Out of Step with History.

[pbel]

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli diplomats have put foreign leaders on notice that their country will consider its historic peace accords with the Palestinians null and void if they ask the
Israel: Palestinian UN bid could threaten accords - Yahoo! News

United Nations for a state, according to a document obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press.

The list of Foreign Ministry talking points also instructs diplomats to tell world leaders that Israel will retaliate against the move, without specifying details.

The Palestinians, frustrated with a four-year impasse in peace efforts, say they will ask the U.N. General Assembly on Nov. 29 to give them upgraded observer status. A draft resolution floated by the Palestinians seeks international recognition of their state in the West Bank, east Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip, territories captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast war.

Israel and the U.S. strongly oppose the effort, saying all matters must be resolved through negotiations. On Wednesday, a U.S. envoy was set to meet the Palestinian president in Switzerland in a last-ditch bid to halt the bid.

 

[toomuchtime_]

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli diplomats have put foreign leaders on notice that their country will consider its historic peace accords with the Palestinians null and void if they ask the
Israel: Palestinian UN bid could threaten accords - Yahoo! News

United Nations for a state, according to a document obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press.

The list of Foreign Ministry talking points also instructs diplomats to tell world leaders that Israel will retaliate against the move, without specifying details.

The Palestinians, frustrated with a four-year impasse in peace efforts, say they will ask the U.N. General Assembly on Nov. 29 to give them upgraded observer status. A draft resolution floated by the Palestinians seeks international recognition of their state in the West Bank, east Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip, territories captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast war.

Israel and the U.S. strongly oppose the effort, saying all matters must be resolved through negotiations. On Wednesday, a U.S. envoy was set to meet the Palestinian president in Switzerland in a last-ditch bid to halt the bid.

If the UNGA grants the PA non member state status recognizing the 1948 ceasefire line as one of the state's borders with Israel and with Jerusalem as its capital, Oslo is automatically dead because after that no PA leader will be able to enter negotiations with borders and Jerusalem on the table and no Israeli PM will be able to enter negotiations if the are not on the table. No negotiated peaceful two state solution will be possible, the Israeli right will grow stronger arguing that if the PA is taking unilateral action Israel is justified in taking unilateral action and push for more Israeli development in Area C since now it is no longer subject to negotiations.

Lieberman is right. Abbas' purpose in pushing this initiative is to protect his own leadership position, not to advance the nationalist aspirations of the Palestinian Arabs.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli diplomats have put foreign leaders on notice that their country will consider its historic peace accords with the Palestinians null and void if they ask the
Israel: Palestinian UN bid could threaten accords - Yahoo! News

United Nations for a state, according to a document obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press.

The list of Foreign Ministry talking points also instructs diplomats to tell world leaders that Israel will retaliate against the move, without specifying details.

The Palestinians, frustrated with a four-year impasse in peace efforts, say they will ask the U.N. General Assembly on Nov. 29 to give them upgraded observer status. A draft resolution floated by the Palestinians seeks international recognition of their state in the West Bank, east Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip, territories captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast war.

Israel and the U.S. strongly oppose the effort, saying all matters must be resolved through negotiations. On Wednesday, a U.S. envoy was set to meet the Palestinian president in Switzerland in a last-ditch bid to halt the bid.

If the UNGA grants the PA non member state status recognizing the 1948 ceasefire line as one of the state's borders with Israel and with Jerusalem as its capital, Oslo is automatically dead because after that no PA leader will be able to enter negotiations with borders and Jerusalem on the table and no Israeli PM will be able to enter negotiations if the are not on the table. No negotiated peaceful two state solution will be possible, the Israeli right will grow stronger arguing that if the PA is taking unilateral action Israel is justified in taking unilateral action and push for more Israeli development in Area C since now it is no longer subject to negotiations.

Lieberman is right. Abbas' purpose in pushing this initiative is to protect his own leadership position, not to advance the nationalist aspirations of the Palestinian Arabs.

Semantics.

 

[toomuchtime_]

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli diplomats have put foreign leaders on notice that their country will consider its historic peace accords with the Palestinians null and void if they ask the
Israel: Palestinian UN bid could threaten accords - Yahoo! News

United Nations for a state, according to a document obtained Wednesday by The Associated Press.

