Our broken education system.

[eflatminor]

You really do know absolutely zero about the interstate system do you? I mean just zero. Zilch. Nada.

You know of course the interstate system has designated sections that can serve as emergency landing strips to facilitate emergency military or disaster support, right? You do realize the military does use the system for transit between local bases, right?

One day you'll grow up and realize that yes, there actually is a place for Government planning. Till then feel free to move to Somalia and escape all that intrusive central planning.

And the last time those "emergency landing strips" have been used over the last 60 years? Yea, didn't think so.

Of course there is a place for government. It's right there in the enumerated powers of the Constitution. This thread is about education, so please, point out where in that document the federal government has any authority to meddling in education.

Somalia? What a tired old bullshit argument! Anyone that supports the idea of living by the law of the land is an anarchist! What crap.

 

[blimpo]

Whining about high-stakes testing is just ridiculous.

I agree, unless you must deal with it on a daily basis.

I do.

Do you?

 

[blimpo]

You really do know absolutely zero about the interstate system do you? I mean just zero. Zilch. Nada.

You know of course the interstate system has designated sections that can serve as emergency landing strips to facilitate emergency military or disaster support, right? You do realize the military does use the system for transit between local bases, right?

One day you'll grow up and realize that yes, there actually is a place for Government planning. Till then feel free to move to Somalia and escape all that intrusive central planning.

And the last time those "emergency landing strips" have been used over the last 60 years? Yea, didn't think so.

Of course there is a place for government. It's right there in the enumerated powers of the Constitution. This thread is about education, so please, point out where in that document the federal government has any authority to meddling in education.

Somalia? What a tired old bullshit argument! Anyone that supports the idea of living by the law of the land is an anarchist! What crap.

The Constitution says nothing about education, only the general statement about for the good and welfare of the citizens in the Preamble; that's as close as it gets.

Have no fear, states are in contol of their own education and they've been doing a great job these last 30 years screwing it up as much or more than Washington.

We have legislatures full of insurance, car, and real estate agents that think because they are good at shaking hands, that qualifies then as experts about all areas of education.

The people hired to do the job (teaching), the people doing the job, and the people retired from the job are seldom asked or consulted about how to do the job. Makes sense to me...not..

 

[regent]

If the states want the national government to stay out of their educational domain they have to stop taking federal money. The states still would have to abide by the Constitution, however. We should all be aware that the first national board of education was established in 1867 and the government administers and is responsible for, many many schools throughout the nation.
I wonder what would a perfect school look like to some, perhaps one class that teaches evolution and in the next classroom creation is taught and in the third classroom the stork theory is taught. With that approach allmost all parents would be satisfied with schools, particulary if the parents get to decide their child's grade.

 

[Unkotare]

Whining about high-stakes testing is just ridiculous.

I agree, unless you must deal with it on a daily basis.

I do.

Do you?

I used to. You know who deals with it on a daily basis? Millions and millions of kids in many of those countries that are always held up as doing so much better than us educationally.

 

[squeeze berry]

If the states want the national government to stay out of their educational domain they have to stop taking federal money. The states still would have to abide by the Constitution, however. We should all be aware that the first national board of education was established in 1867 and the government administers and is responsible for, many many schools throughout the nation.
I wonder what would a perfect school look like to some, perhaps one class that teaches evolution and in the next classroom creation is taught and in the third classroom the stork theory is taught. With that approach allmost all parents would be satisfied with schools, particulary if the parents get to decide their child's grade.

if the federal govt. would stop taking money from the 50 states taxpayers that would work.

 

[regent]

If the states want the national government to stay out of their educational domain they have to stop taking federal money. The states still would have to abide by the Constitution, however. We should all be aware that the first national board of education was established in 1867 and the government administers and is responsible for, many many schools throughout the nation.
I wonder what would a perfect school look like to some, perhaps one class that teaches evolution and in the next classroom creation is taught and in the third classroom the stork theory is taught. With that approach allmost all parents would be satisfied with schools, particulary if the parents get to decide their child's grade.

if the federal govt. would stop taking money from the 50 states taxpayers that would work.

The framers gave both the national government and the state governments the power to tax, if the states are not up to using their power to tax, that's their decision. Of course we could go back to the Articles where only the states had the taxing power.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Of course there is a place for government. It's right there in the enumerated powers of the Constitution. This thread is about education, so please, point out where in that document the federal government has any authority to meddling in education.

Education is an enumerated power reserved for the States. I don't know how to be anymore clear on my position than that.

I think we're probably more in agreement than you think. I think we both agree Federal involvement in education is generally a bad idea. I think we both agree that free market competition will improve schools (though I have the caveat it MAY not work in very small markets).

The bone I'm picking is that the old lie that "Anything done by government can be done better by the free market." That's just patently untrue. It's part of why the Articles failed. For actions that aren't likely to be profitable, you do need government intervention.

On the interstate thing: I haven't used my fire extinguisher since I bought my house. I still take it to be recharged and inspected. Just because the emergency landing areas on the interstate haven't been used doesn't mean it's a bad idea for them to exist. Sometimes, you just make an investment in the long term. That's exactly the kind of thing government does better than private industry.

