Overcoming Adversity

[Cecilie1200]

Are anger and Jesus the only 2 options?

Not really sure what other options you find likely beyond anger or peace. I'm assuming you're going for "Can't you find peace without God?" Obviously, people do so, but usually through other faiths. Off the top of my head, I'd have to say it's very unlikely that you will come to a place of peace with catastrophic circumstances without some connection to a higher power in the universe, whatever that may be for you.

Anger and peace were not the options, anger and Jesus were. There are plenty of other options, and clearly belief in Jesus is not the only way to avoid living a life of anger. Whether someone believes in another religion, or no religion, obviously they can live a life that is not "in anger."

I also would not consider peace the opposite of anger.

Jesus is the alternative to anger because He gives peace. Did you miss that point in the OP? There are other options to finding peace, but they all involve faith in something greater in the universe.

So I guess the binary is anger or faith.

And your opposite of anger would be . . . ?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Anger is always a choice.

Do you choose before experiencing any emotion?

Of course ... I always choose before acting on any emotion. I'm not a toddler.

I didn't ask if you choose before acting on an emotion, I asked if you choose before experiencing an emotion. Those are very different things.

Of course a person chooses how they act on their emotions. What emotions they experience, on the other hand, is not a conscious choice. Anger is not a choice, how one acts based on their anger is.

Being angry can also be a choice, because it's a pattern, and a vicious cycle.

You absolutely can reprogram your brain so that anger is not your first response, because you're not looking at the world with an eye toward finding things to be angry about.

That is a more roundabout sort of choice that I was speaking of.

Choice is choice. Smart people make their life decisions BEFORE they're in extemis. Dumb people do too, but they don't realize they're making them, so they aren't very good choices.

 

[Montrovant]

Are anger and Jesus the only 2 options?

Not really sure what other options you find likely beyond anger or peace. I'm assuming you're going for "Can't you find peace without God?" Obviously, people do so, but usually through other faiths. Off the top of my head, I'd have to say it's very unlikely that you will come to a place of peace with catastrophic circumstances without some connection to a higher power in the universe, whatever that may be for you.

Anger and peace were not the options, anger and Jesus were. There are plenty of other options, and clearly belief in Jesus is not the only way to avoid living a life of anger. Whether someone believes in another religion, or no religion, obviously they can live a life that is not "in anger."

I also would not consider peace the opposite of anger.

Jesus is the alternative to anger because He gives peace. Did you miss that point in the OP? There are other options to finding peace, but they all involve faith in something greater in the universe.

So I guess the binary is anger or faith.

And your opposite of anger would be . . . ?

I imagine that depends on how you are defining "something greater in the universe."

I don't believe that everyone has a choice between anger and faith. I think people can live happy, peaceful lives without spiritual or religious faith.

I'm not sure what the opposite of anger is, or if it actually has a clear opposite. The opposite of peace would be more like conflict or discontent IMO, though. While anger can cause that, so can other things.

 

[Montrovant]

Do you choose before experiencing any emotion?

Of course ... I always choose before acting on any emotion. I'm not a toddler.

I didn't ask if you choose before acting on an emotion, I asked if you choose before experiencing an emotion. Those are very different things.

Of course a person chooses how they act on their emotions. What emotions they experience, on the other hand, is not a conscious choice. Anger is not a choice, how one acts based on their anger is.

Being angry can also be a choice, because it's a pattern, and a vicious cycle.

You absolutely can reprogram your brain so that anger is not your first response, because you're not looking at the world with an eye toward finding things to be angry about.

That is a more roundabout sort of choice that I was speaking of.

Choice is choice. Smart people make their life decisions BEFORE they're in extemis. Dumb people do too, but they don't realize they're making them, so they aren't very good choices.

When something happens that elicits an emotional response, a person did not consciously choose to have that emotional response (in general, I suppose a person might intentionally build up such a response). That different people may have different responses due to other choices they've made in life does not mean any emotional response they experience is a choice.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Are anger and Jesus the only 2 options?

Not really sure what other options you find likely beyond anger or peace. I'm assuming you're going for "Can't you find peace without God?" Obviously, people do so, but usually through other faiths. Off the top of my head, I'd have to say it's very unlikely that you will come to a place of peace with catastrophic circumstances without some connection to a higher power in the universe, whatever that may be for you.

