Our elite forces killed "by" the Taliban

[Wicked Jester]

I edited my post about it.

I don't agree. They still value symbolism.

In any event, it may very well be true, as you suggest, that it IS very unlikely.

That would make me feel a little better. Not a lot. But at least a bit.

Pffft. A Chinook is a big fat target. If you are a Taliban fighter with an RPG and you have a reasonable chance of hitting one, you are going to take that shot whether you know it's full of SEALs or completely empty. It doesn't equate to a grand conspiracy. Shit happens in combat.

I doubt this was a set up. I suspect it was just bad luck.

Yeah, a ragheaded Mullah got off a lucky shot.......Shit happens.

I would just like to know the status of the bird.......Was it in flight, hovering, landing, grounded. Was it an AA or dustoff etc.

 

[geauxtohell]

Yes and no.

They know how to take maximum advantage of their habitat.

And that is about 90% of insurgency warfare. If you want to believe these guys are the Keystone Cops, then fine. But what does that make us?

That really doesn't mean that they are all that good at mounting an offensive campaign.

Not at this point. Insurgencies evolve. Read Hackworth (the tactical stuff, not the goofy self publicity tour he went on later in his life).

There IS a geophysical reason that Afghanistan became a quagmire for the Soviets.

Yeah. The insurgents knew how to take "maximum advantage of their habitat" to defeat a technologically superior force. Why do you think Massoud basically stayed in the Panjshir Valley?

by contrast, al qaeda has demonstrated skill at mounting very clever (even intricate) strategies and tactics in an extended offensive manner.

In Afghanistan? Al Queda was little more then a shell in Afghanistan. Every Afghan can spot an Arab from a mile away. They are completely conspicuous. AQ latched on to the Taliban who has always been the muscle in Afghanistan. AQ itself, to my knowledge, never mounted much of any military operation in Afghanistan.

 

[geauxtohell]

I don't agree. They still value symbolism.

In any event, it may very well be true, as you suggest, that it IS very unlikely.

That would make me feel a little better. Not a lot. But at least a bit.

Pffft. A Chinook is a big fat target. If you are a Taliban fighter with an RPG and you have a reasonable chance of hitting one, you are going to take that shot whether you know it's full of SEALs or completely empty. It doesn't equate to a grand conspiracy. Shit happens in combat.

I doubt this was a set up. I suspect it was just bad luck.

Yeah, a ragheaded Mullah got off a lucky shot.......Shit happens.

I would just like to know the status of the bird.......Was it in flight, hovering, landing, grounded. Was it an AA or dustoff etc.

Complete speculation, but I would bet it was landing if I had to put money on it.

The one credible conspiracy theory I could see from this is that this shot was by an old stinger missile and not an RPG. That would be a game changer.

Other than that, they got off an almost identical lucky shot in Redwings with the same results, only that time Special Forces took it on the chin.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Pffft. A Chinook is a big fat target. If you are a Taliban fighter with an RPG and you have a reasonable chance of hitting one, you are going to take that shot whether you know it's full of SEALs or completely empty. It doesn't equate to a grand conspiracy. Shit happens in combat.

I doubt this was a set up. I suspect it was just bad luck.

Yeah, a ragheaded Mullah got off a lucky shot.......Shit happens.

I would just like to know the status of the bird.......Was it in flight, hovering, landing, grounded. Was it an AA or dustoff etc.

Complete speculation, but I would bet it was landing if I had to put money on it.

The one credible conspiracy theory I could see from this is that this shot was by an old stinger missile and not an RPG. That would be a game changer.

Other than that, they got off an almost identical lucky shot in Redwings with the same results, only that time Special Forces took it on the chin.

I'm thinking along the same lines.

But who knows, it could be a myriad of scenarios.

 

[whitehall]

Such a bad thing for Reagans freedom fighters to do!

Here's the deal. America has the greatest technological war machine that the world could ever imagine but Americans are forced to fight on the ground in Afghanistan with terms dictated by the enemy because of some crazy fairness doctrine that liberals subscribe to. We had SEALs blown out of the sky and a couple of days later we killed the bad guys with an air strike. Here's the question: could we kill the bad guys with air strikes and save the ground Troops the trouble?

Here's the deal.

Your ass.

A hole in the ground.

You don't know the difference.

I find it hilarious when people like you complain that the enemy just isn't "fighting fair". It shows how fucking stupid you are. If you had to fight the United States, would you "fight fair"? Would you wear a uniform?

Exactly.

