Our immigration laws protect illegal aliens

[LilOlLady]

]OUR IMMIGRATION LAWS PROTECT ILLEGAL ALIENS
from U.S. citizens but don’t not protect U.S. citizens from Illegal Aliens.

Illegal Aliens kill 12 Americans and rape 8 children every day, plus the out of control Latino gangs the smuggle and deal drugs and commit other crimes and are the most dangerous of all gangs in this country. Illegal aliens have killed more Americans than the Iraq war.

Illegal Aliens take jobs and lower wages of Americans that take away their American dreams and of their children. American workers are replaced with Illegal Aliens because business prefer them because they are cheap labor and they can abuse them and they cannot complain.
We can stop those crossing the border for their papers but when they get passed border patrols agents our government makes it a crime to stop anyone suspected of being in the country illegally and ask them for their papers, but a US citizens can be stopped and ask for their papers.

A man recently on C-Span about race relations complained about being racially profiled. He had been working here for 12 years and could not speak English but keep telling the office he was a U.S. citizen but could not produce papers. He was stopped for running a red light. Duh? Reasonable suspicion.

Our immigration law do not target Illegal Aliens but target U.S. citizens.

 

[Duped]

50 looks, and no responses - what is wrong with these people? I love you already, and I just got here. I live in a illegal alien protection zone - Maryland. There should be a bounty on them. They love our milk, and honey but hate us, and our language. They have ruined
the construction buisness driving down the wages, and doing crappy work. The Republicans, and demorcrats love cheap labor - the Demacrats love the constituency. Neither put the country first. A country that doesn't uphold it's laws is doomed- God help us!

 

[Sweet Willy]

The lil ol lady is deranged.

The 4th amendment protects me and every American from unreasonable searches. There is no such protection for illegals. An American can not be legally forced to produce ID. The governing case law is Hiibel. Illegals have no such protection. However, you don't get to toss me and my rights under the bus because you're a bitter old lady who has some axe to grind with illegals. We don't let you profile people and ask for ID because it would mean that x number of Americans would have to show ID, adverse to the 4th amendment. We would even end up deporting some Americans who might not be able to produce ID. You see, there is no requirement for an American to even possess ID. It's a fundamnetal little thing we like to call "freedom". Crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor. We (sane Americans) are not going to be sacrificing the 4th amendment anytime soon in order to catch a bunch of misdemeanors.

 

[Nova78]

50 looks, and no responses - what is wrong with these people? I love you already, and I just got here. I live in a illegal alien protection zone - Maryland. There should be a bounty on them. They love our milk, and honey but hate us, and our language. They have ruined
the construction buisness driving down the wages, and doing crappy work. The Republicans, and demorcrats love cheap labor - the Demacrats love the constituency. Neither put the country first. A country that doesn't uphold it's laws is doomed- God help us!

The idiots in power have destroyed this Country, just a matter of time before we have a civil war , the writing is on the wall. Way to many social and financial problems for most to bear. The melting pot has became a big shit sandwich.

 

[Duped]

50 looks, and no responses - what is wrong with these people? I love you already, and I just got here. I live in a illegal alien protection zone - Maryland. There should be a bounty on them. They love our milk, and honey but hate us, and our language. They have ruined
the construction buisness driving down the wages, and doing crappy work. The Republicans, and demorcrats love cheap labor - the Demacrats love the constituency. Neither put the country first. A country that doesn't uphold it's laws is doomed- God help us!

The idiots in power have destroyed this Country, just a matter of time before we have a civil war , the writing is on the wall. Way to many social and financial problems for most to bear. The melting pot has became a big shit sandwich.

They don't just cross the border - they invade our country and compete with citizens - they come to stay. They burden our health care system, and schools. Every doller they make is illicit gain. When caught, everything they own should be confiscated, they should do jail time, and be deported!
You are wrong about the ID- I know there are states that do require you to show it. US citizens are required to sow ID in many instances. Sounds like you are one of these liberals who want to give our presious country away -after so many of us have sacrifised life, and limb to establish, and keep it. You are discusting!