Anger and peace were not the options, anger and Jesus were. There are plenty of other options, and clearly belief in Jesus is not the only way to avoid living a life of anger. Whether someone believes in another religion, or no religion, obviously they can live a life that is not "in anger."

I also would not consider peace the opposite of anger.

Jesus is the alternative to anger because He gives peace. Did you miss that point in the OP? There are other options to finding peace, but they all involve faith in something greater in the universe.

So I guess the binary is anger or faith.

And your opposite of anger would be . . . ?

I imagine that depends on how you are defining "something greater in the universe."

I don't believe that everyone has a choice between anger and faith. I think people can live happy, peaceful lives without spiritual or religious faith.

I'm not sure what the opposite of anger is, or if it actually has a clear opposite. The opposite of peace would be more like conflict or discontent IMO, though. While anger can cause that, so can other things.

I don't believe I've ever known anyone who lives a happy, peaceful life without faith. Not something I'm willing to just assume.

I think anger is a symptom of discontent. I think when you are truly peaceful and content inside, it's very hard to be moved to anger.

 

[BreezeWood]

I don't believe I've ever known anyone who lives a happy, peaceful life without faith.

that would be fleeting without resolution that those in peace have accomplished.

 

[MarathonMike]

Are anger and Jesus the only 2 options?

Not really sure what other options you find likely beyond anger or peace. I'm assuming you're going for "Can't you find peace without God?" Obviously, people do so, but usually through other faiths. Off the top of my head, I'd have to say it's very unlikely that you will come to a place of peace with catastrophic circumstances without some connection to a higher power in the universe, whatever that may be for you.

Anger and peace were not the options, anger and Jesus were. There are plenty of other options, and clearly belief in Jesus is not the only way to avoid living a life of anger. Whether someone believes in another religion, or no religion, obviously they can live a life that is not "in anger."

I also would not consider peace the opposite of anger.

Jesus is the alternative to anger because He gives peace. Did you miss that point in the OP? There are other options to finding peace, but they all involve faith in something greater in the universe.

So I guess the binary is anger or faith.

And your opposite of anger would be . . . ?

I imagine that depends on how you are defining "something greater in the universe."

I don't believe that everyone has a choice between anger and faith. I think people can live happy, peaceful lives without spiritual or religious faith.

I'm not sure what the opposite of anger is, or if it actually has a clear opposite. The opposite of peace would be more like conflict or discontent IMO, though. While anger can cause that, so can other things.

I don't believe I've ever known anyone who lives a happy, peaceful life without faith. Not something I'm willing to just assume.

I think anger is a symptom of discontent. I think when you are truly peaceful and content inside, it's very hard to be moved to anger.

I agree that anger is an expression of internal turmoil. But there are many people who are mellow and happy who are also not religious.

 

[hobelim]

Not really sure what other options you find likely beyond anger or peace. I'm assuming you're going for "Can't you find peace without God?" Obviously, people do so, but usually through other faiths. Off the top of my head, I'd have to say it's very unlikely that you will come to a place of peace with catastrophic circumstances without some connection to a higher power in the universe, whatever that may be for you.

Anger and peace were not the options, anger and Jesus were. There are plenty of other options, and clearly belief in Jesus is not the only way to avoid living a life of anger. Whether someone believes in another religion, or no religion, obviously they can live a life that is not "in anger."

I also would not consider peace the opposite of anger.

Jesus is the alternative to anger because He gives peace. Did you miss that point in the OP? There are other options to finding peace, but they all involve faith in something greater in the universe.

So I guess the binary is anger or faith.

And your opposite of anger would be . . . ?

I imagine that depends on how you are defining "something greater in the universe."

I don't believe that everyone has a choice between anger and faith. I think people can live happy, peaceful lives without spiritual or religious faith.

I'm not sure what the opposite of anger is, or if it actually has a clear opposite. The opposite of peace would be more like conflict or discontent IMO, though. While anger can cause that, so can other things.

I don't believe I've ever known anyone who lives a happy, peaceful life without faith. Not something I'm willing to just assume.