The list of Foreign Ministry talking points also instructs diplomats to tell world leaders that Israel will retaliate against the move, without specifying details.

The Palestinians, frustrated with a four-year impasse in peace efforts, say they will ask the U.N. General Assembly on Nov. 29 to give them upgraded observer status. A draft resolution floated by the Palestinians seeks international recognition of their state in the West Bank, east Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip, territories captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast war.

Israel and the U.S. strongly oppose the effort, saying all matters must be resolved through negotiations. On Wednesday, a U.S. envoy was set to meet the Palestinian president in Switzerland in a last-ditch bid to halt the bid.

If the UNGA grants the PA non member state status recognizing the 1948 ceasefire line as one of the state's borders with Israel and with Jerusalem as its capital, Oslo is automatically dead because after that no PA leader will be able to enter negotiations with borders and Jerusalem on the table and no Israeli PM will be able to enter negotiations if the are not on the table. No negotiated peaceful two state solution will be possible, the Israeli right will grow stronger arguing that if the PA is taking unilateral action Israel is justified in taking unilateral action and push for more Israeli development in Area C since now it is no longer subject to negotiations.

Lieberman is right. Abbas' purpose in pushing this initiative is to protect his own leadership position, not to advance the nationalist aspirations of the Palestinian Arabs.

Semantics.

No, politics. While there is no possibility of a full negotiated peaceful two state solution anytime in the foreseeable future, even Lieberman has suggested the possibility of recognizing a Palestinian state with temporary borders. This would not be possible if the UNGA grants the PA non member state status with the 1948 ceasefire line as one of its borders and Jerusalem its capital. To a point, negotiations are preferable to war, and when you can no longer talk about the important issues, war becomes more likely.

 

[P F Tinmore]

If the UNGA grants the PA non member state status recognizing the 1948 ceasefire line as one of the state's borders with Israel and with Jerusalem as its capital, Oslo is automatically dead because after that no PA leader will be able to enter negotiations with borders and Jerusalem on the table and no Israeli PM will be able to enter negotiations if the are not on the table. No negotiated peaceful two state solution will be possible, the Israeli right will grow stronger arguing that if the PA is taking unilateral action Israel is justified in taking unilateral action and push for more Israeli development in Area C since now it is no longer subject to negotiations.

Lieberman is right. Abbas' purpose in pushing this initiative is to protect his own leadership position, not to advance the nationalist aspirations of the Palestinian Arabs.

Semantics.

No, politics. While there is no possibility of a full negotiated peaceful two state solution anytime in the foreseeable future, even Lieberman has suggested the possibility of recognizing a Palestinian state with temporary borders. This would not be possible if the UNGA grants the PA non member state status with the 1948 ceasefire line as one of its borders and Jerusalem its capital. To a point, negotiations are preferable to war, and when you can no longer talk about the important issues, war becomes more likely.

To a point, negotiations are preferable to war, and when you can no longer talk about the important issues, war becomes more likely.

Israel has chosen war a long time ago.

Jerusalem is off the table. Refugees are off the table, '67 borders are off the table. Settlements are off the table. The Jordan valley is off the table.

What is left to negotiate? The size if the bantustans?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Semantics.

No, politics. While there is no possibility of a full negotiated peaceful two state solution anytime in the foreseeable future, even Lieberman has suggested the possibility of recognizing a Palestinian state with temporary borders. This would not be possible if the UNGA grants the PA non member state status with the 1948 ceasefire line as one of its borders and Jerusalem its capital. To a point, negotiations are preferable to war, and when you can no longer talk about the important issues, war becomes more likely.

To a point, negotiations are preferable to war, and when you can no longer talk about the important issues, war becomes more likely.

Israel has chosen war a long time ago.

Jerusalem is off the table. Refugees are off the table, '67 borders are off the table. Settlements are off the table. The Jordan valley is off the table.

What is left to negotiate? The size if the bantustans?

Israel has repeatedly said it is willing to start talks with not pre conditions, but the PA will not talk without pre conditions. No pre conditions means everything is on the table.