 

[Sweet Willy]

There is no law in anywhere in any state that requires anyone to even have an ID, much less required to show something that you aren't even required to have. This doesn't take a genius to understand that you can not be required to show something that you are not even required to possess in the first place.

The law of the land is the 4th amendment, the case law is Hiibel, pertaining to how and when you are required to identify yourself. You are only required to state your name to authorities when they can articulate reasonable suspicion of a crime. There must first be articulate, reasonable suspicion of a crime before anyone is even required to state their name.

This is part of the bed rock of our governing principles. No one has to prove they are innocent of anything. The government has to prove you guilty. It's called FREEDOM and it often does take more than your average bumpkin to understand how it is insured. If we allow the principles to be changed on the notion of dealing with illegals, then the whole game, the entire idea of American liberty as we know it changes. We believe in the presumption of innocence. We require reasonable suspicion to even ask questions and solid proof to go further. We don;t operate on the baloney of having cops walking around all willy nilly, with the power to make demands, the power to make you prove your innocence, before any notion of guilt has even been presented. If you look a certain way we can start demanding proof from you?

You people are DANGEROUS to me, my country and my freedom. You can hate Hispanics all you want but when you start screwing with my rights and my liberty, to satisfy your gusto for dinging people for a misdemeanor....then you have a fight with me.

Crossing the border illegal is a misdemeanor. Why don't you assholes focus on that first. If you can get that changed from what it has always been, then you can talk realistically about this other stuff. But you want to mess with Constitutional liberty over a bunch of misdemeanor infractions?

Never going to happen. Tell your neighbors to stop hiring illegals, boycott the manufacturers and meat packers and chicken processors that use them. THAT works without touching my rights. Have at it.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

We can stop those crossing the border for their papers but when they get passed border patrols agents our government makes it a crime to stop anyone suspected of being in the country illegally and ask them for their papers, but a US citizens can be stopped and ask for their papers.

No, it is un-Constitutional to stop someone and compel him to provide ID absent probable cause, ‘looking illegal’ is not probable cause.

The 4th amendment protects me and every American from unreasonable searches. There is no such protection for illegals.

Illegal aliens are entitled to due process, as held by the Court in Plyler v. Doe:

“Aliens, even aliens whose presence in this country is unlawful, have long been recognized as ‘persons’ guaranteed due process of law by the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments.”

Since illegal aliens have the right to habeas, therefore, any unwarranted search is subject to challenge.

However, you don't get to toss me and my rights under the bus because you're a bitter old lady who has some axe to grind with illegals. We don't let you profile people and ask for ID because it would mean that x number of Americans would have to show ID, adverse to the 4th amendment. We would even end up deporting some Americans who might not be able to produce ID. You see, there is no requirement for an American to even possess ID. It's a fundamnetal little thing we like to call "freedom". Crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor. We (sane Americans) are not going to be sacrificing the 4th amendment anytime soon in order to catch a bunch of misdemeanors.

For the most part correct, whether illegal alien or citizen, the 4th Amendment prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures without a warrant or probable cause. Even in a Terry Stop, where PC isn’t required, law enforcement must have at least a reasonable suspicion of possible criminal activity, which would be absent when randomly stopping people searching for ‘llegals.’

 

[Duped]

The lil ol lady is deranged.

The 4th amendment protects me and every American from unreasonable searches. There is no such protection for illegals. An American can not be legally forced to produce ID. The governing case law is Hiibel. Illegals have no such protection. However, you don't get to toss me and my rights under the bus because you're a bitter old lady who has some axe to grind with illegals. We don't let you profile people and ask for ID because it would mean that x number of Americans would have to show ID, adverse to the 4th amendment. We would even end up deporting some Americans who might not be able to produce ID. You see, there is no requirement for an American to even possess ID. It's a fundamnetal little thing we like to call "freedom". Crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor. We (sane Americans) are not going to be sacrificing the 4th amendment anytime soon in order to catch a bunch of misdemeanors.