I think anger is a symptom of discontent. I think when you are truly peaceful and content inside, it's very hard to be moved to anger.

I agree that anger is an expression of internal turmoil. But there are many people who are mellow and happy who are also not religious.

Anger an expression of internal turmoil? Maybe sometimes...

Don't you get angry at injustice? deceit? being taken advantage of or slandered? Don't you believe in righteous indignation?

If you didn't it would be strange.

Maybe even an indication of cowardice or being paralyzed by fear.





These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

 

[MarathonMike]

Anger and peace were not the options, anger and Jesus were. There are plenty of other options, and clearly belief in Jesus is not the only way to avoid living a life of anger. Whether someone believes in another religion, or no religion, obviously they can live a life that is not "in anger."

I also would not consider peace the opposite of anger.

Jesus is the alternative to anger because He gives peace. Did you miss that point in the OP? There are other options to finding peace, but they all involve faith in something greater in the universe.

So I guess the binary is anger or faith.

And your opposite of anger would be . . . ?

I imagine that depends on how you are defining "something greater in the universe."

I don't believe that everyone has a choice between anger and faith. I think people can live happy, peaceful lives without spiritual or religious faith.

I'm not sure what the opposite of anger is, or if it actually has a clear opposite. The opposite of peace would be more like conflict or discontent IMO, though. While anger can cause that, so can other things.

I don't believe I've ever known anyone who lives a happy, peaceful life without faith. Not something I'm willing to just assume.

I think anger is a symptom of discontent. I think when you are truly peaceful and content inside, it's very hard to be moved to anger.

I agree that anger is an expression of internal turmoil. But there are many people who are mellow and happy who are also not religious.

Anger an expression of internal turmoil? Maybe sometimes...

Don't you get angry at injustice? deceit? being taken advantage of or slandered?

If you didn't it would be strange.

Maybe even an indication of cowardice or being paralyzed by fear.

I wasn't very clear. What I mean is the type of anger that is expressed in physical violence and abusive behavior. Sure I get angry, but I always return to center and never bear grudges to anyone.

 

[hobelim]

Jesus is the alternative to anger because He gives peace. Did you miss that point in the OP? There are other options to finding peace, but they all involve faith in something greater in the universe.

So I guess the binary is anger or faith.

And your opposite of anger would be . . . ?

I imagine that depends on how you are defining "something greater in the universe."

I don't believe that everyone has a choice between anger and faith. I think people can live happy, peaceful lives without spiritual or religious faith.

I'm not sure what the opposite of anger is, or if it actually has a clear opposite. The opposite of peace would be more like conflict or discontent IMO, though. While anger can cause that, so can other things.

I don't believe I've ever known anyone who lives a happy, peaceful life without faith. Not something I'm willing to just assume.

I think anger is a symptom of discontent. I think when you are truly peaceful and content inside, it's very hard to be moved to anger.

I agree that anger is an expression of internal turmoil. But there are many people who are mellow and happy who are also not religious.

Anger an expression of internal turmoil? Maybe sometimes...

Don't you get angry at injustice? deceit? being taken advantage of or slandered?

If you didn't it would be strange.

Maybe even an indication of cowardice or being paralyzed by fear.

I wasn't very clear. What I mean is the type of anger that is expressed in physical violence and abusive behavior. Sure I get angry, but I always return to center and never bear grudges to anyone.

Thanks for the clarification....

And I agree.. nursing a grudge is like fermenting a deadly poison in the mind.

 

[MarathonMike]

I imagine that depends on how you are defining "something greater in the universe."

I don't believe that everyone has a choice between anger and faith. I think people can live happy, peaceful lives without spiritual or religious faith.

I'm not sure what the opposite of anger is, or if it actually has a clear opposite. The opposite of peace would be more like conflict or discontent IMO, though. While anger can cause that, so can other things.

I don't believe I've ever known anyone who lives a happy, peaceful life without faith. Not something I'm willing to just assume.

I think anger is a symptom of discontent. I think when you are truly peaceful and content inside, it's very hard to be moved to anger.

I agree that anger is an expression of internal turmoil. But there are many people who are mellow and happy who are also not religious.

Anger an expression of internal turmoil? Maybe sometimes...