As a practical matter, with whom would Israel negotiate? Neither Abbas nor Hamas can speak for all the Palestinian Arabs so no final status solution is possible until the Palestinian Arabs settle their civil war and form a unified government, but a provisional solution could be worked out in anticipation of that time and in fact might lead to a transitional phase in which, as Lieberman has suggested, Israel would recognize a Palestinian state with temporary borders. Of course, none of this is possible once the UNGA recognizes a Palestinian state with the 1948 ceasefire line as one of its borders with Israel and with Jerusalem as its capital.

 

[P F Tinmore]

No, politics. While there is no possibility of a full negotiated peaceful two state solution anytime in the foreseeable future, even Lieberman has suggested the possibility of recognizing a Palestinian state with temporary borders. This would not be possible if the UNGA grants the PA non member state status with the 1948 ceasefire line as one of its borders and Jerusalem its capital. To a point, negotiations are preferable to war, and when you can no longer talk about the important issues, war becomes more likely.

To a point, negotiations are preferable to war, and when you can no longer talk about the important issues, war becomes more likely.

Israel has chosen war a long time ago.

Jerusalem is off the table. Refugees are off the table, '67 borders are off the table. Settlements are off the table. The Jordan valley is off the table.

What is left to negotiate? The size if the bantustans?

Israel has repeatedly said it is willing to start talks with not pre conditions, but the PA will not talk without pre conditions. No pre conditions means everything is on the table.

As a practical matter, with whom would Israel negotiate? Neither Abbas nor Hamas can speak for all the Palestinian Arabs so no final status solution is possible until the Palestinian Arabs settle their civil war and form a unified government, but a provisional solution could be worked out in anticipation of that time and in fact might lead to a transitional phase in which, as Lieberman has suggested, Israel would recognize a Palestinian state with temporary borders. Of course, none of this is possible once the UNGA recognizes a Palestinian state with the 1948 ceasefire line as one of its borders with Israel and with Jerusalem as its capital.

Israel has repeatedly said it is willing to start talks with not pre conditions,

Israel is going to forgo all its preconditions?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Israel has chosen war a long time ago.

Jerusalem is off the table. Refugees are off the table, '67 borders are off the table. Settlements are off the table. The Jordan valley is off the table.

What is left to negotiate? The size if the bantustans?

Israel has repeatedly said it is willing to start talks with not pre conditions, but the PA will not talk without pre conditions. No pre conditions means everything is on the table.

As a practical matter, with whom would Israel negotiate? Neither Abbas nor Hamas can speak for all the Palestinian Arabs so no final status solution is possible until the Palestinian Arabs settle their civil war and form a unified government, but a provisional solution could be worked out in anticipation of that time and in fact might lead to a transitional phase in which, as Lieberman has suggested, Israel would recognize a Palestinian state with temporary borders. Of course, none of this is possible once the UNGA recognizes a Palestinian state with the 1948 ceasefire line as one of its borders with Israel and with Jerusalem as its capital.

Israel has repeatedly said it is willing to start talks with not pre conditions,

Israel is going to forgo all its preconditions?

Netanyahu has repeatedly said he is willing to restart talks without any pre conditions. Abbas has demanded a end to all building in the West Bank and variously Obama's call for the 1948 ceasefire line to be the West Bank border or for Olment's final offer that Abbas refused to accept to be pre conditions for restarting the talks he had previously walked away from.

But why should any of this interest you, a Hamas supporter, since Hamas opposes all talks with Israel?

 

[Roudy]

Israel has chosen war a long time ago.

Jerusalem is off the table. Refugees are off the table, '67 borders are off the table. Settlements are off the table. The Jordan valley is off the table.

What is left to negotiate? The size if the bantustans?

Israel has repeatedly said it is willing to start talks with not pre conditions, but the PA will not talk without pre conditions. No pre conditions means everything is on the table.

As a practical matter, with whom would Israel negotiate? Neither Abbas nor Hamas can speak for all the Palestinian Arabs so no final status solution is possible until the Palestinian Arabs settle their civil war and form a unified government, but a provisional solution could be worked out in anticipation of that time and in fact might lead to a transitional phase in which, as Lieberman has suggested, Israel would recognize a Palestinian state with temporary borders. Of course, none of this is possible once the UNGA recognizes a Palestinian state with the 1948 ceasefire line as one of its borders with Israel and with Jerusalem as its capital.

