills 2 cops with shotgun: 2 cops, suspect die after shootout in South Carolina - Orlando Sentinel
Barricaded man ambush, kill cops in biggest shootout in SC history: Officers Gather On Anniv Of Abbeville Standoff - Greenville News Story - WYFF Greenville

I can go on and on for dozens and dozens and dozens of more PAGES of hundreds upon hundreds of examples. But you get the point.

You're right. They shouldn't have to risk death. They should definitely "militarize."

Hey, you know who REALLY risk death at their jobs?

Truck drivers
Coal miners
Electrical workers
Trash collectors
Fishermen
Loggers
Pilots

All of these people have much more deadly jobs than police officers. They should militarize too. Or at least form a union or something....
 
It's called "Scoville Heat Units", it measures the intensity of the pepper mix. Cops carry 5%. Guess how hot the stuff you can buy at your local gun store or WalMart is? 15%, or to explain, enough to burn your eyes permanently. Cops carry WEAK spray because PD's dont wanna get their asses sued. "Bear spray" is NOT USED BY POLICE ON HUMANS. Unless some dumbass PD wants to lose a lawsuit for $4,000,000,000 or something.

But you are attempting to explain to me what I've been certified and trained in. Scoville Heat Units measure the level of OC in the alcohol base propellent, and cops carry the weakest at 5%, in small cans AND big, that big can he had was a riot can used for volume, not intensity. It's the same shit his littel can on the belt had. Trust me, if it was the 15% or higher, those kids would've all been sent to the hospital and been running through the area in a panic. They SAT through it and kept talking. It was 5%. I promise. You need to read up on police tactics and equipment before debating this stuff. There is no such thing as "Bear spray" there is only OC spray at a much higher intensity, which cops DO NOT carry for liability purposes. There is also CN and CS, but no one carries either anymore thankfully since OC came out in the 80's. But the idea you're trying to articulate is Scoville Heat Units, and the Davis kids got hit with the weakest one out there.
You are right!

I've looked more deeply and found I was mistaken. The composition of OC contained in police issue devices is not as strong as that contained in bear spray. So I apologize for my careless research. But I've also learned there is another factor to be considered -- that of delivery.

The small OC device carried on the police equipment belt contains about 2 oz. of OC and is pressurized sufficiently to deliver a useful volume at an approximate distance of 6 - 8 feet, making these devices appropriate for use on individual subjects at close range. But the devices seen used at UC Davis (and elsewhere) are the larger "bear spray" type canisters which contain significantly more OC and are capable of delivering a much denser volume at a distance of 25 - 30 feet.

Calling upon your expertise, am I mistaken in assuming that inasamuch as the difference between the two devices is analogous to the difference between a garden hose and a fire hose these large canisters are intended for use in controlling aggressive crowds, not for spraying in the face of passive protesters at a distance of 3 feet? Is that a reasonable assumption?

The idea that police using more protective equipment, and LESS lethal tools like 5% OC spray, are somehow "militarized" is insane. The military is built to win wars and kill stuff. They dont need to worry as much about lawsuits and public image. Cops do. Thats why they spray OC rather than the old fashioned fist beatings.
As I've said in an earlier message, I have no problem with police carrying M-16s, helmets and armor in their patrol cars. So I have no argument with protective equipment per se. But the militarization of America's police is manifest at this point in time by the absolutely unnecessary and outrageously excessive number of door-busting break-in raids by helmeted, masked, machinegun-armed goons which are taking place all over America as reported in the Cato research paper. One would expect this kind of thing in the old USSR -- not in America. For affirmative reference, think back to the Waco episode, which, from beginning to end, was a classic demonstration of the militarization of American law enforcement.

As I explained in an earlier message, the incrementally encroaching militarization was manifest at UC Davis when the police showed up wearing protective gear when there was no apparent need for it. In support of that complaint I referenced NYPD in the early stages of the OSW demonstrations. Even the supervisory officer ("Tony Baloney") who behaved like a goon by pepper-spraying a group of passive girls in the face was in ordinary uniform -- and he used an ordinary 2 oz. OC spray canister. And even that was enough to get him a ten day "rip" and earn a lot of bad press.

Imagine if those cops had showed up in riot gear and started spraying those passive protesters in the face with OC crowd control devices. The fact is a number of those patrolmen were heard expressing disapproval at Inspector "Baloney's" conduct.
 