Don't you get angry at injustice? deceit? being taken advantage of or slandered?

If you didn't it would be strange.

Maybe even an indication of cowardice or being paralyzed by fear.

I wasn't very clear. What I mean is the type of anger that is expressed in physical violence and abusive behavior. Sure I get angry, but I always return to center and never bear grudges to anyone.

Thanks for the clarification....

And I agree.. nursing a grudge is like fermenting a deadly poison in the mind.

Interesting you used that analogy. I have a family member who I once told that his anger was a poison that was going to consume him.

 

[hobelim]

I don't believe I've ever known anyone who lives a happy, peaceful life without faith. Not something I'm willing to just assume.

I think anger is a symptom of discontent. I think when you are truly peaceful and content inside, it's very hard to be moved to anger.

I agree that anger is an expression of internal turmoil. But there are many people who are mellow and happy who are also not religious.

Anger an expression of internal turmoil? Maybe sometimes...

Don't you get angry at injustice? deceit? being taken advantage of or slandered?

If you didn't it would be strange.

Maybe even an indication of cowardice or being paralyzed by fear.

I wasn't very clear. What I mean is the type of anger that is expressed in physical violence and abusive behavior. Sure I get angry, but I always return to center and never bear grudges to anyone.

Thanks for the clarification....

And I agree.. nursing a grudge is like fermenting a deadly poison in the mind.

Interesting you used that analogy. I have a family member who I once told that his anger was a poison that was going to consume him.

I hope he heard you....

 

[MarathonMike]

I agree that anger is an expression of internal turmoil. But there are many people who are mellow and happy who are also not religious.

Anger an expression of internal turmoil? Maybe sometimes...

Don't you get angry at injustice? deceit? being taken advantage of or slandered?

If you didn't it would be strange.

Maybe even an indication of cowardice or being paralyzed by fear.

I wasn't very clear. What I mean is the type of anger that is expressed in physical violence and abusive behavior. Sure I get angry, but I always return to center and never bear grudges to anyone.

Thanks for the clarification....

And I agree.. nursing a grudge is like fermenting a deadly poison in the mind.

Interesting you used that analogy. I have a family member who I once told that his anger was a poison that was going to consume him.

I hope he heard you....

Hard to tell, he is really good at acting like everything is fine.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Not really sure what other options you find likely beyond anger or peace. I'm assuming you're going for "Can't you find peace without God?" Obviously, people do so, but usually through other faiths. Off the top of my head, I'd have to say it's very unlikely that you will come to a place of peace with catastrophic circumstances without some connection to a higher power in the universe, whatever that may be for you.

Anger and peace were not the options, anger and Jesus were. There are plenty of other options, and clearly belief in Jesus is not the only way to avoid living a life of anger. Whether someone believes in another religion, or no religion, obviously they can live a life that is not "in anger."

I also would not consider peace the opposite of anger.

Jesus is the alternative to anger because He gives peace. Did you miss that point in the OP? There are other options to finding peace, but they all involve faith in something greater in the universe.

So I guess the binary is anger or faith.

And your opposite of anger would be . . . ?

I imagine that depends on how you are defining "something greater in the universe."

I don't believe that everyone has a choice between anger and faith. I think people can live happy, peaceful lives without spiritual or religious faith.

I'm not sure what the opposite of anger is, or if it actually has a clear opposite. The opposite of peace would be more like conflict or discontent IMO, though. While anger can cause that, so can other things.

I don't believe I've ever known anyone who lives a happy, peaceful life without faith. Not something I'm willing to just assume.

I think anger is a symptom of discontent. I think when you are truly peaceful and content inside, it's very hard to be moved to anger.

I agree that anger is an expression of internal turmoil. But there are many people who are mellow and happy who are also not religious.

Again, never met one. Although since I keep saying "faith" and you're saying "religious", it's entirely possible that we're talking about two different things.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Jesus is the alternative to anger because He gives peace. Did you miss that point in the OP? There are other options to finding peace, but they all involve faith in something greater in the universe.

So I guess the binary is anger or faith.

And your opposite of anger would be . . . ?

I imagine that depends on how you are defining "something greater in the universe."