 

[Samson]

... Just because the emergency landing areas on the interstate haven't been used doesn't mean it's a bad idea for them to exist. Sometimes, you just make an investment in the long term. That's exactly the kind of thing government does better than private industry.

So, are you saying that by supporting the construction of a new High School Football Colusium, it is an "investment in the long term?"

Tell me, is there anything that COULDN'T be considered an investment in the long term?

Should government buy my toothpaste? What about my shoes?

I'm feeling a bit peckish: How about they buy me a Latte?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

So, are you saying that by supporting the construction of a new High School Football Colusium, it is an "investment in the long term?"

Tell me, is there anything that COULDN'T be considered an investment in the long term?

Should government buy my toothpaste? What about my shoes?

I'm feeling a bit peckish: How about they buy me a Latte?

Disaster preparedness is always a good investment. Your lattes, not so much.

As for investments in Sports facilities, that's a whole other issue. I generally consider that a waste of funds and a misprioritization.

 

[Unkotare]

As for investments in Sports facilities, that's a whole other issue. I generally consider that a waste of funds and a misprioritization.

Why?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

As for investments in Sports facilities, that's a whole other issue. I generally consider that a waste of funds and a misprioritization.

Why?

At the college level, I've seen just stupid amounts of money sunk into athletics. From a fiscal stand point it often makes sense, but considering the focus of the institution is supposed to be on education, it seems like a case of misprioritization. Not to mention college level athletics is practically slavery. For a pittance the school will make millions of a kid who is prohibited from seeing one single cent of that money. In return coaches will advise them to avoid any class with substance to stay eligible and insure they get a degree that wouldn't get them hired to sell used cars. It's a damn shame.

 

[Unkotare]

As for investments in Sports facilities, that's a whole other issue. I generally consider that a waste of funds and a misprioritization.

Why?

At the college level, I've seen just stupid amounts of money sunk into athletics. From a fiscal stand point it often makes sense, but considering the focus of the institution is supposed to be on education, it seems like a case of misprioritization. Not to mention college level athletics is practically slavery. For a pittance the school will make millions of a kid who is prohibited from seeing one single cent of that money. In return coaches will advise them to avoid any class with substance to stay eligible and insure they get a degree that wouldn't get them hired to sell used cars. It's a damn shame.

That's a load of bullshit. At the college level, many sports bring in significant amounts of money. Even those sports that don't directly earn much play a part in boosting the school's image among alumni (where a very large part of a school's money comes from). Calling college level athletics "slavery" is stupid and offensive on several levels and you should be ashamed of yourself for indulging in such empty emoting. Show me proof of coaches advising athletes to avoid certain classes if you can. The vast, vast, vast majority of college athletes do not go on to pro sports careers, and the vast majority graduate with a degree in the major of their choosing. You are being misleading, ignorant, and sensationalistic. It's a damn shame you can't show more character.

 

[Samson]

So, are you saying that by supporting the construction of a new High School Football Colusium, it is an "investment in the long term?"

Tell me, is there anything that COULDN'T be considered an investment in the long term?

Should government buy my toothpaste? What about my shoes?

I'm feeling a bit peckish: How about they buy me a Latte?

Disaster preparedness is always a good investment. Your lattes, not so much.

As for investments in Sports facilities, that's a whole other issue. I generally consider that a waste of funds and a misprioritization.

Well,it saddens me to hear how callous you've become toward the "long term" mental health and spiritual well being of us latte drinkers, but you have served to illustrate the point:

An "investment in the long term" is quite subjective.

 

[regent]

The sad thing about sports and universtities is that the university too often gets its noteriety and reputation from sports and not academics. At one time the University of Chicago was a member of the Big Ten and produced the first Heisman winner, and then the head of the university decided that to really be an excellent university it could not do both, so Chicago dropped sports and the Big Ten.
Was Hutchins right?

 

[Unkotare]

The sad thing about sports and universtities is that the university too often gets its noteriety and reputation from sports and not academics.

Why is that "sad"?

 

[blimpo]

Whining about high-stakes testing is just ridiculous.

I agree, unless you must deal with it on a daily basis.

I do.

Do you?

I used to. You know who deals with it on a daily basis? Millions and millions of kids in many of those countries that are always held up as doing so much better than us educationally.

And the ones that don't, you forgot to mention:

Millions and millions of kids in those countries that were culled out and sent on a vocational track where their supposedly low test scores are not figured into the the world rankings...

 

[Unkotare]

I agree, unless you must deal with it on a daily basis.

I do.

Do you?

I used to. You know who deals with it on a daily basis? Millions and millions of kids in many of those countries that are always held up as doing so much better than us educationally.

And the ones that don't, you forgot to mention:

Millions and millions of kids in those countries that were culled out and sent on a vocational track where their supposedly low test scores are not figured into the the world rankings...

And? What conclusion are you hoping to reach based on that?

 

[blimpo]

That our total population is compared to the best of theirs when we try to rank contries in educational lists.

 

[Unkotare]

That our total population is compared to the best of theirs when we try to rank contries in educational lists.

That is an issue about comparing educational systems in general but has nothing specifically to do with high-stakes testing.