Israel has repeatedly said it is willing to start talks with not pre conditions,

Israel is going to forgo all its preconditions?

It did, during the Bill Clinton era with Arafat and Barak. Gave them almost everything they wanted, including most of those that you just listed as "off the table".

Nah, the Palestinian idea of "peace" is the total destruction of the state of Israel. Good luck with that. LOL.

 

[docmauser1]

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israeli diplomats have put foreign leaders on notice that their country will consider its historic peace accords with the Palestinians null and void if they ask the ...

About time, palistanians haven't been honoring the accords anyway.

 

[docmauser1]

Jerusalem is off the table. Refugees are off the table, '67 borders are off the table. Settlements are off the table. The Jordan valley is off the table. What is left to negotiate? The size if the bantustans?

Did palistanians honestly think that offers would be there forever? Palistanianbs should learn to act like grown-ups and get a life and a job, of course.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel has repeatedly said it is willing to start talks with not pre conditions, but the PA will not talk without pre conditions. No pre conditions means everything is on the table.

As a practical matter, with whom would Israel negotiate? Neither Abbas nor Hamas can speak for all the Palestinian Arabs so no final status solution is possible until the Palestinian Arabs settle their civil war and form a unified government, but a provisional solution could be worked out in anticipation of that time and in fact might lead to a transitional phase in which, as Lieberman has suggested, Israel would recognize a Palestinian state with temporary borders. Of course, none of this is possible once the UNGA recognizes a Palestinian state with the 1948 ceasefire line as one of its borders with Israel and with Jerusalem as its capital.

Israel has repeatedly said it is willing to start talks with not pre conditions,

Israel is going to forgo all its preconditions?

Netanyahu has repeatedly said he is willing to restart talks without any pre conditions. Abbas has demanded a end to all building in the West Bank and variously Obama's call for the 1948 ceasefire line to be the West Bank border or for Olment's final offer that Abbas refused to accept to be pre conditions for restarting the talks he had previously walked away from.

But why should any of this interest you, a Hamas supporter, since Hamas opposes all talks with Israel?

Netanyahu has repeatedly said he is willing to restart talks without any pre conditions.

Yeah but he is a lying sack of shit.

What about my list above. How about the precondition of having to recognize Israel's right to exist?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel has repeatedly said it is willing to start talks with not pre conditions, but the PA will not talk without pre conditions. No pre conditions means everything is on the table.

As a practical matter, with whom would Israel negotiate? Neither Abbas nor Hamas can speak for all the Palestinian Arabs so no final status solution is possible until the Palestinian Arabs settle their civil war and form a unified government, but a provisional solution could be worked out in anticipation of that time and in fact might lead to a transitional phase in which, as Lieberman has suggested, Israel would recognize a Palestinian state with temporary borders. Of course, none of this is possible once the UNGA recognizes a Palestinian state with the 1948 ceasefire line as one of its borders with Israel and with Jerusalem as its capital.

Israel has repeatedly said it is willing to start talks with not pre conditions,

Israel is going to forgo all its preconditions?

It did, during the Bill Clinton era with Arafat and Barak. Gave them almost everything they wanted, including most of those that you just listed as "off the table".

Nah, the Palestinian idea of "peace" is the total destruction of the state of Israel. Good luck with that. LOL.

No they didn't

 

[docmauser1]

How about the precondition of having to recognize Israel's right to exist?

If palistanians want to negotiate they should recognize what they're going to negotiate with, of course. They should be resettled, though, for their own good.

 

[irosie91]

from UMAR-tinnie
"Israel has chosen war a long time ago"

Right---Israel chose----so did the Biafran christians---so did the armenian christians----so did the 100 million hindus in the early years of the Moghul empire. For a long time people have CHOSEN to avoid the filth of enslavement to ISLAMIC IMPERIALISM and it has resulted in the genocides of 100s of millions to the delight of umar-tin.
The good news is the filth is swirling down the cosmic sewer-------have fun swirling tinne.