I don't hate hispanics; I was married to one, andI still love her! I hate invaders who have no regard for our laws ; that sneak into our country, and set up shop, compete against our citizens utilizing an underground economy. If they stole food off your table you would have a different oppinion.
In the forfeiture laws, you are guilty until proven innocent!
Home Depot ask for a drivers license when you take an item back!
Do you beleive in enforcing our laws? It is the flip side of protecting our rights!
I don't want to see our right eroded under any guise!

 

[Sweet Willy]

The lil ol lady is deranged.

The 4th amendment protects me and every American from unreasonable searches. There is no such protection for illegals. An American can not be legally forced to produce ID. The governing case law is Hiibel. Illegals have no such protection. However, you don't get to toss me and my rights under the bus because you're a bitter old lady who has some axe to grind with illegals. We don't let you profile people and ask for ID because it would mean that x number of Americans would have to show ID, adverse to the 4th amendment. We would even end up deporting some Americans who might not be able to produce ID. You see, there is no requirement for an American to even possess ID. It's a fundamnetal little thing we like to call "freedom". Crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor. We (sane Americans) are not going to be sacrificing the 4th amendment anytime soon in order to catch a bunch of misdemeanors.

I don't hate hispanics; I was married to one, andI still love her! I hate invaders who have no regard for our laws ; that sneak into our country, and set up shop, compete against our citizens utilizing an underground economy. If they stole food off your table you would have a different oppinion.
In the forfeiture laws, you are guilty until proven innocent!
Home Depot ask for a drivers license when you take an item back!
Do you beleive in enforcing our laws? It is the flip side of protecting our rights!
I don't want to see our right eroded under any guise!

Home Depot? You are comparing the Home Depot return policy to the Constitution of the United States of America? Brilliant.

Can the hyperbole. I don't have to carry an ID. There is no law anywhere in the US that requires me to even have an ID, much less show it to anyone. There is a much better way, an easier way, to deal with illegals. You just take their jobs. It's so simple it hurts some folks brains, evidently.

The 4th amendment protects me and every American from unreasonable searches. There is no such protection for illegals.

Illegal aliens are entitled to due process, as held by the Court in Plyler v. Doe:

“Aliens, even aliens whose presence in this country is unlawful, have long been recognized as ‘persons’ guaranteed due process of law by the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments.”

Since illegal aliens have the right to habeas, therefore, any unwarranted search is subject to challenge.

Yes, I understand. What I said was in response to the Lil ol' Lady's claims that Americans are required to show ID but we have some secret, special law that says illegals in specific do not show ID.... of course the idea being that there is a conspiracy to afford illegals more rights, privileges and freedom than Americans... I was just saying that no such thing exist...

We have NO LAWS that require ANYONE to produce ID by random request. We presume innocence here as a bed rock principle.

 

[Duped]

The lil ol lady is deranged.

The 4th amendment protects me and every American from unreasonable searches. There is no such protection for illegals. An American can not be legally forced to produce ID. The governing case law is Hiibel. Illegals have no such protection. However, you don't get to toss me and my rights under the bus because you're a bitter old lady who has some axe to grind with illegals. We don't let you profile people and ask for ID because it would mean that x number of Americans would have to show ID, adverse to the 4th amendment. We would even end up deporting some Americans who might not be able to produce ID. You see, there is no requirement for an American to even possess ID. It's a fundamnetal little thing we like to call "freedom". Crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor. We (sane Americans) are not going to be sacrificing the 4th amendment anytime soon in order to catch a bunch of misdemeanors.

I don't hate hispanics; I was married to one, andI still love her! I hate invaders who have no regard for our laws ; that sneak into our country, and set up shop, compete against our citizens utilizing an underground economy. If they stole food off your table you would have a different oppinion.
In the forfeiture laws, you are guilty until proven innocent!
Home Depot ask for a drivers license when you take an item back!
Do you beleive in enforcing our laws? It is the flip side of protecting our rights!
I don't want to see our right eroded under any guise!