To all you people in the OWS who hate cops (I know, its not most of you but some) thought I'd fill you in on why the cops have militarized. Violent ambushes, bigger guns, huge explosion in mental subjects, foreign cartel invasion, etc, etc, and here are a few examples:

Before we start, the Officer Down Memorial Page:
Law Enforcement Line of Duty Deaths in 2011
To date today, in 2011, 54 cops killed by gunfire alone.
In 2010 59 killed by gunfire
In 2009 47 killed by gunfire
In 2008 40 killed by gunfire
In 2007 66 killed by gunfire
In 2006 51 killed by gunfire
In 2005 53 killed by gunfire
In 2004 56 killed by gunfire
In 2003 48 killed by gunfire
From 2003-current date 420 cops killed by gunfire alone. In comparison....
From 2003-current date 140 United Kingdom troops have died in Iraq.

In 2011 to date, 54 cops have been killed by gunfire only in America.
In 2011 to date, the US Coalition has had 53 deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan (iCasualties | Operation Iraqi Freedom | Iraq) (Great job US military stabilizing that region)

And you wonder why American Cops have militarized.

North Hollywood Shootout- 2 russians with AK47s make warzone in LA
Columbine High- 2 heavily armed kill 13 while patrol waited on swat
VA Tech- Crazed gunman kills 33
Fort Hood- Killer was dropped by a city cop
DC Sniper- High powered rifle sniping citizens
9-11
Ambush kills 4 Oakland SWAT officers 2009 shootings of Oakland police officers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ambush with AK47 kills several Pitt cops; Original 911 call was over a cat pissing in house: 2009 Pittsburgh police shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ambush kills 4 cops who were having coffee: Lakewood, Washington police officer shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ambushed with AK47 in Arkansas: Police: 2 suspects ambush officers at apartment complex - FOX16.com Little Rock, AR
Maniac kills 5 in shopping mall before off duty cop engages, saves lives: Trolley Square shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Woman calls for help; Husband ambushes and kills 2 cops with shotgun: 2 cops, suspect die after shootout in South Carolina - Orlando Sentinel
Barricaded man ambush, kill cops in biggest shootout in SC history: Officers Gather On Anniv Of Abbeville Standoff - Greenville News Story - WYFF Greenville

I can go on and on for dozens and dozens and dozens of more PAGES of hundreds upon hundreds of examples. But you get the point.

You're right. They shouldn't have to risk death. They should definitely "militarize."

Hey, you know who REALLY risk death at their jobs?

Truck drivers
Coal miners
Electrical workers
Trash collectors
Fishermen
Loggers
Pilots

All of these people have much more deadly jobs than police officers. They should militarize too. Or at least form a union or something....
And i'm sure you can provide the FACTS to back up your drivel, correct?

And, when was the lst time any of the above had to respond to bank robbers using automatic wepons...Or respond to mass school shootings...Or respond to domestic violence situations, which on average are the riskiest calls cops routinely respond too....When was the last any of the above were ammbushed, and on and on and on.

You're a clueless fuckin'clown.

You cop haters are fuckin' laughable.:lol:
 
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But, unlike you, I'll actually respond to what you said. Yes, the "Miami model" is widely used. But.....like all police tactics, the "Miami model" was designed and trained on in REACTION to a previous event or set of events.

What were those?

1980's riots in Miami which got out of hand, out of control, devastated the city.
1990's riots in Los Angeles which we all saw the chaotic video of.

So...cops responded by modernizing their tactics. They looked to other parts of the world, where mass riots have occurred throughout history but are fairly new to America. And the "Miami model" is what they came up with.

In other words, they dont WAIT for a gathering to turn into what Miami and LA did in the past. Instead, they show up prepared for just that. Simple enough?


Now, would you respond to the ample substance I provided in my OP? On how more US cops have died from gunfire from 2003-present than have British troops in Iraq? Or how in 2011 to date, more US cops have died from gunfire than total US Coalition deaths in IRaq (54/53).............and you wonder why cops are stepping it up? Cops are humans, with families, NOT robotic target practice for shitheads.

Cops are "stepping it up" because companies like ATK, Taser and others are lobbying FOPs, police unions and police administrators to buy their products and take their training. Thus the militarization begins. If crime is down why is police militarization up?

Crime on the general public is down.
Crime against cops, like ambushes, are way up.
Both are because cops are doing their job and stopping crime against innocents.


And Taser, Cap Stun and ASP are becoming popular because THEY DONT KILL PEOPLE and police depts nationwide are looking for the best way to enforce the law with the fewest injuries, deaths, lawsuits for all. In fact, many have adopted Gracie Jiu-Jitsu as a hand to hand system because "the gentle art" is effective while minimizing the risk of injury to the suspect.

Next question? Or, I'll glady accept your explanation of why cops should NOT do more to protect themselves amidst the above clear documentation of the highly violent assaults and ambushes on cops?

What assault or ambush were the UC Davis OWS protesters performing?
 

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