'Our Story' by Dr. Mustafa Barghouti * NON-VIOLENT movement in Palestine

[Jos]

When Europe gets an enema, it's inserted into Spain

We had one in 1492, it cleaned out a lot of fecal matter

And, look at backward, bankrupt spain, today. Spain has produced not one scientific discovery. Since 1960, Spain has produced only 1 Nobel Prize winner in science, mathematics and economics.

Israel has produced 5 Nobel Prize winners.

Israel has 120 technology companies listed on NASDAQ, second only to the US.

Spain has zero companies listed on NASDAQ.

Spain produces only olive oil.

When Europe gets an enema, it's inserted into spain

Nobel prize is a little badge that jews give to other jews for a feel good and has no real value, Aspergers has on the other hand, a gift that goes on giving and giving generation after generation

"1492, expulsion of the jew, 1493, Spain is finally free"

 

[P F Tinmore]

five countries – Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq – attacked the 600,000 people in the fledgling state of Israel the day after its birth, hoping to kill it in the crib.

False!

Your source is full of crap.

How is this false? those countries did attack the Israelis.

But they did not attack Israel. They engaged Israeli troops inside Palestine.

 

[High_Gravity]

False!

Your source is full of crap.

How is this false? those countries did attack the Israelis.

But they did not attack Israel. They engaged Israeli troops inside Palestine.

 

[Jos]

On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly approved a plan to resolve the Arab-Jewish conflict by partitioning Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab. Each state would comprise three major sections, linked by extraterritorial crossroads; the Arab state would also have an enclave at Jaffa. The Jews would get 56% of the land[14], of which most was in the Negev Desert; their area would contain 499,000 Jews and 438,000 Arabs. The Palestinian Arabs would get 42% of the land, which had a population of 818,000 Palestinian Arabs and 10,000 Jews. In consideration of its religious significance, the Jerusalem area, including Bethlehem, with 100,000 Jews and an equal number of Palestinian Arabs, was to become a Corpus separatum, to be administered by the UN.[15] The Jewish leadership accepted the partition plan, without reservation, as "the indispensable minimum,"[16] glad to gain international recognition but sorry that they did not receive more.[17]

Arguing that the partition plan was unfair to the Arabs with regard to the population balance at that time, the representatives of the Palestinian Arabs and the Arab League firmly opposed the UN action and even rejected its authority to involve itself in the entire matter.[18] They upheld "that the rule of Palestine should revert to its inhabitants, in accordance with the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations."[19][20]

 

[P F Tinmore]

On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly approved a plan to resolve the Arab-Jewish conflict by partitioning Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab. Each state would comprise three major sections, linked by extraterritorial crossroads; the Arab state would also have an enclave at Jaffa. The Jews would get 56% of the land[14], of which most was in the Negev Desert; their area would contain 499,000 Jews and 438,000 Arabs. The Palestinian Arabs would get 42% of the land, which had a population of 818,000 Palestinian Arabs and 10,000 Jews. In consideration of its religious significance, the Jerusalem area, including Bethlehem, with 100,000 Jews and an equal number of Palestinian Arabs, was to become a Corpus separatum, to be administered by the UN.[15] The Jewish leadership accepted the partition plan, without reservation, as "the indispensable minimum,"[16] glad to gain international recognition but sorry that they did not receive more.[17]

Arguing that the partition plan was unfair to the Arabs with regard to the population balance at that time, the representatives of the Palestinian Arabs and the Arab League firmly opposed the UN action and even rejected its authority to involve itself in the entire matter.[18] They upheld "that the rule of Palestine should revert to its inhabitants, in accordance with the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations."[19][20]

The General Assembly sent their plan to the Security Council For implementation.

The Security Council decided to not implement the plan.

Resolution 181 did not happen.

 

[P F Tinmore]

How is this false? those countries did attack the Israelis.

But they did not attack Israel. They engaged Israeli troops inside Palestine.

Your confusion is common and intentional. When the foreigners declared themselves to be a state inside Palestine they had acquired no land and defined no borders.

 

[pgm]

How is this false? those countries did attack the Israelis.

