Over 40 million americans living in extreme poverty.

[dilloduck]

Nope. Try again?

It'a against the law to make more than your parents.

 

[Larkinn]

My mother lived in poverty and still would if I didn't help her out. Care to guess again?

Your confusing necessary and sufficient.

If your born middle class its easy to stay out of poverty, unless your very unlucky, or very stupid.

If your born in poverty its hard to get out of poverty unless your very lucky, or very smart.

If my parents weren't middle class, and didn't spring for an LSAT course long ago when I was thinking about law school, not sure what I would have done. But I would definitely be in a FAR worse place than I am now. Those courses, btw, run around $1200 a pop.

 

[Larkinn]

It'a against the law to make more than your parents.

My, but you are bad at this.

 

[dilloduck]

My, but you are bad at this.

I know but us poor folk can't help it ----spare change ?

 

[Turboswede]

If my parents weren't middle class, and didn't spring for an LSAT course long ago when I was thinking about law school, not sure what I would have done. But I would definitely be in a FAR worse place than I am now. Those courses, btw, run around $1200 a pop.

Bhaaa, LSAT prep courses are for losers. Real men take the LSAT hung over, just like the SAT.

(I am kidding BTW)

 

[Larkinn]

Bhaaa, LSAT prep courses are for losers. Real men take the LSAT hung over, just like the SAT.

(I am kidding BTW)

Haha, I know . I teach the LSAT now...basically everyone needs to take a course, as sad as that is. I tell people to take one even if they need to take out a loan to get the money...its stupid how much it helps and how important it is to get into school.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Study: Gap growing between rich, poor
A report from a Paris-based organization said the United States has the highest inequality and poverty rates among member countries.

Study: Gap growing between rich, poor | MiamiHerald.com

 

[dilloduck]

Study: Gap growing between rich, poor
A report from a Paris-based organization said the United States has the highest inequality and poverty rates among member countries.

Study: Gap growing between rich, poor | MiamiHerald.com

So do we march on the rich yet ?

 

[frazzledgear]

Why is that?

QUOTE=MichaelCollins;853306]Why is that?[/QUOTE]

"Extreme" poverty? Exactly what do you consider to be extreme poverty? The Census Bureau releases these figures -and says there are nearly 40 million living below the poverty line. Not that they are living in extreme poverty.

In this country, the "poverty line" is considered to be the line at which there exists a "lack of goods and services taken for granted by those in the mainstream" (along with various means of trying to determine where that line is) In 1963, 34.6 million Americans were said to be living in poverty. In 2008, it is now roughly 40 million although overall population has gone from not quite 190 million in 1963 to nearly 305 million people today.

The definition used by the UN and international agencies define it as "having insufficient income to provide the food, shelter and clothing needed to preserve health". That means OUR definition is a measure of the standard of living of poor Americans relative to that of wealthier Americans only -and is not a measure of deprivation of the basic necessities of life as is used by international organizations and the UN. Since there will always be some at the bottom of the economic ladder in comparison to wealthier people -by using our own definition of "poverty" -we will ALWAYS have people living in US-defined poverty. No matter how wealthy in comparison to those in other countries they may be.

In fact, our own definition ends up greatly exaggerating the extent of poverty in this country since it is not a true measure of poverty and deprivation at all -and that must be taken into consideration when discussing US poverty compared to poverty in any other nation or globally. These are not comparable statistics with other nations because each nation defines and measures "poverty" as they choose. We are only comparing the standard of living among our OWN citizens and no other country and not measuring true deprivation of necessities at all. That is because the level of true deprivation of the necessities of life is nearly nonexistent in this country.

So the fact the UK reports 17% of their own population to be living in poverty means nothing in comparison to our own self-generated statistics because we don't use identical definitions or measures. By OUR definition and measures which are based on the comparison of those at the bottom to wealthier American citizens -the UK would show far more than that to be living in poverty -although it doesn't mean they actually have far more suffering from true deprivation whatsoever. Worst of all are those organizations with a political agenda deliberately interchanging definitions in order to insist the US is the only industrialized nation in the entire world that blandly "tolerates" tens of millions of people nearly starving to death on any given day -as Bread for World Institute recently did. (Which flies in the face of the fact that the greatest health concern for our poor is OBESITY!)