It has nothing to do with the ROE.

Do you understand what I am talking about? Do you understand how the left forces the greatest Military in the world to fight on the enemy's terms? "Fighting fair" is a sissie term. Killing the enemy with superior technology is the objective ...isn't it?

 

[Wicked Jester]

Here's the deal. America has the greatest technological war machine that the world could ever imagine but Americans are forced to fight on the ground in Afghanistan with terms dictated by the enemy because of some crazy fairness doctrine that liberals subscribe to. We had SEALs blown out of the sky and a couple of days later we killed the bad guys with an air strike. Here's the question: could we kill the bad guys with air strikes and save the ground Troops the trouble?

Here's the deal.

Your ass.

A hole in the ground.

You don't know the difference.

I find it hilarious when people like you complain that the enemy just isn't "fighting fair". It shows how fucking stupid you are. If you had to fight the United States, would you "fight fair"? Would you wear a uniform?

Exactly.

It has nothing to do with the ROE.

Do you understand what I am talking about? Do you understand how the left forces the greatest Military in the world to fight on the enemy's terms? "Fighting fair" is a sissie term. Killing the enemy with superior technology is the objective ...isn't it?

We're fighting on the enemies terms?

Where do you get this shit?

What are we supposed to do, go NBC on 'em?

Do you even understand what that would mean?

I'm all for killing ragheads en masse.......ENEMY RAGHEADS!.......I have no desire to see dead civilians littering the entire country, which is exactly what it would be.

FYI.......The left or right is NOT running this mission, the military is.

 

[geauxtohell]

Yeah, a ragheaded Mullah got off a lucky shot.......Shit happens.

I would just like to know the status of the bird.......Was it in flight, hovering, landing, grounded. Was it an AA or dustoff etc.

Complete speculation, but I would bet it was landing if I had to put money on it.

The one credible conspiracy theory I could see from this is that this shot was by an old stinger missile and not an RPG. That would be a game changer.

Other than that, they got off an almost identical lucky shot in Redwings with the same results, only that time Special Forces took it on the chin.

I'm thinking along the same lines.

But who knows, it could be a myriad of scenarios.

It could have been a simple Hail Mary shot.

 

[geauxtohell]

Do you understand what I am talking about? Do you understand how the left forces the greatest Military in the world to fight on the enemy's terms? "Fighting fair" is a sissie term. Killing the enemy with superior technology is the objective ...isn't it?

I'll understand better then you will ever know shit-for-brains. I was over there for a year. Where were you? Talking about how badass our military is and how this is going to be a "cakewalk"?

Dumbfucks like you are why we never learned the lessons from Viet Nam. You continue to think that we get in these situations because we intentionally handicap ourselves. You refuse to acknowledge that we are fighting a crafty, tough, and organized foe.

But by all means, tell me all about how things "should be" in Afghanistan. Even though you and I both know you don't have a fucking clue.

 

[Liability]

Yes and no.

They know how to take maximum advantage of their habitat.

And that is about 90% of insurgency warfare. If you want to believe these guys are the Keystone Cops, then fine. But what does that make us?

That really doesn't mean that they are all that good at mounting an offensive campaign.

Not at this point. Insurgencies evolve. Read Hackworth (the tactical stuff, not the goofy self publicity tour he went on later in his life).

There IS a geophysical reason that Afghanistan became a quagmire for the Soviets.

Yeah. The insurgents knew how to take "maximum advantage of their habitat" to defeat a technologically superior force. Why do you think Massoud basically stayed in the Panjshir Valley?

by contrast, al qaeda has demonstrated skill at mounting very clever (even intricate) strategies and tactics in an extended offensive manner.

In Afghanistan? Al Queda was little more then a shell in Afghanistan. Every Afghan can spot an Arab from a mile away. They are completely conspicuous. AQ latched on to the Taliban who has always been the muscle in Afghanistan. AQ itself, to my knowledge, never mounted much of any military operation in Afghanistan.

Sometimes, for no apparent reason, you are either oddly obtuse or you choose to fake it.

The fact that they exploit their natural terrain advantage so well does not make them Keystone Cops. It does imply that they have SOME savvy. My suggestion is that they are not "all that" in terms of capacity or skill sets, even so. You criticize my position as giving them too little credit (which isn't quite true anyway). But you perhaps simply accord them too much credit.

 

[whitehall]

Here's the deal.

Your ass.

A hole in the ground.

You don't know the difference.