Jordan didn't. It wanted the Arab Partitioned part of the Palestine Mandate. Only at the very end did it even invade Israeli-controlled areas. It had the largest and best trained of the Arab Armies and hardly committed its efforts to the attack.

Syria, Egypt and Lebanon wanted to destroy Israel and take the Palestinian land for themselves. But they were so divided in their goals and efforts that one could hardly call their primary object the destruction of Israel. Unlike Jos, I would say that Syria, Egypt, Lebanon and Iraq attacked Israel (but not really Jordan).

 

[JStone]

False!

Your source is full of crap.

How is this false? those countries did attack the Israelis.

But they did not attack Israel. They engaged Israeli troops inside Palestine.

You lie, Pinocchio.

Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert...

On 15 May, 1948 six Arab armies, those of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Iraq, invaded Israel. They advanced rapidly, threatening to destroy the one-day old State and drive its citizens into the sea. The Israelis resisted and after ten days were able to counter-attack

 

[JStone]

But they did not attack Israel. They engaged Israeli troops inside Palestine.

Your confusion is common and intentional. When the foreigners declared themselves to be a state inside Palestine they had acquired no land and defined no borders.

Er, Arabs, from Arabia, would be the foreigners in Israel. Jews have lived in and ruled in Israel for 3000 years.

Pulitzer Prize-Winning Writer Charles Krauthammer...

Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store.

PBS: Civilization and the Jews

The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to it’s own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in it’s own right; it asserted it’s claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel...
PBS - Heritage

University of Chicago Oriental Institute---Empires in the Fertile Crescent: : Israel, Ancient Assyria, and Anatolia

Visitors will get a rare look at one of the most important geographic regions in the ancient Near East beginning January 29 with the opening of "Empires in the Fertile Crescent: Ancient Assyria, Anatolia and Israel," the newest galleries at the Museum of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago.

The galleries showcase artifacts that illustrate the power of these ancient civilizations, including sculptural representations of tributes demanded by kings of ancient Assyria, and some sources of continual fascination, such as a fragment of the Dead Sea Scrolls--one of the few examples in the United States.

"Visitors begin in Assyria, move across Anatolia and down the Mediterranean coast to the land of ancient Israel. The galleries also trace the conquests of the Assyrian empire across the Middle East and follow their trail to Israel."

The Israelites, who emerged as the dominant people of that region in about 975 B.C. are documented by many objects of daily life, a large stamp engraved with a biblical text and an ossuary (box for bones) inscribed in Hebrew.
Probably the most spectacular portion of the Megiddo gallery, however, is the Megiddo ivories. These exquisitely carved pieces of elephant tusks were inlays in furniture, and a particularly large piece was made into a game board.

Oriental Institute | Museum

Harvard Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel

In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth. In the end, however, Israel was no match for expansionist Assyria. Samaria, the Israelite capital, fell to the Assyrians in 722 B.C.E.

The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum

University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology: Canaan and Ancient Israel

The first major North American exhibition dedicated to the archaeology of ancient Israel and neighboring lands, "Canaan and Ancient Israel" features more than 350 rare artifacts from about 3,000 to 586 B.C.E., excavated by University of Pennsylvania Museum archaeologists in Israel,
Artcom Museums Tour: University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, Philadelphia PA

Yale Law School Faculty Scholarship Series: Ancient Land Law in Israel, Mesopotamia, Egypt

This Article provides an overview of the land regimes that the peoples of Mesopotamia, Egypt, and Israel created by law and custom between 3000 B.C. and 500 B.C

A look at land regimes in the earliest periods of human history can illuminate debate over the extent to which human institutions can be expected to vary from time to time and place to place.
"Ancient Land Law: Mesopotamia, Egypt, Israel" by Robert C. Ellickson and Charles DiA. Thorland

Yale University Press: Education in Ancient Israel

In this groundbreaking new book, distinguished biblical scholar James L. Crenshaw investigates both the pragmatic hows and the philosophical whys of education in ancient Israel and its surroundings. Asking questions as basic as "Who were the teachers and students and from what segment of Israelite society did they come?" and "How did instructors interest young people in the things they had to say?" Crenshaw explores the institutions and practices of education in ancient Israel. The results are often surprising and more complicated than one would expect.