 

[P F Tinmore]

from UMAR-tinnie
"Israel has chosen war a long time ago"

Right---Israel chose----so did the Biafran christians---so did the armenian christians----so did the 100 million hindus in the early years of the Moghul empire. For a long time people have CHOSEN to avoid the filth of enslavement to ISLAMIC IMPERIALISM and it has resulted in the genocides of 100s of millions to the delight of umar-tin.
The good news is the filth is swirling down the cosmic sewer-------have fun swirling tinne.

You forget that Israel started the war with Palestine a hundred years ago.

 

[irosie91]

from UMAR-tinnie
"Israel has chosen war a long time ago"

Right---Israel chose----so did the Biafran christians---so did the armenian christians----so did the 100 million hindus in the early years of the Moghul empire. For a long time people have CHOSEN to avoid the filth of enslavement to ISLAMIC IMPERIALISM and it has resulted in the genocides of 100s of millions to the delight of umar-tin.
The good news is the filth is swirling down the cosmic sewer-------have fun swirling tinne.

You forget that Israel started the war with Palestine a hundred years ago.

LOL tinnie----you are so good at nazi style shit No lie is too idiotic for you. Israel started a "war" with "palestine" 100 years ago? try again---this war dates back about 1400 years when the rapist pig attacked Yathrib and to your delight pillaged murdered and raped his ass off. Then his ass lickers----HOT FOR MORE PILLAGE AND RAPE----rampaged thru north africa and inspired your other hero----MURDERER OF HUNDREDS OF MILLION Genghis Khan------but the good news was that all bloodshed could be avoided simply by agreeing to be enslaved to the filth you so love-----the stink of islamic dhimmia-----aka slave to the ass lickers of the rapist
get used to it umar-tin------the glorious age of islamic rape, pillage and murder-----is coming to a complete end-----think SOUTH SUDAN ------LOL
try not to cry

 

[irosie91]

TO THE MEMORY OF GENERAL GORDON

gordie baby------the pigs are going down

 

[toomuchtime_]

Israel is going to forgo all its preconditions?

Netanyahu has repeatedly said he is willing to restart talks without any pre conditions. Abbas has demanded a end to all building in the West Bank and variously Obama's call for the 1948 ceasefire line to be the West Bank border or for Olment's final offer that Abbas refused to accept to be pre conditions for restarting the talks he had previously walked away from.

But why should any of this interest you, a Hamas supporter, since Hamas opposes all talks with Israel?

Netanyahu has repeatedly said he is willing to restart talks without any pre conditions.

Yeah but he is a lying sack of shit.

What about my list above. How about the precondition of having to recognize Israel's right to exist?

That was not a pre condition. That was the result of the negotiations that led to the Oslo agreements, and in exchange Israel recognized the PA as the legitimate representative of the Palestinian Arabs. No matter how much you may wish he had, Netanyahu has set down no pre conditions for restarting the peace talks Abbas walked away from years ago.

But again, why this sudden interest in peace talks with Israel? Have you really changed your mind about them after arguing for so long there is no value in negotiating with Israel or are you just taking the opportunity to rant some more about Israel?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Netanyahu has repeatedly said he is willing to restart talks without any pre conditions. Abbas has demanded a end to all building in the West Bank and variously Obama's call for the 1948 ceasefire line to be the West Bank border or for Olment's final offer that Abbas refused to accept to be pre conditions for restarting the talks he had previously walked away from.

But why should any of this interest you, a Hamas supporter, since Hamas opposes all talks with Israel?

Netanyahu has repeatedly said he is willing to restart talks without any pre conditions.

Yeah but he is a lying sack of shit.

What about my list above. How about the precondition of having to recognize Israel's right to exist?

That was not a pre condition. That was the result of the negotiations that led to the Oslo agreements, and in exchange Israel recognized the PA as the legitimate representative of the Palestinian Arabs. No matter how much you may wish he had, Netanyahu has set down no pre conditions for restarting the peace talks Abbas walked away from years ago.

But again, why this sudden interest in peace talks with Israel? Have you really changed your mind about them after arguing for so long there is no value in negotiating with Israel or are you just taking the opportunity to rant some more about Israel?

Oslo flopped,