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Originally posted by Kathianne
Now that is sick!

There is no doubt, it is sick but when you're there and your inhibitions are all but obliterated by the tequila your curiosity gets the best of ya, you know?

It was so long ago I can't really remember what the skank looked like but everytime I see a donkey I get a cold feeling up my spine :D

Its like the time I went to a cockfight, for education and information purposes only:D
 
Must be a guy thing OCA. Have nothing close to it, other than watching turtle races in a LA bar one night. No one hurt the turtles or did anything crude.

I do not have a strong stomach, for icky or tequilla.
 
Originally posted by Kathianne
Must be a guy thing OCA. Have nothing close to it, other than watching turtle races in a LA bar one night. No one hurt the turtles or did anything crude.

I do not have a strong stomach, for icky or tequilla.

I've got to admit blood and such doesn't bother me, the only time I got freaked out was a closed caption viewing of my grandmother's cataracts surgery. Just the thought of somebody rummaging around my eye gave me the willies.

LOL @ icky:D
 
While I am morally opposed to prostitution, I would not oppose its legalization.

Dunno about the FDA though... I would have to research it, though I think it might be rough getting it abolished. Most Americans think it is the only safeguard between them and food poisoning.
 
Here's something that ties into the whole prostitution thing:

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0610johns-exposed-ON.html

Arrested 'Johns' shamed with photos on Web
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Associated Press
Jun. 10, 2004 08:10 AM


DALLAS - Dallas police hope a little exposure will get "Johns" to think twice.

The DPD is posting pictures on its Web of men busted for soliciting prostitution.

The Internet page not only has pictures of the alleged Johns, but their names, birth dates and hometowns, too. The photo gallery is under the heading of "indecency related offenses," and police officials say it's pretty popular.

Lt. John Dagen says in the first 24 hours alone, the site had more than 4,100 hits.

He said they even had two women call the department, after hearing their husbands' pictures were posted on the Web site.

What do you guys think about this?
I personally think that if you do something and you feel ashamed by it then you probably shouldn't be doing it. I'm not sure how many guys are ashamed by having sex with prostitues, but the ones that are ashamed shouldn't be having sex with prostitutes in the first place.
 
I did it! I found the paper that I had to write on prostitution. No remember folks, I had to take a positve side on this because of the instructor. My personal feelings are that I am still undecided. But I did get and "A" on this paper!! ;)

I apologize in advance on the length.

My view on prostitution is a bit complicated. If you would have asked me about this topic a couple of years ago, I would have said it was ludicrous and it would not help society at all. It would bring in drug dealers, pimps, and other criminal elements more so. My support for these claims would be that it is morally wrong and that prostitution is a sin according to the bible. Throughout the past couple of years my views have changed. I learned that there are a lot of positives that it would bring to a society. I will show why prostitution should be legalized, even though most people believe it is morally wrong. I now personally believe that the legalization of prostitution would benefit society.

The first thing I researched was if prostitution would be beneficial from an economic point-of-view. I thought if we could tax all the revenue coming in from prostitution, then we could have the money to run clean and safe brothels. It would cover all the expenses and even leave some money that would go directly to the state. In comparison, the average city in the U.S. spends 7.5 million dollars on prostitution control, while the prostitution profession brings in roughly 14.5 billion dollars in the U.S. If this billion dollar industry were taxed, the state would bring in millions. I was trying to figure out exactly, how much money it would bring in, but I finally gave up because it all depended on how prostitution was taxed. Some of the opposing arguments I found tried to say that disability claims and other expenses like O.S.H.A. would cost too much money but I am sure that the money that would be coming in from taxed prostitution would cover all the expenses. If you were to look at this issue economically, it would be extremely beneficial to our society.

The next issue I looked at was safety. No one wants STD's being spread around. I know that modern contraceptives are pretty reliable, but how reliable? Even the opposing arguments state that in a study, the best condoms work effectively 99% of the time. If prostitution were legalized, only the best condoms would be used. Even though some opposing sides state that this would create a monopoly, I would have to disagree. If this business becomes big, almost any condom company will improve their condoms so they can be used in brothels. Most of the problems with condoms are that they are used improperly. Slippage and breakage can occur if it is not used properly. The prostitutes could be (almost certainly would be) trained in this area. If you consider that there will be screenings and exams before sex, plus the use of contraceptives, the spread of STD's will almost be non-existent. In one Nevada brothel it is said that prostitutes are checked by a physician weekly. There are also exams of customers sexual organs as a prerequisite for sex. In this country right now, only 3-5% of STD's are related to prostitution (this is without having it legal and regulated). The opposing side believes that it will cost more to have it legalized, then to keep it illegal. This is not true because you are comparing the money to keep it running to the billions of dollars it would be bringing into society.

Another reason why legalizing prostitution would help society is that it would help prostitutes have more self-esteem in terms of not feeling ashamed for the profession that they do. Prostitution would be viewed as more acceptable, for example strippers at strip clubs are socially acceptable. It would make it easier to get out of the profession because it would be more respectable. A problem with prostitution is that prostitutes are mistreated. Some prostitutes are raped 8 to 10 times a year. These rapes are usually unreported. Only 4% of women prostitutes, who claim to have been raped, make police reports. If we were to legalize prostitution it would become similar to a brothel system. In that type of system the prostitutes are in a controlled environment where there would be security, like bouncers, in the brothel. The profession will be more respectable, and would help build prostitutes self-esteem because they will be treated with much more respect. Not only would there be less rapes, but a higher percentage of prostitution rapes would be reported. Therefore, prostitutes would be better protected.