Education in Ancient Israel - Crenshaw, James L - Yale University Press

Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel

In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.
The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press

Cambridge University Press: The World of Ancient Israel
The Bodies of God and the World of Ancient Israel - Academic and Professional Books - Cambridge University Press

Cambridge University Press: Wisdom in Ancient Israel
Wisdom in Ancient Israel - Academic and Professional Books - Cambridge University Press

PBS Nova...

In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele. Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.

The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago

Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible's Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[P F Tinmore]

Your confusion is common and intentional. When the foreigners declared themselves to be a state inside Palestine they had acquired no land and defined no borders.

Er, Arabs, from Arabia, would be the foreigners in Israel. Jews have lived in and ruled in Israel for 3000 years.

Er, of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.

They were the foreigners.

 

[JStone]

Your confusion is common and intentional. When the foreigners declared themselves to be a state inside Palestine they had acquired no land and defined no borders.

Er, Arabs, from Arabia, would be the foreigners in Israel. Jews have lived in and ruled in Israel for 3000 years.

Er, of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.

They were the foreigners.

Er, Israel is the Jewish homeland. Arabia is the Palestinian homeland.

 

[pgm]

How can some place be a peoples' homeland if they've never been there?

 

[JStone]

How can some place be a peoples' homeland if they've never been there?

Have mommy or daddy open a history book for you, dink.

Pulitzer Prize-Winning Writer Charles Krauthammer...

Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store.

PBS: Civilization and the Jews

The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to it’s own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in it’s own right; it asserted it’s claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel...
PBS - Heritage

University of Chicago Oriental Institute---Empires in the Fertile Crescent: : Israel, Ancient Assyria, and Anatolia

Visitors will get a rare look at one of the most important geographic regions in the ancient Near East beginning January 29 with the opening of "Empires in the Fertile Crescent: Ancient Assyria, Anatolia and Israel," the newest galleries at the Museum of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago.

The galleries showcase artifacts that illustrate the power of these ancient civilizations, including sculptural representations of tributes demanded by kings of ancient Assyria, and some sources of continual fascination, such as a fragment of the Dead Sea Scrolls--one of the few examples in the United States.

"Visitors begin in Assyria, move across Anatolia and down the Mediterranean coast to the land of ancient Israel. The galleries also trace the conquests of the Assyrian empire across the Middle East and follow their trail to Israel."

The Israelites, who emerged as the dominant people of that region in about 975 B.C. are documented by many objects of daily life, a large stamp engraved with a biblical text and an ossuary (box for bones) inscribed in Hebrew.
Probably the most spectacular portion of the Megiddo gallery, however, is the Megiddo ivories. These exquisitely carved pieces of elephant tusks were inlays in furniture, and a particularly large piece was made into a game board.

Oriental Institute | Museum

Harvard Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel

In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth. In the end, however, Israel was no match for expansionist Assyria. Samaria, the Israelite capital, fell to the Assyrians in 722 B.C.E.

The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum

University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology: Canaan and Ancient Israel

The first major North American exhibition dedicated to the archaeology of ancient Israel and neighboring lands, "Canaan and Ancient Israel" features more than 350 rare artifacts from about 3,000 to 586 B.C.E., excavated by University of Pennsylvania Museum archaeologists in Israel,
Artcom Museums Tour: University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, Philadelphia PA

Yale Law School Faculty Scholarship Series: Ancient Land Law in Israel, Mesopotamia, Egypt

This Article provides an overview of the land regimes that the peoples of Mesopotamia, Egypt, and Israel created by law and custom between 3000 B.C. and 500 B.C

A look at land regimes in the earliest periods of human history can illuminate debate over the extent to which human institutions can be expected to vary from time to time and place to place.
"Ancient Land Law: Mesopotamia, Egypt, Israel" by Robert C. Ellickson and Charles DiA. Thorland

Yale University Press: Education in Ancient Israel

In this groundbreaking new book, distinguished biblical scholar James L. Crenshaw investigates both the pragmatic hows and the philosophical whys of education in ancient Israel and its surroundings. Asking questions as basic as "Who were the teachers and students and from what segment of Israelite society did they come?" and "How did instructors interest young people in the things they had to say?" Crenshaw explores the institutions and practices of education in ancient Israel. The results are often surprising and more complicated than one would expect.