Home Depot? You are comparing the Home Depot return policy to the Constitution of the United States of America? Brilliant.

Can the hyperbole. I don't have to carry an ID. There is no law anywhere in the US that requires me to even have an ID, much less show it to anyone. There is a much better way, an easier way, to deal with illegals. You just take their jobs. It's so simple it hurts some folks brains, evidently.

The 4th amendment protects me and every American from unreasonable searches. There is no such protection for illegals.

Illegal aliens are entitled to due process, as held by the Court in Plyler v. Doe:

“Aliens, even aliens whose presence in this country is unlawful, have long been recognized as ‘persons’ guaranteed due process of law by the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments.”

Since illegal aliens have the right to habeas, therefore, any unwarranted search is subject to challenge.

Yes, I understand. What I said was in response to the Lil ol' Lady's claims that Americans are required to show ID but we have some secret, special law that says illegals in specific do not show ID.... of course the idea being that there is a conspiracy to afford illegals more rights, privileges and freedom than Americans... I was just saying that no such thing exist...

We have NO LAWS that require ANYONE to produce ID by random request. We presume innocence here as a bed rock principle.

Not with forfeiture!
My point is that you need an ID for many things. It just seems that liberals are so adamant
about letting anyone come here and stay - they want to make it as easy as can be. I honestly beleive they wan't to collapse are economy - they hate capitalism.
I would like to see the gov. do something effective - I'm tired of the rhetoric from both sides. Just inforce the law!

 

[tigerbob]

The lil ol lady is deranged.

The 4th amendment protects me and every American from unreasonable searches. There is no such protection for illegals. An American can not be legally forced to produce ID. The governing case law is Hiibel. Illegals have no such protection. However, you don't get to toss me and my rights under the bus because you're a bitter old lady who has some axe to grind with illegals. We don't let you profile people and ask for ID because it would mean that x number of Americans would have to show ID, adverse to the 4th amendment. We would even end up deporting some Americans who might not be able to produce ID. You see, there is no requirement for an American to even possess ID. It's a fundamnetal little thing we like to call "freedom". Crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor. We (sane Americans) are not going to be sacrificing the 4th amendment anytime soon in order to catch a bunch of misdemeanors.

Legal aliens can be forced to produce ID. In fact, they are required to carry it with them at all times and produce it upon request.

I have often wondered why, if a legal alien is supposed to be afforded the protection of the law, this particular law (which so many Americans seem to think is so important) is so blithely set aside.

If a legal alien (based on, let's say, an apparent foreign accent) is asked to produced the ID that he or she is required by law to carry, is this still profiling?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Legal aliens can be forced to produce ID. In fact, they are required to carry it with them at all times and produce it upon request.

Again, no person – regardless his status – can be compelled to provide identification absent probable cause or reasonable suspicion.

If a legal alien (based on, let's say, an apparent foreign accent) is asked to produced the ID that he or she is required by law to carry, is this still profiling?

If by ‘profiling’ one means an illegal search, yes; having a ‘foreign accent’ is neither probable cause nor reasonable suspicion. There are natural born American citizens who have accents, citizens born in Puerto Rico, for example. And many naturalized citizens have accents.

Aliens also receive treatment very similar to the treatment that U.S. citizens receive in the context of the judicial system. For instance, the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the United States Constitution apply to aliens residing within the United States. As such, the courts guarantee aliens the right to due process of law and equal protection of the laws. Courts have generally construed the Fourth Amendment as applicable to aliens as well. The Fourth Amendment prohibits the government from conducting unreasonable searches and seizures.

Alien | LII / Legal Information Institute

 

[tigerbob]

Legal aliens can be forced to produce ID. In fact, they are required to carry it with them at all times and produce it upon request.

Again, no person – regardless his status – can be compelled to provide identification absent probable cause or reasonable suspicion.

If a legal alien (based on, let's say, an apparent foreign accent) is asked to produced the ID that he or she is required by law to carry, is this still profiling?