I find it hilarious when people like you complain that the enemy just isn't "fighting fair". It shows how fucking stupid you are. If you had to fight the United States, would you "fight fair"? Would you wear a uniform?

Exactly.

It has nothing to do with the ROE.

Do you understand what I am talking about? Do you understand how the left forces the greatest Military in the world to fight on the enemy's terms? "Fighting fair" is a sissie term. Killing the enemy with superior technology is the objective ...isn't it?

We're fighting on the enemies terms?

Where do you get this shit?

What are we supposed to do, go NBC on 'em?

Do you even understand what that would mean?

I'm all for killing ragheads en masse.......ENEMY RAGHEADS!.......I have no desire to see dead civilians littering the entire country, which is exactly what it would be.

FYI.......The left or right is NOT running this mission, the military is.

I don't know if the Ranger decal is real. My guess is that it is phony. You sissies make my point though. You don't really want to kill the bad guys. You want to pretend the whole thing is a hollywood movie.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Do you understand what I am talking about? Do you understand how the left forces the greatest Military in the world to fight on the enemy's terms? "Fighting fair" is a sissie term. Killing the enemy with superior technology is the objective ...isn't it?

I'll understand better then you will ever know shit-for-brains. I was over there for a year. Where were you? Talking about how badass our military is and how this is going to be a "cakewalk"?

Dumbfucks like you are why we never learned the lessons from Viet Nam. You continue to think that we get in these situations because we intentionally handicap ourselves. You refuse to acknowledge that we are fighting a crafty, tough, and organized foe.

But by all means, tell me all about how things "should be" in Afghanistan. Even though you and I both know you don't have a fucking clue.

But, But, But, that's the way it happens on da' Badge Of Honor game. And i'm up to level 8, DAMMIT!..........I know da' real deals.

 

[geauxtohell]

Yes and no.

They know how to take maximum advantage of their habitat.

And that is about 90% of insurgency warfare. If you want to believe these guys are the Keystone Cops, then fine. But what does that make us?



Not at this point. Insurgencies evolve. Read Hackworth (the tactical stuff, not the goofy self publicity tour he went on later in his life).



Yeah. The insurgents knew how to take "maximum advantage of their habitat" to defeat a technologically superior force. Why do you think Massoud basically stayed in the Panjshir Valley?

by contrast, al qaeda has demonstrated skill at mounting very clever (even intricate) strategies and tactics in an extended offensive manner.

In Afghanistan? Al Queda was little more then a shell in Afghanistan. Every Afghan can spot an Arab from a mile away. They are completely conspicuous. AQ latched on to the Taliban who has always been the muscle in Afghanistan. AQ itself, to my knowledge, never mounted much of any military operation in Afghanistan.

Sometimes, for no apparent reason, you are either oddly obtuse or you choose to fake it.

The fact that they exploit their natural terrain advantage so well does not make them Keystone Cops. It does imply that they have SOME savvy. My suggestion is that they are not "all that" in terms of capacity or skill sets, even so. You criticize my position as giving them too little credit (which isn't quite true anyway). But you perhaps simply accord them too much credit.

I give them as much credit as they deserve. I know how crafty they are.

I think they are a notch above "wiping their asses with a smooth stone", but I won't try and divorce you from your beliefs.

 

[Liability]

And that is about 90% of insurgency warfare. If you want to believe these guys are the Keystone Cops, then fine. But what does that make us?



Not at this point. Insurgencies evolve. Read Hackworth (the tactical stuff, not the goofy self publicity tour he went on later in his life).



Yeah. The insurgents knew how to take "maximum advantage of their habitat" to defeat a technologically superior force. Why do you think Massoud basically stayed in the Panjshir Valley?



In Afghanistan? Al Queda was little more then a shell in Afghanistan. Every Afghan can spot an Arab from a mile away. They are completely conspicuous. AQ latched on to the Taliban who has always been the muscle in Afghanistan. AQ itself, to my knowledge, never mounted much of any military operation in Afghanistan.

Sometimes, for no apparent reason, you are either oddly obtuse or you choose to fake it.

The fact that they exploit their natural terrain advantage so well does not make them Keystone Cops. It does imply that they have SOME savvy. My suggestion is that they are not "all that" in terms of capacity or skill sets, even so. You criticize my position as giving them too little credit (which isn't quite true anyway). But you perhaps simply accord them too much credit.

I give them as much credit as they deserve. I know how crafty they are.

I think they are a notch above "wiping their asses with a smooth stone", but I won't try and divorce you from your beliefs.