The definition used by the UN and international agencies considers "extreme poverty" to be someone earning less than $400 a year, with inadequate shelter against the elements and little to no access to education or healthcare. And whose greatest healthcare concern is a lack of calories.

Sorry to disappoint you when I know how much you want to believe the very worst about your own country - but extreme poverty doesn't exist in this country. Which is why we must use our own definition of poverty. (You can find addicts and alcoholics suffering from poor nutrition because such people frequently don't eat properly -but that isn't the same thing as starvation because food just isn't available.)

This is why the typical poor person in this country is likely to own at least one color TV, a microwave, automatic dishwasher, their own car, a DVD or VCR, both a cell and landline telephone, 80% have air conditioning (compared to just 36% of the entire population back in 1970), have cable/satellite reception - and taxpayer provided access to both education and healthcare. The most pressing healthcare concern of our poor is OBESITY -the exact opposite of those who actually DO live in extreme poverty in the world.

71% of all American households report having at least 2 rooms per person living there. Among our poor it is 66%. The average poor American has more living space than the average middle class person living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens and many European countries and has 25% more living space than the average middle class Japanese.

Overall, the living standard of most poor Americans is far higher than is generally appreciated. The overwhelming majority of poor families are well housed, have adequate food, and enjoy a wide range of modern amenities, including air conditioning and cable television. Some 70 percent of poor households report that during the course of the past year they were able to meet "all essential expenses," including mortgage, rent, utility bills, and important medical care. That doesn't mean our poor don't have problems -about 1/3 scramble on a regular basis to make ends meet and are late in paying rent or utility bills at some point during the year and 1.5% said they "often did not have enough to eat" while another 6% reported this "sometimes" happened. But does this represent "extreme" poverty? Not even close. On average, poor children have the same high levels of protein, vitamin, and mineral consumption as upper middle class kids -which is why a poor boy in the US today will be on average 1 inch taller and 10 lbs. heavier than the height and weight of the average soldier who stormed the beaches of Normandy in WWll.

It is the reason that this country is the preferred destination of the majority of the world's immigrating poor. Being poor in this country represents a tremendous step up in the standard of living compared to being poor in their own country.

Food Stamp Fakery - April 4, 2008 - The New York Sun

How Poor Are America's Poor? Examining the "Plague" of Poverty in America

Poverty and Dependency in America

 

[dilloduck]

QUOTE=MichaelCollins;853306]Why is that?

"Extreme" poverty? Exactly what do you consider to be extreme poverty? The Census Bureau releases these figures -and says there are nearly 40 million living below the poverty line. Not that they are living in extreme poverty.

In this country, the "poverty line" is considered to be the line at which there exists a "lack of goods and services taken for granted by those in the mainstream" (along with various means of trying to determine where that line is) In 1963, 34.6 million Americans were said to be living in poverty. In 2008, it is now roughly 40 million although overall population has gone from not quite 190 million in 1963 to nearly 305 million people today.

The definition used by the UN and international agencies define it as "having insufficient income to provide the food, shelter and clothing needed to preserve health". That means OUR definition is a measure of the standard of living of poor Americans relative to that of wealthier Americans only -and is not a measure of deprivation of the basic necessities of life as is used by international organizations and the UN. Since there will always be some at the bottom of the economic ladder in comparison to wealthier people -by using our own definition of "poverty" -we will ALWAYS have people living in US-defined poverty. No matter how wealthy in comparison to those in other countries they may be.

In fact, our own definition ends up greatly exaggerating the extent of poverty in this country since it is not a true measure of poverty and deprivation at all -and that must be taken into consideration when discussing US poverty compared to poverty in any other nation or globally. These are not comparable statistics with other nations because each nation defines and measures "poverty" as they choose. We are only comparing the standard of living among our OWN citizens and no other country and not measuring true deprivation of necessities at all. That is because the level of true deprivation of the necessities of life is nearly nonexistent in this country.