If by ‘profiling’ one means an illegal search, yes; having a ‘foreign accent’ is neither probable cause nor reasonable suspicion. There are natural born American citizens who have accents, citizens born in Puerto Rico, for example. And many naturalized citizens have accents.

Aliens also receive treatment very similar to the treatment that U.S. citizens receive in the context of the judicial system. For instance, the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the United States Constitution apply to aliens residing within the United States. As such, the courts guarantee aliens the right to due process of law and equal protection of the laws. Courts have generally construed the Fourth Amendment as applicable to aliens as well. The Fourth Amendment prohibits the government from conducting unreasonable searches and seizures.

Alien | LII / Legal Information Institute

Probable cause is a wonderfully elastic term isn't it?

My question therefore remains: Why are legal aliens required to carry their Resident Alien card at all times (it is, I believe, a misdemeanor)? Why not just regular state ID?

The only logical explanation IMO would seem to be that they are required to be able to provide proof that they are in the country legally. Maybe that's too obvious though. These things are never quite as cut and dried as they seem.

Interesting info, BTW. Thanks.

 

[Sweet Willy]

I don't hate hispanics; I was married to one, andI still love her! I hate invaders who have no regard for our laws ; that sneak into our country, and set up shop, compete against our citizens utilizing an underground economy. If they stole food off your table you would have a different oppinion.
In the forfeiture laws, you are guilty until proven innocent!
Home Depot ask for a drivers license when you take an item back!
Do you beleive in enforcing our laws? It is the flip side of protecting our rights!
I don't want to see our right eroded under any guise!

Home Depot? You are comparing the Home Depot return policy to the Constitution of the United States of America? Brilliant.

Can the hyperbole. I don't have to carry an ID. There is no law anywhere in the US that requires me to even have an ID, much less show it to anyone. There is a much better way, an easier way, to deal with illegals. You just take their jobs. It's so simple it hurts some folks brains, evidently.

Illegal aliens are entitled to due process, as held by the Court in Plyler v. Doe:

“Aliens, even aliens whose presence in this country is unlawful, have long been recognized as ‘persons’ guaranteed due process of law by the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments.”

Since illegal aliens have the right to habeas, therefore, any unwarranted search is subject to challenge.

Yes, I understand. What I said was in response to the Lil ol' Lady's claims that Americans are required to show ID but we have some secret, special law that says illegals in specific do not show ID.... of course the idea being that there is a conspiracy to afford illegals more rights, privileges and freedom than Americans... I was just saying that no such thing exist...

We have NO LAWS that require ANYONE to produce ID by random request. We presume innocence here as a bed rock principle.

Not with forfeiture!
My point is that you need an ID for many things. It just seems that liberals are so adamant
about letting anyone come here and stay - they want to make it as easy as can be. I honestly beleive they wan't to collapse are economy - they hate capitalism.
I would like to see the gov. do something effective - I'm tired of the rhetoric from both sides. Just inforce the law!

Who is contending anything about forfeiture? You continue to bring these straw men to the conversation.

No one has to even possess an ID, much less produce it when asked. At the VERY MOST you have to state your name. That's the law. Has nothing to do with illegals, it's about the bed rock foundation of our country. It is something called freedom. You don't solve problems by giving my rights away, especially when the solution is right in front of your face: FINE THE EMPLOYERS, ARREST REPEAT OFFENDERS. Take the jobs and this all goes away. There is no need for you guys to get your fascist hard on going over this. Americans do not and will not be forced to carry papers around. It's completely against what we were built upon.

If you want to drive... you need a license. You want to have a bank account, you need and ID. If you want lots of PRIVATE things and PRIVILEGES you need ID. What you do not need under any circumstances is an ID to merely exist. The thought is repulsive to anyone who recognizes FREEDOM. It is purely astonishing that the "individual liberty" crowd is ready to make everyone carry papers just to exist.

Tell you what, how about we make everyone acquire and carry papers for their weapons? You be ok with that? Maybe we'll frame that one around the "dangerous" illegals. That'll be OK right?