Education in Ancient Israel - Crenshaw, James L - Yale University Press

Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel

In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.
The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press

Cambridge University Press: The World of Ancient Israel
The Bodies of God and the World of Ancient Israel - Academic and Professional Books - Cambridge University Press

Cambridge University Press: Wisdom in Ancient Israel
Wisdom in Ancient Israel - Academic and Professional Books - Cambridge University Press

PBS Nova...

In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele. Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.

The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago

Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible's Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[pgm]

I was referring to you saying the Palestinian homeland was Arabia.

 

[JStone]

I was referring to you saying the Palestinian homeland was Arabia.

Read, learn, dink.

Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...

The claims that modern Palestinians are descended from the ancient Jebusites are madewithout any supporting evidence. Historians and archaeologists have generally concluded that most, if not all, modern Palestinians are probably more closely related to the Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and other countries than they are to the ancient Jebusites, Canaanites or Philistines.

 

[pgm]

Anyway, I'm going to attempt to divert this back to the original point of this thread. We can argue about the existence of Palestine in the other thread (in the Iran forum).

The way I see it, before 1948, you had two peoples sharing one land. Now you have the same land and same people, but the vast majority of one land is controlled by one people and the other people are kept on a much smaller and shrinking section of land. [There's at least one thing that should be mentioned, Palestinians in Israel proper (not the West Bank) are treated better than they're treated anywhere else.]

I see four possible solutions.
1) The status quo. Israeli settlements keep expanding and the Palestinian population keeps growing. At some point, Palestinian Arabs will outnumber the Jews. If we don't have apartheid now, we'll have it then.
2) An intermixed one-state solution. Allow the Palestinians to move throughout Israel freely. This would be the death of a Jewish state.
3) A Jewish one-state solution. Expel all the remaining Arabs from the West Bank into the countries that don't want them. Don't allow people to live in the land of their fathers.
4) A two-state solution. One sovereign Jewish state and one sovereign Palestinian Arab state.

I think #4 best combines morality and political realities.

 

[JStone]

Anyway, I'm going to attempt to divert this back to the original point of this thread. We can argue about the existence of Palestine in the other thread (in the Iran forum).

The way I see it, before 1948, you had two peoples sharing one land. Now you have the same land and same people, but the vast majority of one land is controlled by one people and the other people are kept on a much smaller and shrinking section of land. [There's at least one thing that should be mentioned, Palestinians in Israel proper (not the West Bank) are treated better than they're treated anywhere else.]

I see four possible solutions.
1) The status quo. Israeli settlements keep expanding and the Palestinian population keeps growing. At some point, Palestinian Arabs will outnumber the Jews. If we don't have apartheid now, we'll have it then.
2) An intermixed one-state solution. Allow the Palestinians to move throughout Israel freely. This would be the death of a Jewish state.
3) A Jewish one-state solution. Expel all the remaining Arabs from the West Bank into the countries that don't want them. Don't allow people to live in the land of their fathers.
4) A two-state solution. One sovereign Jewish state and one sovereign Palestinian Arab state.

I think #4 best combines morality and political realities.

Jews have sovereignty over Israel dating back 3000 years to King David. Arabs are illegal aliens from Arabia.

Pulitzer Prize-Winning Writer Charles Krauthammer...

Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store.

Tel Dan Stele Verifying King David Dynasty 3000 years ago
The Tel Dan Stela and the Kings of Aram and Israel

Judaea Capta Coins Minted By Romans against Jews 2000 years ago
Judaea Capta coinage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jewish Dead Sea Scrolls 2000 years old.
Dead Sea Scrolls - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel

In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.
The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press

 

[pgm]

So, from 1-4, which would you pick?

 

[JStone]

So, from 1-4, which would you pick?

Israel is a sovereign Jewish state. Arabs are illegal aliens who must go back to Arabia where they came from.

 

[pgm]

So, that's #3?