Our Thirty Year Experiment

wihosa

Gold Member
Apr 8, 2008
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Well, it's been thirty years now. Thirty years since "Reaganomics" was begun and what has been the result? For many at this site I suspect that this time frame may exceed their memories (they may not be old enough). Some of us though do remember a time before soaring budget deficits, wild military spending and destructive un-restrained greed.

There was a time when one worker could support a family. Typically mom could stay home to raise the children and nurture productive citizens. Now it takes two or even three incomes just to keep a family in a home.

Middle class families could expect to send their children to college, save for retirement, go to the doctor and even have two weeks of paid vacation. Not any more. Now more and more people are slipping into a "new" class of American citizens, that being the "working class", those who work low paying jobs which provide no benifits and leave people living pay check to pay check. AKA the working poor.

Before "supply siders" began setting national policy America was the greatest producer of finished goods in the world. Now we are the greatest importer of finished goods, sending our money to other countries for the necessities of daily life. We were the greatest crediter nation, now we are the greatest debter nation.

Huge tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations along with massive government spending on the military was suppossed to spur our economy. It did to an extent because the government outlays amounted to a economic "stimulus package".

Unfortunately, the huge tax cuts coupled with foolish reductions on import tariffs were simply an incentive for the capitalists to liquidate assets here in America, pocket the proceeds and then use some of it to re-open the factories they closed in other countries where labor and environmental standards were weak or non-exisitent. It's been great for capitalists, bad for the vast majority of Americans. High taxes on capitalists provide and incentive for profits to be re-invested in the companies thus enlarging and strengthening them, leading to higher employment and wages.

"Trickle-down" theory coupled with the right wing assault on organized labor has served to drive down the cost of labor. Now you may think that you are immune to this lowering of the wage base because you have a college education, but there are people in China and India with the equivalent education who will work for a third what you will. I'm a General Building Contractor and one of the structural engineers I work with was shocked to find out that he had lost a job to a firm in India which engineered an entire house for only $1500.00, far less than the $7600.00 he had bid.

Of course some jobs can't be out sourced, like construction or meat packing. So, for those jobs the capitalists imported labor, all those illegal immigrants the right wing pretends to be so upset about. But of course, we don't have an illegal immigration problem, we have an illegal employment problem. Start rounding up illegal employers, fining or even sending them to jail and over night the illegal immigration problem would go away. As a side benifit we could stop demonizing Americans who "look" foreign.

So, now after this thirty years experiment the results are definitive. Huge federal debt, ever inceasing budget deficits, falling wages, falling rates of home ownership, almost non existent personal savings rates. And some how half of America has been fooled into believeing it is the result of "socialism".

It is important to note that free enterprise and capitlalism are not necessarily the same thing. Remember that a capitalist is one who makes all their money from intrest and dividends, everyone else is labor, regardless of what color your collar is.

It is imperative that we raise the wage base. Falling wages lead to a diminished tax base, the results of which can be seen in our crumbling infrastructure which decreases the chance of economic oportunity.

For almost fifty years after WWII America had rising wages and prosperity for all, then came the "Reagan Revolution" and we can see the results of this Thirty Year Experiment.
 
Hmm...you are concentrating on one page of the multi-volume book entitled "how America ruined themselves".
Expand your mind.
There is a greater story beyond red vs blue.
 
We just did not deregulate and cut taxes enough!
It is the darn Democrats fault!
It would have worked if not for those obstructionist libtards.
 
That's it if we just cut taxes some more then we can have a country where all the proceeds go to a handful of capitalists.

It'll be great!
 
imwhatiseem
What are you talking about? This isn't about Repub vs Dem. This is about capitalists vs Americans.
 
We have not applied Reaganomics to that entire period of time, so you fail on that count immediately. Raising the wage base simply causes inflation. Crumbling infrastructure is the result of governments focusing on building more and bigger public entitlement prorams. Had they focused on things like security and infratstructure, we would not be in this fix. The fastest growing and second largest economyon the worl is China. Are you looking to them for guidance on wages, health care and deficits? Keyesian economics was a total failure, what you are sugsesting is a return to that system. No thank you.
 
So we had a stable and expanding economy for alsmot fifty years and since the "conservative era" started we have had falling wages, soaring deficits, crumbling infrastructure but somehow it was the result of Keynsian economics?

It was Keynsian economixs which built this country into the manufacturing powerhouse it was until Reagan.