No one in the US is required to prove who they are to anyone until there is reasonable suspicion of a crime. This is a bedrock principle that I AM FREE. I do not answer to anyone for merely existing. You don't get to question me and require me to answer just because you are curious or paranoid or racist or whatever....those are your problems. You don't get to make everyone satisfy YOU, at their inconvenience.

And this is all over MISDEMEANORS. It's not even an actual CRIME to cross illegally.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Legal aliens can be forced to produce ID. In fact, they are required to carry it with them at all times and produce it upon request.

Again, no person – regardless his status – can be compelled to provide identification absent probable cause or reasonable suspicion.



If by ‘profiling’ one means an illegal search, yes; having a ‘foreign accent’ is neither probable cause nor reasonable suspicion. There are natural born American citizens who have accents, citizens born in Puerto Rico, for example. And many naturalized citizens have accents.

Aliens also receive treatment very similar to the treatment that U.S. citizens receive in the context of the judicial system. For instance, the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the United States Constitution apply to aliens residing within the United States. As such, the courts guarantee aliens the right to due process of law and equal protection of the laws. Courts have generally construed the Fourth Amendment as applicable to aliens as well. The Fourth Amendment prohibits the government from conducting unreasonable searches and seizures.

Alien | LII / Legal Information Institute

Probable cause is a wonderfully elastic term isn't it?

My question therefore remains: Why are legal aliens required to carry their Resident Alien card at all times (it is, I believe, a misdemeanor)? Why not just regular state ID?

The only logical explanation IMO would seem to be that they are required to be able to provide proof that they are in the country legally. Maybe that's too obvious though. These things are never quite as cut and dried as they seem.

Interesting info, BTW. Thanks.

It's not even probable cause needed to ask for ID. It is "reasonable suspicion", which is less than probable cause.

Non citizens may well be required to have an ID on them, but the problem is, how do you go about enforcing people to produce this ID without stepping on citizens rights who DO NOT have to carry ID or produce it? So... what is the procedure for when a guy maybe looks a certain way, so the town cop now has a state mandate to check his status, but the guy was born in East LA and doesn't have a green card AND he has no license or ID, which is perfectly legal as an American citizen?

Just isn't anyway around the situation without stepping all over the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. There are multiple adverse effects on the right to freedom of travel and the right against illegal searches.

Fact is, none of this is needed if we had the balls to go after the corporations and millionaires that hire these people. But as always, it is nearly impossible to do anything meaningful against people who can afford large campaign contributions.

 

[tigerbob]

Again, no person – regardless his status – can be compelled to provide identification absent probable cause or reasonable suspicion.



If by ‘profiling’ one means an illegal search, yes; having a ‘foreign accent’ is neither probable cause nor reasonable suspicion. There are natural born American citizens who have accents, citizens born in Puerto Rico, for example. And many naturalized citizens have accents.

Probable cause is a wonderfully elastic term isn't it?

My question therefore remains: Why are legal aliens required to carry their Resident Alien card at all times (it is, I believe, a misdemeanor)? Why not just regular state ID?

The only logical explanation IMO would seem to be that they are required to be able to provide proof that they are in the country legally. Maybe that's too obvious though. These things are never quite as cut and dried as they seem.

Interesting info, BTW. Thanks.

It's not even probable cause needed to ask for ID. It is "reasonable suspicion", which is less than probable cause.

Non citizens may well be required to have an ID on them, but the problem is, how do you go about enforcing people to produce this ID without stepping on citizens rights who DO NOT have to carry ID or produce it? So... what is the procedure for when a guy maybe looks a certain way, so the town cop now has a state mandate to check his status, but the guy was born in East LA and doesn't have a green card AND he has no license or ID, which is perfectly legal as an American citizen?

Just isn't anyway around the situation without stepping all over the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. There are multiple adverse effects on the right to freedom of travel and the right against illegal searches.

