Our founding fathers were not conservative

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Agit8r, Dec 11, 2010.

  1. Agit8r
    Offline

    Agit8r VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    302
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +303 / 0 / -0
    there, I said it. Feel free to prove me wrong with empirical fact. go on :eusa_eh:
    • Like Like x 4
  2. westwall
    Offline

    westwall USMB Mod Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    Messages:
    22,585
    Likes Received:
    3,432
    Trophy Points:
    88
    Location:
    Nevada
    Ratings:
    +3,436 / 1 / -0
    That's true. They were however, not statists either.
  3. Agit8r
    Offline

    Agit8r VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    302
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +303 / 0 / -0
    that is true. they were not
  4. AllieBaba
    Offline

    AllieBaba BANNED

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    33,778
    Likes Received:
    3,647
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +3,647 / 0 / -0
    Why don't you do your job and prove your point?
  5. jillian
    Online

    jillian Princess Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    52,948
    Likes Received:
    9,855
    Trophy Points:
    175
    Location:
    The Other Side of Paradise
    Ratings:
    +9,913 / 32 / -0
    They obviously weren't conservative. They were revolutionaries, which makes them radicals.
  6. AllieBaba
    Offline

    AllieBaba BANNED

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    33,778
    Likes Received:
    3,647
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +3,647 / 0 / -0
    No it doesn't. When it comes to tyranny, it doesn't take "radicals" to rise against it. It takes people who believe they are obligated to fight tyranny, and liberals don't have a monopoly on that. In fact, they don't even have a place in that.
    • Like Like x 4
  7. JakeStarkey
    Offline

    JakeStarkey Silver Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    75,751
    Likes Received:
    6,311
    Trophy Points:
    90
    Ratings:
    +6,345 / 42 / -0
    The Founders were, in the end, "rats" and "anti-rats", the liberals and conservatives for their days. The difference revolved around how much power the national government should have, and of course, Washington and Hamilton and Adams and Madison (initially) and Marshall and Jay and others were all big government dudes.
  8. California Girl
    Offline

    California Girl BANNED

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    50,339
    Likes Received:
    8,957
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +8,957 / 0 / -0
    Funny how each side tries desperately to claim the founders. My theory, they'd be totally ashamed and horrified by both parties. Those dudes would not have belonged to either of these band of fuckers.
    • Like Like x 6
  9. Mad Scientist
    Online

    Mad Scientist Subtle like a Nuclear Weapon! Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    19,618
    Likes Received:
    3,910
    Trophy Points:
    90
    Location:
    Trinity Site
    Ratings:
    +3,984 / 4 / -0
    They also wanted total government control, seeing as how it worked out so well with England in charge of the colonies.
  10. Agit8r
    Offline

    Agit8r VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    302
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +303 / 0 / -0
    Indeed they would be horrified at "both" of our "two" political parties :(
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Big Fitz
    Offline

    Big Fitz User Quit *****

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    16,917
    Likes Received:
    2,472
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +2,472 / 0 / -0
    Radicals against state control, power and very strong capitalists. Most were business owners trying to protect their businesses against government oppression as well. Mercantilism sucks and I'm certain that communism and this current belief in entitlements would make them vomit with rage.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Liability
    Offline

    Liability Locked Account. Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    35,447
    Likes Received:
    5,046
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Mansion in Ravi's Head
    Ratings:
    +5,046 / 0 / -0
    Well, let's think it through.

    The fundamental values espoused by the Founders and Framers when it comes to government is in line with the thinking of today's conservatives.

    The liberals reject the Founders' and Framers' notions of the proper role of government, by and large.

    So, if it's true that in their day the Founders were not "conservatives," it's also true that in our day they would be anything but "liberals."
    • Like Like x 4
  13. Agit8r
    Offline

    Agit8r VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    302
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +303 / 0 / -0

    In the founding/revolutionary quote thread i provided around 30 very telling quotes that proved conclusively that the ideas of the organizer of the Boston Tea Party (Sam Adams), the author of Common Sense (Tom Paine), the author of the Declaration of Independence (Tom Jefferson) and the Author of our Bill of Rights (Jemmy Madison) were significantly at variance with the fundamental (as well as many petty) talking points of modern conservatism. I did my job :cool:
  14. Liability
    Offline

    Liability Locked Account. Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    35,447
    Likes Received:
    5,046
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Mansion in Ravi's Head
    Ratings:
    +5,046 / 0 / -0
    Provide the link.
  15. Political Junky
    Offline

    Political Junky VIP Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    1,612
    Trophy Points:
    88
    Location:
    Fog City
    Ratings:
    +1,618 / 0 / -0
    They were revolutionaries and would have been executed had they not won independence.
  16. Big Fitz
    Offline

    Big Fitz User Quit *****

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    16,917
    Likes Received:
    2,472
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +2,472 / 0 / -0
    What job was that?
  17. theDoctorisIn
    Offline

    theDoctorisIn Senior Mod Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Messages:
    17,609
    Likes Received:
    2,386
    Trophy Points:
    88
    Location:
    between the bay and the breakers
    Ratings:
    +2,416 / 8 / -0
    You know Thomas Paine suggested both a progressive income tax, and Social Security, right?
  18. Agit8r
    Offline

    Agit8r VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,987
    Likes Received:
    302
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +303 / 0 / -0
    They were not like most of our liberal politicians of today, that is true.

    That said, if a modern politician were to say any of those quotes i put up in the founders/revolutionary quote thread, AM radio types would call that person a commie, socialist, anarchist or peacenik.

    I say this not to defend modern liberalism, but to correct the error of modern conservatism
  19. Liability
    Offline

    Liability Locked Account. Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    35,447
    Likes Received:
    5,046
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Mansion in Ravi's Head
    Ratings:
    +5,046 / 0 / -0
    That's a talking pointless.

    I want you to provide the link to the THREAD in which you allegedly did your job.
  20. theDoctorisIn
    Offline

    theDoctorisIn Senior Mod Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Messages:
    17,609
    Likes Received:
    2,386
    Trophy Points:
    88
    Location:
    between the bay and the breakers
    Ratings:
    +2,416 / 8 / -0
    You might be confusing me with someone else in this thread. I never claimed to have "done my job"

Share This Page