So the fact the UK reports 17% of their own population to be living in poverty means nothing in comparison to our own self-generated statistics because we don't use identical definitions or measures. By OUR definition and measures which are based on the comparison of those at the bottom to wealthier American citizens -the UK would show far more than that to be living in poverty -although it doesn't mean they actually have far more suffering from true deprivation whatsoever. Worst of all are those organizations with a political agenda deliberately interchanging definitions in order to insist the US is the only industrialized nation in the entire world that blandly "tolerates" tens of millions of people nearly starving to death on any given day -as Bread for World Institute recently did. (Which flies in the face of the fact that the greatest health concern for our poor is OBESITY!)

The definition used by the UN and international agencies considers "extreme poverty" to be someone earning less than $400 a year, with inadequate shelter against the elements and little to no access to education or healthcare. And whose greatest healthcare concern is a lack of calories.

Sorry to disappoint you when I know how much you want to believe the very worst about your own country - but extreme poverty doesn't exist in this country. Which is why we must use our own definition of poverty. (You can find addicts and alcoholics suffering from poor nutrition because such people frequently don't eat properly -but that isn't the same thing as starvation because food just isn't available.)

This is why the typical poor person in this country is likely to own at least one color TV, a microwave, automatic dishwasher, their own car, a DVD or VCR, both a cell and landline telephone, 80% have air conditioning (compared to just 36% of the entire population back in 1970), have cable/satellite reception - and taxpayer provided access to both education and healthcare. The most pressing healthcare concern of our poor is OBESITY -the exact opposite of those who actually DO live in extreme poverty in the world.

71% of all American households report having at least 2 rooms per person living there. Among our poor it is 66%. The average poor American has more living space than the average middle class person living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens and many European countries and has 25% more living space than the average middle class Japanese.

Overall, the living standard of most poor Americans is far higher than is generally appreciated. The overwhelming majority of poor families are well housed, have adequate food, and enjoy a wide range of modern amenities, including air conditioning and cable television. Some 70 percent of poor households report that during the course of the past year they were able to meet "all essential expenses," including mortgage, rent, utility bills, and important medical care. That doesn't mean our poor don't have problems -about 1/3 scramble on a regular basis to make ends meet and are late in paying rent or utility bills at some point during the year and 1.5% said they "often did not have enough to eat" while another 6% reported this "sometimes" happened. But does this represent "extreme" poverty? Not even close. On average, poor children have the same high levels of protein, vitamin, and mineral consumption as upper middle class kids -which is why a poor boy in the US today will be on average 1 inch taller and 10 lbs. heavier than the height and weight of the average soldier who stormed the beaches of Normandy in WWll.

It is the reason that this country is the preferred destination of the majority of the world's immigrating poor. Being poor in this country represents a tremendous step up in the standard of living compared to being poor in their own country.

Food Stamp Fakery - April 4, 2008 - The New York Sun

How Poor Are America's Poor? Examining the "Plague" of Poverty in America

Poverty and Dependency in America[/QUOTE]

 

[oreo]

Why is that?

SOURCE PLEASE? If there are 40 million Americans out of 193 million Americans living in extreme poverty--would you please let us know where they're at?

Did they move to Mexico?

 

[Turboswede]

Extreme poverty is almost unheard of in the United States, the only people who may fall into that category are the mentally ill homeless (please no beggars make more than I do posts). I think anyone who argues that a rising tide does not raise all boats is delusional as a “poverty level” income for a US resident would be considered comfortably middle class in many parts of the world.
So, are we supposed to be happy that the poor in the US are not as poor as they could be? I don’t think Americans should pat themselves on the back because our poor are not as bad off as the poor in Calcutta, or Cairo, Bangladesh or Rio. I mean come on, just about everyone in America has something over their head and something in the cupboard.