The proof is in the pudding!
 
Hmmm...Obama spent more than that on the failed Stimulus Package alone.
 
God almighty, it is both tragic and hilarious when simple minds get together and can't form an intelligent opinion among the lot.

The economic mess we are in goes faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar beyond Reagan or any President for that matter.
This economy is a perfect combination of:
Unbridled Greed
Complacency
Indifference
Carelessness
Cluelessness
Complete disregard for the future by politicians, businesses and even more so average Americans everywhere
Voracious inability of people to be satisfied with what they have
Brain-dead inability to think in a critical manner by a mushroom population of spoiled people living well beyond their means with not an inkling of care of what their actions do to each other.

Shall I go on.
Reaganomics...good God people. :eusa_hand:
 
Us citizen
We're over 12 trillion in debt thanks to huge tax cuts that have left us with a structural debt. Why do you ask?

Bodicca
The stim did not fail if it had we would be in a depression, with a 15 trillion dollar economy less than 800 billion doesn't make that much of a dent.

iamwahtiseem
Well you don't seem able to make a cogent point, so you are incomprehensible.
 
well iamwhatiseem

I'm trying to understand what you think is a solution to our problems, you don't think it's Reaganomics but I don't know what you attribute our problems to. Do you have a solution?
 
Us citizen
We're over 12 trillion in debt thanks to huge tax cuts that have left us with a structural debt. Why do you ask?

Bodicca
The stim did not fail if it had we would be in a depression, with a 15 trillion dollar economy less than 800 billion doesn't make that much of a dent.

iamwahtiseem
Well you don't seem able to make a cogent point, so you are incomprehensible.



No. We're $13T in debt because our irresponsible and self-dealing elected officiala and career bureaucrats spend more money than is collected in tax revenues - and cook the books so that unfunded liabilities continue to pile up and burden future generations.
 
well iamwhatiseem

I'm trying to understand what you think is a solution to our problems, you don't think it's Reaganomics but I don't know what you attribute our problems to. Do you have a solution?



The current situation is the logical result of Big Government Progressivism.
 
Us citizen
We're over 12 trillion in debt thanks to huge tax cuts that have left us with a structural debt. Why do you ask?

Bodicca
The stim did not fail if it had we would be in a depression, with a 15 trillion dollar economy less than 800 billion doesn't make that much of a dent.

iamwahtiseem
Well you don't seem able to make a cogent point, so you are incomprehensible.

Yeah... there ya go.

Wow, another post touting the Obama line of "yeah, it sucks, but it would have sucked so much worse without all I have done" coupled with "the rich just need to pay more taxes"

Brilliant.
 
We have not applied Reaganomics to that entire period of time, so you fail on that count immediately. Raising the wage base simply causes inflation. Crumbling infrastructure is the result of governments focusing on building more and bigger public entitlement prorams. Had they focused on things like security and infratstructure, we would not be in this fix. The fastest growing and second largest economyon the worl is China. Are you looking to them for guidance on wages, health care and deficits? Keyesian economics was a total failure, what you are sugsesting is a return to that system. No thank you.

Today we are experiencing DEFLATION, and yesterday, as a result of Nixon's policy of waging war and not rasing taxes to pay for it 'we' invented the word STAGFLATION.
Social security and medicare are good ideas which do provide necessary benefits for our people. Reagan proved with a smile and a good gift to gab that you can fool some of the people all of the time. Calling government the problem he spent money he didn't have protecting us from "the evil empire" by building more and more weapon systems and attempting to make space a new theater for war.
Red baiting is not new, but the new right, the Reactionary's/neo-conservatives have convinced a new generation of Americans to be scared and hate anything new, different or pragmatic.
To my surprise you, saveliberty, actually pointed out something that the conservative R's should have known but failed to acknowledge or prepare for - our infrastructure.
IMO, Obama's big mistake was appeasing (trying to) the R's, Obama should have insisted on a much larger stimulus and commenced building transportation system right-of-ways for light and heavy rail, connecting inter and intra rail systems running on green energy systems; bulding canals for commerce and recreation and to alleviate future flooding and re-making the electric grid. Ten's of thousands of jobs.
 
boedicca
Last time I checked 13T was "over 12T"

You seem to understand that we have a structural defict but you don't seem to understand that it began when we started cutting taxes for billionaires.
 

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