Discussion in 'Politics' started by Agit8r, Dec 11, 2010.
there, I said it. Feel free to prove me wrong with empirical fact. go on
That's true. They were however, not statists either.
that is true. they were not
Why don't you do your job and prove your point?
They obviously weren't conservative. They were revolutionaries, which makes them radicals.
No it doesn't. When it comes to tyranny, it doesn't take "radicals" to rise against it. It takes people who believe they are obligated to fight tyranny, and liberals don't have a monopoly on that. In fact, they don't even have a place in that.
The Founders were, in the end, "rats" and "anti-rats", the liberals and conservatives for their days. The difference revolved around how much power the national government should have, and of course, Washington and Hamilton and Adams and Madison (initially) and Marshall and Jay and others were all big government dudes.
Funny how each side tries desperately to claim the founders. My theory, they'd be totally ashamed and horrified by both parties. Those dudes would not have belonged to either of these band of fuckers.
They also wanted total government control, seeing as how it worked out so well with England in charge of the colonies.
Indeed they would be horrified at "both" of our "two" political parties
Radicals against state control, power and very strong capitalists. Most were business owners trying to protect their businesses against government oppression as well. Mercantilism sucks and I'm certain that communism and this current belief in entitlements would make them vomit with rage.
Well, let's think it through.
The fundamental values espoused by the Founders and Framers when it comes to government is in line with the thinking of today's conservatives.
The liberals reject the Founders' and Framers' notions of the proper role of government, by and large.
So, if it's true that in their day the Founders were not "conservatives," it's also true that in our day they would be anything but "liberals."
In the founding/revolutionary quote thread i provided around 30 very telling quotes that proved conclusively that the ideas of the organizer of the Boston Tea Party (Sam Adams), the author of Common Sense (Tom Paine), the author of the Declaration of Independence (Tom Jefferson) and the Author of our Bill of Rights (Jemmy Madison) were significantly at variance with the fundamental (as well as many petty) talking points of modern conservatism. I did my job
Provide the link.
They were revolutionaries and would have been executed had they not won independence.
What job was that?
You know Thomas Paine suggested both a progressive income tax, and Social Security, right?
They were not like most of our liberal politicians of today, that is true.
That said, if a modern politician were to say any of those quotes i put up in the founders/revolutionary quote thread, AM radio types would call that person a commie, socialist, anarchist or peacenik.
I say this not to defend modern liberalism, but to correct the error of modern conservatism
That's a talking pointless.
I want you to provide the link to the THREAD in which you allegedly did your job.
You might be confusing me with someone else in this thread. I never claimed to have "done my job"
Separate names with a comma.