I don't believe that everyone has a choice between anger and faith. I think people can live happy, peaceful lives without spiritual or religious faith.

I'm not sure what the opposite of anger is, or if it actually has a clear opposite. The opposite of peace would be more like conflict or discontent IMO, though. While anger can cause that, so can other things.

I don't believe I've ever known anyone who lives a happy, peaceful life without faith. Not something I'm willing to just assume.

I think anger is a symptom of discontent. I think when you are truly peaceful and content inside, it's very hard to be moved to anger.

I agree that anger is an expression of internal turmoil. But there are many people who are mellow and happy who are also not religious.

Anger an expression of internal turmoil? Maybe sometimes...

Don't you get angry at injustice? deceit? being taken advantage of or slandered?

If you didn't it would be strange.

Maybe even an indication of cowardice or being paralyzed by fear.

I wasn't very clear. What I mean is the type of anger that is expressed in physical violence and abusive behavior. Sure I get angry, but I always return to center and never bear grudges to anyone.

When I am at peace inside, I don't get angry. At most, I can get irritated, but it expresses itself as a momentary exasperation and is more likely to resolve itself into compassion for the person irritating me than an assumption that he/she is just a jackass (which is usually where I end up when I'm angry). My internal thermostat becomes much more effective and I become much less self-absorbed when I have peace inside.

As for hobelim's questions (which I can't see except as part of quoting your post, since I have him on ignore), obviously I still don't like those things when I'm at peace inside, but I think anger is largely an expression of feeling helpless in the face of a hostile world, and you're more likely to feel that way when you feel out-of-control of yourself. When I'm at peace, I feel more of a conviction that this is wrong, and I must address and resolve the situation, but I don't feel the same sort of anger, because I feel as though I CAN address and resolve it.

Oh, and I'm much more likely to be able to address and resolve it effectively.

 

[Montrovant]

Are anger and Jesus the only 2 options?

Not really sure what other options you find likely beyond anger or peace. I'm assuming you're going for "Can't you find peace without God?" Obviously, people do so, but usually through other faiths. Off the top of my head, I'd have to say it's very unlikely that you will come to a place of peace with catastrophic circumstances without some connection to a higher power in the universe, whatever that may be for you.

Anger and peace were not the options, anger and Jesus were. There are plenty of other options, and clearly belief in Jesus is not the only way to avoid living a life of anger. Whether someone believes in another religion, or no religion, obviously they can live a life that is not "in anger."

I also would not consider peace the opposite of anger.

Jesus is the alternative to anger because He gives peace. Did you miss that point in the OP? There are other options to finding peace, but they all involve faith in something greater in the universe.

So I guess the binary is anger or faith.

And your opposite of anger would be . . . ?

I imagine that depends on how you are defining "something greater in the universe."

I don't believe that everyone has a choice between anger and faith. I think people can live happy, peaceful lives without spiritual or religious faith.

I'm not sure what the opposite of anger is, or if it actually has a clear opposite. The opposite of peace would be more like conflict or discontent IMO, though. While anger can cause that, so can other things.

I don't believe I've ever known anyone who lives a happy, peaceful life without faith. Not something I'm willing to just assume.

I think anger is a symptom of discontent. I think when you are truly peaceful and content inside, it's very hard to be moved to anger.

Keeping in mind the possibility of definition issues, I have.

One can feel discontent without anger, though. Sadness, fear, shock, there are a number of emotions that create discontent and prevent peace. Anger is certainly one of them, just not the only one, so a binary choice between peace and anger is a false choice IMO. And again, the OP choice wasn't between peace and anger, but between Jesus and anger.

 

[BreezeWood]

so a binary choice between peace and anger is a false choice IMO.

- choice does seem to be the emphasis of the OP and a possible consideration if choice were the subject matter as suggested in the two examples. and agree anger is not a very viable choice for the scenarios.

an example of displaced anger where the individual is themselves victimized unlike the examples given as in the case of a brutal rape the anger is not a choice but a reaction that in many cases may be resolved but until there is resolution there can be no peace. victimization is the sociopaths underlying motive. people's anger can become uncontrollable to their life's peril though innocent of the cause, a disease. working that out is not a call for Jesus.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Not really sure what other options you find likely beyond anger or peace. I'm assuming you're going for "Can't you find peace without God?" Obviously, people do so, but usually through other faiths. Off the top of my head, I'd have to say it's very unlikely that you will come to a place of peace with catastrophic circumstances without some connection to a higher power in the universe, whatever that may be for you.