Fact is, none of this is needed if we had the balls to go after the corporations and millionaires that hire these people. But as always, it is nearly impossible to do anything meaningful against people who can afford large campaign contributions.

I agree broadly speaking, though I don't think that going after the corporations solves the issue. It helps, but it's not the be all and end all.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Probable cause is a wonderfully elastic term isn't it?

My question therefore remains: Why are legal aliens required to carry their Resident Alien card at all times (it is, I believe, a misdemeanor)? Why not just regular state ID?

The only logical explanation IMO would seem to be that they are required to be able to provide proof that they are in the country legally. Maybe that's too obvious though. These things are never quite as cut and dried as they seem.

Interesting info, BTW. Thanks.

It's not even probable cause needed to ask for ID. It is "reasonable suspicion", which is less than probable cause.

Non citizens may well be required to have an ID on them, but the problem is, how do you go about enforcing people to produce this ID without stepping on citizens rights who DO NOT have to carry ID or produce it? So... what is the procedure for when a guy maybe looks a certain way, so the town cop now has a state mandate to check his status, but the guy was born in East LA and doesn't have a green card AND he has no license or ID, which is perfectly legal as an American citizen?

Just isn't anyway around the situation without stepping all over the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. There are multiple adverse effects on the right to freedom of travel and the right against illegal searches.

Fact is, none of this is needed if we had the balls to go after the corporations and millionaires that hire these people. But as always, it is nearly impossible to do anything meaningful against people who can afford large campaign contributions.

I agree broadly speaking, though I don't think that going after the corporations solves the issue. It helps, but it's not the be all and end all.

Going after the jobs is the only reasonable starting point. No, it will not rid us of every single illegal but it will put a giant dent in the issue AND it cost us next to nothing, compared to all these other ideas of thousands of agents, fences and arrest, detainment, processing and transport of millions of people. This notion that we can deport millions of people is just absurd. I have laid out the scenario before where it took the Germans 7 years to slaughter a few million people, assembly line style, with German efficiency. These folks that think we can root out millions of people, scattered across the country and deport them in THEIR LIFETIME, are not THINKING even vaguely about the matter. It took these people 30 years to get here in what has been described as a "flood" and a "wave" of people, day in, day out, for all that time. It is completely unreasonable to think we can use force, one by one, to get them out in even TWICE the time it took them to get here willingly. It would take 40+ years to do it, even if we did have the kind of money it would take to track them down while, at the same time, accomplishing 100% border security (which is IMPOSSIBLE anyway) The ONLY reasonable option is self deportation. And that happens when we TAKE THE JOBS. And to take the jobs, it only requires that we go after a relative handful of owners and CEOs of large construction, manufacturing, meat packing and assembly companies. Lock up a few millionaires and the rest would demand that every single illegal be terminated immediately and they are 100% legal to do it, no legal questions asked, no constitutional Tom Foolery.

To continue to spend billions of dollars going after illegals, one by one in the streets and chasing them across the God forsaken desert in the middle of the night while we have yet to stop our own American business owners from baiting them here with jobs IS INSANITY. We will never toss them back across the fence as fast they will beat us back across so long as our fellow countrymen are offering them jobs to feed their hungry children. This isn't rocket science. It's human nature for people to take risk to survive and thrive and it's capitalist nature to take advantage of them for cheap labor. That's 90% of the whole thing right there. The other 10% is drugs and thugs and such.... we can afford to use enforcement on those few, but the mass of these people come here at the request of our own commercial and industrial business who break the law and hire them for cheap labor.

 

[techieny]

I live in Arizona and the level of crime from illegals and the cartels is off the chart!!!

 

[Sweet Willy]

I live in Arizona and the level of crime from illegals and the cartels is off the chart!!!

No, it's not.

 

[Duped]

Exigency trumps probable cause.
It was said that innocent until proven guilty is our bedrock principle - not with forfeiture laws! You are guilty until you prove your innocence!
Inforce the law at the border, in the work place - wherever! If the US would do that there would be alot less conversation about immigration - which amounts to squat!