Again: your ability to handle a little hyperbole is remarkably well developed!

 

[geauxtohell]

Do you understand what I am talking about? Do you understand how the left forces the greatest Military in the world to fight on the enemy's terms? "Fighting fair" is a sissie term. Killing the enemy with superior technology is the objective ...isn't it?

I'll understand better then you will ever know shit-for-brains. I was over there for a year. Where were you? Talking about how badass our military is and how this is going to be a "cakewalk"?

Dumbfucks like you are why we never learned the lessons from Viet Nam. You continue to think that we get in these situations because we intentionally handicap ourselves. You refuse to acknowledge that we are fighting a crafty, tough, and organized foe.

But by all means, tell me all about how things "should be" in Afghanistan. Even though you and I both know you don't have a fucking clue.

But, But, But, that's the way it happens on da' Badge Of Honor game. And i'm up to level 8, DAMMIT!..........I know da' real deals.

Damn Taliban. Bunch of candy asses. If only the liberals would get out of our way, we could really kick their asses instead of playing slap-dick all the time!

 

[The Infidel]

Damn Taliban. Bunch of candy asses. If only the liberals would get out of our way, we could really kick their asses instead of playing slap-dick all the time!

 

[geauxtohell]

I don't know if the Ranger decal is real. My guess is that it is phony. You sissies make my point though. You don't really want to kill the bad guys. You want to pretend the whole thing is a hollywood movie.

It's real.

What did you do in the big war?

 

[Wicked Jester]

Do you understand what I am talking about? Do you understand how the left forces the greatest Military in the world to fight on the enemy's terms? "Fighting fair" is a sissie term. Killing the enemy with superior technology is the objective ...isn't it?

We're fighting on the enemies terms?

Where do you get this shit?

What are we supposed to do, go NBC on 'em?

Do you even understand what that would mean?

I'm all for killing ragheads en masse.......ENEMY RAGHEADS!.......I have no desire to see dead civilians littering the entire country, which is exactly what it would be.

FYI.......The left or right is NOT running this mission, the military is.

I don't know if the Ranger decal is real. My guess is that it is phony. You sissies make my point though. You don't really want to kill the bad guys. You want to pretend the whole thing is a hollywood movie.

The RANGER decal is real fool........You on the other hand are clueless.

What you are basically proposing is scorched earth policy......You have no idea how to operate in that terrain. No idea of the enemies capabilities. No idea who occupies those territories. No idea of the tribal aspect, and that there are tribes who are friendly, others foe. Christ, i'll bet you actually think Afghan's are Arabs and it's in the middle east. I'm also very sure you think all Afghan's support the enemy, which is far from the truth.

Get back to us when you get a fucking clue.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I'll understand better then you will ever know shit-for-brains. I was over there for a year. Where were you? Talking about how badass our military is and how this is going to be a "cakewalk"?

Dumbfucks like you are why we never learned the lessons from Viet Nam. You continue to think that we get in these situations because we intentionally handicap ourselves. You refuse to acknowledge that we are fighting a crafty, tough, and organized foe.

But by all means, tell me all about how things "should be" in Afghanistan. Even though you and I both know you don't have a fucking clue.

But, But, But, that's the way it happens on da' Badge Of Honor game. And i'm up to level 8, DAMMIT!..........I know da' real deals.

Damn Taliban. Bunch of candy asses. If only the liberals would get out of our way, we could really kick their asses instead of playing slap-dick all the time!

Yeah well, I sure remember during several FF's a god damn liberal poppin' up and tellin' us how to conduct ourselves among the enemy..........You know, kill 'em softly with dignity and respect.

 

[geauxtohell]

Damn Taliban. Bunch of candy asses. If only the liberals would get out of our way, we could really kick their asses instead of playing slap-dick all the time!

That was sarcasm.

 

[geauxtohell]

But, But, But, that's the way it happens on da' Badge Of Honor game. And i'm up to level 8, DAMMIT!..........I know da' real deals.

Damn Taliban. Bunch of candy asses. If only the liberals would get out of our way, we could really kick their asses instead of playing slap-dick all the time!

Yeah well, I sure remember during several FF's a god damn liberal poppin' up and tellin' us how to conduct ourselves among the enemy..........You know, kill 'em softly with dignity and respect.

No shit, there I was. Up to my elbow in suntan lotion and MRE spoons when Jane Fucking Fonda showed up to take charge of my company as the new Company Commander.

I shit you not. It fucking happened. I was there. You think I would make this shit up?