Anger and peace were not the options, anger and Jesus were. There are plenty of other options, and clearly belief in Jesus is not the only way to avoid living a life of anger. Whether someone believes in another religion, or no religion, obviously they can live a life that is not "in anger."

I also would not consider peace the opposite of anger.

Jesus is the alternative to anger because He gives peace. Did you miss that point in the OP? There are other options to finding peace, but they all involve faith in something greater in the universe.

So I guess the binary is anger or faith.

And your opposite of anger would be . . . ?

I imagine that depends on how you are defining "something greater in the universe."

I don't believe that everyone has a choice between anger and faith. I think people can live happy, peaceful lives without spiritual or religious faith.

I'm not sure what the opposite of anger is, or if it actually has a clear opposite. The opposite of peace would be more like conflict or discontent IMO, though. While anger can cause that, so can other things.

I don't believe I've ever known anyone who lives a happy, peaceful life without faith. Not something I'm willing to just assume.

I think anger is a symptom of discontent. I think when you are truly peaceful and content inside, it's very hard to be moved to anger.

Keeping in mind the possibility of definition issues, I have.

One can feel discontent without anger, though. Sadness, fear, shock, there are a number of emotions that create discontent and prevent peace. Anger is certainly one of them, just not the only one, so a binary choice between peace and anger is a false choice IMO. And again, the OP choice wasn't between peace and anger, but between Jesus and anger.

Anger is not the only alternative to peace, although in my experience, it becomes a lot more likely when you're feeling sadness or discontent or whatever.

The OP choice WAS between peace and anger. It happens that the composer the OP was writing about found his peace with the world through Jesus. And if you know that hymn at all, you know it's all about having peace no matter what happens in your life; that's what the title "It is well with my soul" means.

 

[Montrovant]

Anger and peace were not the options, anger and Jesus were. There are plenty of other options, and clearly belief in Jesus is not the only way to avoid living a life of anger. Whether someone believes in another religion, or no religion, obviously they can live a life that is not "in anger."

I also would not consider peace the opposite of anger.

Jesus is the alternative to anger because He gives peace. Did you miss that point in the OP? There are other options to finding peace, but they all involve faith in something greater in the universe.

So I guess the binary is anger or faith.

And your opposite of anger would be . . . ?

I imagine that depends on how you are defining "something greater in the universe."

I don't believe that everyone has a choice between anger and faith. I think people can live happy, peaceful lives without spiritual or religious faith.

I'm not sure what the opposite of anger is, or if it actually has a clear opposite. The opposite of peace would be more like conflict or discontent IMO, though. While anger can cause that, so can other things.

I don't believe I've ever known anyone who lives a happy, peaceful life without faith. Not something I'm willing to just assume.

I think anger is a symptom of discontent. I think when you are truly peaceful and content inside, it's very hard to be moved to anger.

Keeping in mind the possibility of definition issues, I have.

One can feel discontent without anger, though. Sadness, fear, shock, there are a number of emotions that create discontent and prevent peace. Anger is certainly one of them, just not the only one, so a binary choice between peace and anger is a false choice IMO. And again, the OP choice wasn't between peace and anger, but between Jesus and anger.

Anger is not the only alternative to peace, although in my experience, it becomes a lot more likely when you're feeling sadness or discontent or whatever.

The OP choice WAS between peace and anger. It happens that the composer the OP was writing about found his peace with the world through Jesus. And if you know that hymn at all, you know it's all about having peace no matter what happens in your life; that's what the title "It is well with my soul" means.

You may interpret what the OP said as a choice between peace and anger, but what he actually said was a choice between Jesus and anger. Since I don't think that Jesus = peace (not that one cannot find peace through faith in Jesus, just that Jesus is not the only way for a person to find peace), I disagree with the OP.

Also, based on other posts I've seen from the OP, I very much doubt he meant simply a choice between peace and anger. I think he very specifically meant Jesus, as he said.