I think the issue here is with “poverty” in the industrialized world which is where the U.S. should set its sights. America should not be satisfied with last place on a list of developed world literacy or Mortality rates. So our Infant mortality is less than that of Zaire, is that something to be proud of?

 

[dilloduck]

Extreme poverty is almost unheard of in the United States, the only people who may fall into that category are the mentally ill homeless (please no beggars make more than I do posts). I think anyone who argues that a rising tide does not raise all boats is delusional as a “poverty level” income for a US resident would be considered comfortably middle class in many parts of the world.
So, are we supposed to be happy that the poor in the US are not as poor as they could be? I don’t think Americans should pat themselves on the back because our poor are not as bad off as the poor in Calcutta, or Cairo, Bangladesh or Rio. I mean come on, just about everyone in America has something over their head and something in the cupboard.

I think the issue here is with “poverty” in the industrialized world which is where the U.S. should set its sights. America should not be satisfied with last place on a list of developed world literacy or Mortality rates. So our Infant mortality is less than that of Zaire, is that something to be proud of?

No one is proud of the poor in America but lets not overdo it and pretend they are eating mud like the Haitians either. It has the capacity to get way worse----globally.

 

[frazzledgear]

Your confusing necessary and sufficient.

If your born middle class its easy to stay out of poverty, unless your very unlucky, or very stupid.

If your born in poverty its hard to get out of poverty unless your very lucky, or very smart.

If my parents weren't middle class, and didn't spring for an LSAT course long ago when I was thinking about law school, not sure what I would have done. But I would definitely be in a FAR worse place than I am now. Those courses, btw, run around $1200 a pop.

Actually that isn't true. Mobility within the economic classes is the most fluid in this country compared to any other. And that is true for the very top as well as the very bottom -as government reports show. More than 90% of those in the top 10% of all income earners -are not the same people as were in that group even 7 years ago -and won't be among those at that level in another 7 years. Likewise, the majority of those at the very bottom in any given year -are not going to be the same people in another 7 years. Poverty is greatest among those in their teens to mid-20s. For a reason -these are the least experienced workers and therefore cannot command greater salaries yet, many are part-time workers and includes the same age group that is most likely to still be in school. For all years of college, I lived below the poverty line -and so did all my friends.

It is just like the fact that half of those without healthcare insurance will have it within 6 months and 80% will by the end of one year and nearly all will within 18 months. Those going without insurance, like those at the very bottom or top economically at any given time -may be a fairly stable NUMBER -but are not the very same people year after year.

However it is a known fact that government dependency through entitlements discourages some at the bottom from trying to improve their economic status and that dependency-spawned inertia can and does get handed down to following generations who continue to follow that pattern of behavior. But that has nothing to do with whether they are "intelligent enough" or "lucky enough" to be able to do so or CAN do so -only whether they choose to do so. Unlike what is true in nearly any other country about their own poor, in this country only about 2% of the population is chronically poor while the other 9-12% (as it cyclically fluctuates) of the poor are temporarily poor and will go on to improve their economic status.

It appears you have some preconceptions about the subject that just aren't true. I live in a racially mixed neighborhood with many economically upward mobile families who at one point or another were living below the poverty line and are now upper middle class. It is nothing unique at all.

U.S. Census Bureau, “Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2003.”
http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p60-226.pdf.

U.S. Census Bureau, “Dynamics of Economic Wellbeing: Poverty 1996-1999.” Survey of Income and Program Participation (SIPP)

U.S. Census Bureau, “Dynamics of Economic Well-being: Movements in the U.S. Income Distribution 1996-1999” Survey of Income and Program Participation (SIPP)

U.S. Census Bureau, “Dynamics of Economic Well-being: Health Insurance 1996-1999” Survey of Income and Program Participation (SIPP)

Derek Hunter, “Counting the Uninsured: Why Congress Should Look Beyond the Census Figures” Counting the Uninsured: Why Congress Should Look Beyond the Census Figures

Shailesh Bhandari, “People with Health Insurance: A Comparison of Estimates from Two Surveys,” Survey of Income and Program Participation Survey of Income and Program Participation (SIPP)

 

[Larkinn]

There is a lot more mixing with the middle class and the rich, than with the poor and middle class.

Please provide a link that states that the majority of people in poverty now, will NOT be in poverty in 7 years, as you claimed.

 

[Turboswede]

Agreed,
In America one has the best opportunity to move up and down the socio/economic ladder. I guess with me anyway the trend I see is that opportunity for social mobility is contracting more and more as wealth and power become more concentrated at the top end of the spectrum.

I think trust is a major issue, I don’t trust the wealthy as they have more and more resources to shape public opinion and frame political arguments. I just think about the movement to repeal the estate tax, the capital tax rate on dividends and I see these as clear attempts to protect the current economic status quo.

 

[frazzledgear]

There is a lot more mixing with the middle class and the rich, than with the poor and middle class.

Please provide a link that states that the majority of people in poverty now, will NOT be in poverty in 7 years, as you claimed.

What do you think all those links at the end of my post were for? I GAVE you my sources.

Now please provide YOUR authoritative source for the ludicrous claim there is a lot more "mixing" with middle class and the rich -than with the poor and middle class. Especially since my sources contradict that bit of silliness. Since the vast majority of the poor move UP economically and do not remain chronically poor -just who do you think they are "mixing" with at that point? LOL

 

[Larkinn]

What do you think all those links at the end of my post were for? I GAVE you my sources.

You gave me hundreds and hundreds of pages of documents. I'm not trawling through all of that in the faith that what you claimed is actually there. Give me a specific link.

Now please provide YOUR authoritative source for the ludicrous claim there is a lot more "mixing" with middle class and the rich -than with the poor and middle class. Especially since my sources contradict that bit of silliness. Since the vast majority of the poor move UP economically and do not remain chronically poor -just who do you think they are "mixing" with at that point? LOL

You first, dearie.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Um, the answer is simple, the people who are not in poverty had parents that were not impovrished. So how does that answer help?

My father was raised in poverty by an absentee father and an alcoholic mother who beat him yet he still managed to get into USC. He studied his ass off and then camped outside the admissions office at Loma Linda University until a spot opened up. Then he transfered to USC where he graduated in 1965.
Your answer is typical of lazy people who sit around waiting for handouts all the while complaining that they're going nowhere. You probably believe the notion that there are forces out there "keeping you down" when in fact the only think keeping you down is yourself.
And no, my father didn't pay for my education either. I had to apply and pay for my own college education.

 

[Turboswede]

My father was raised in poverty by an absentee father and an alcoholic mother who beat him yet he still managed to get into USC. He studied his ass off and then camped outside the admissions office at Loma Linda University until a spot opened up. Then he transfered to USC where he graduated in 1965.
Your answer is typical of lazy people who sit around waiting for handouts all the while complaining that they're going nowhere. You probably believe the notion that there are forces out there "keeping you down" when in fact the only think keeping you down is yourself.
And no, my father didn't pay for my education either. I had to apply and pay for my own college education.

Most people don’t consider me lazy, but they do consider me compassionate. I was raised by a single mother who struggled with poverty and lost a brother to pneumonia growing up due to poor health care. I paid my way through school too working full time during the school year and over summers.

I don’t understand why it needs to be as hard for everyone else as it was for me. I remember not having any place to turn when the rent was due and being dropped from my classes due to failure to pay tuition on time and then dealing with the late fees and the effort to get re instated so my credits wouldn’t be pulled. It was hard and I am amazed that I actually got through it.

Why does it need to be that hard? If you paid your delta with all the issues of working full time and going to school why wouldn’t you want to make it easier for the next generation? I was looking and in my home state the minimum wage has gone up 60% over the past 15 years while tuition has gone up 90%. I don’t know if I would have been able to pay for school today if I needed to go through it again.

Where does all the anger come from, is it just that people need to suffer as much as we did?