The opposing side has tried to say that prostitutes would be forced to stay in the business and even if they left they would not have any job skills. First of all, the prostitutes can leave the profession at any time because pimps will not be forcing them to stay in it. The prostitute would also have more self respect and the confidence to leave the profession. I do not believe that prostitutes have no job skills. They would be able to communicate with people well from a customer service perspective. They could also go in any industry that was involved with sex, like pornography or things of that nature if they chose not to branch out from the sex industry. The ideal situation would be that prostitutes eventually get out of the sex industry and possibly save up their money and go back to school. So the prostitutes would have choices and could have the opportunity at a better life.

Another subject that comes up is that a person chooses to get a prostitute, therefore they use them at their own risk. I debated with myself on whether it was a victimless crime or a willing victim. The World Book Dictionary states that a victim is "a person who suffers some hardship or loss." It doesn't say if it changes whether you are willing or not. So I will stick with a willing victim. There are victims in some cases, like if a husband goes to a prostitute and cheats on his wife. It will not only affect him, but his whole family as well. These people would be victims whether prostitution was legal or not. The person who cheats is obviously not trustworthy and would probably cheat anyway. A person who goes to a prostitute knows what they are getting into. The risks that they are going to take will be evident to them. If there is a victim, they need to take responsibility upon themselves.

When you evaluate prostitution, you have to realize that prostitution has been around a very long time. Whether you like it or not, it will more and likely always be in existence. Some people who are for the legalization of prostitution have said that we (as a country) should legalize it because it will be around anyway. I don't completely agree because the mentality is not, "If you can1t beat them, join them". It is just taking into consideration that it will be in our society in some way. I do agree that it is going to be around and it would be a lot better if it were legalized. It is going to exist, so why not make it better? Some opposers to the legalization have compared this to murder. There is no comparison because in prostitution their are two willing people and it benefits both people in some way, this is definitely not the case in murder. This is just another reason why we should legalize it.

One of the weakest arguments that the opposing side has had was that they said prostitutes are not supposed to have sex that much. I do not know where they got that information, I have never heard that a person can only have sex so many times in a day. If a newly wed couple has sex twenty times a day, do they need to restrict them? Everyone's body is different and I'm sure some people can have a lot more sex than others. They say that many prostitutes are sore after the day is done. Isn't everybody? UPS drivers have sore backs, secretary's have sore hands, even teacher's feet can hurt after a day of lecturing. I think almost anyone is mentally or physically drained or sore at the end of a work day.

Another fact about prostitution that is hard to refute is that it is a persons right to rent their body. I believe that your body is your property, even though it’s not really property, it should be treated as if you own it. Basically, if your body is yours then you can rent it out. I believe that our country is based on freedom of choice. This is stated in our constitution, which is what our nation has been built on. In the act of prostitution, there are two willing parties. Each person is getting what they want, either money or sex.

One of the main misconceptions that the opposing side has is that prostitution will be on the streets. This is not true because it will be in a regulated brothel. All the prostitutes will be in the brothels, not where anyone can see them. With everything offered in the brothel, it will not infringe on anyone's rights. The opposing side makes an assumption that the brothels will be in the middle of neighborhoods or next to schools. There is already zoning laws in effect that can prevent this from happening. They also think that there will be advertisement that will get in the hands of children. This advertising will be the same as strip clubs that are around now. There are laws so they will not be sexually explicit in any way. If citizens really do not want brothels or even advertising like billboards, they can do something about it. They can petition, protest, and fight the courts to prevent it from happening. So any community who does not want to see those types of things, do not have to.

The opposing side also suggests that the brothel system will infringe on the prostitutes rights. I do not believe that it is true. They say that a brothel system makes it so prostitutes are in a prison. They can not come and go as they please. I do think that some brothels do infringe on the prostitutes rights, but if it were legalized we could eliminate some of these things. Even after we eliminated some things, it would still be safe. The opposition had a strong argument, but they did not prove that the restrictions that we had to keep on the brothels would violate prostitutes rights. Yes, prostitutes are going to be looked over, but not anymore than a strip club does. A lot of people have restrictions on what they do outside of the job, but most people put restrictions on themselves. A professional athlete will not do anything that will affect his or her body, because it could end their career. This is the same way with prostitutes. Prostitutes will not want to have trade-sex outside of the brothel, because they could lose their job and probably be kicked out of the profession. It would not be a smart move because they have so much to lose.

Another strong point in the argument for the legalization is that prostitutes will have the right to choose. The opposition states that, in a brothel system, the prostitutes do not have the right to refuse service. Of course they can quit, but they still think it will take away some rights. Why would a prostitute refuse a customer? That is what their job is. Unless their is a health risk i.e. sickness, abuse, etc, there is no reason to refuse customers. You are in this business to have sex with unknown people, but you can leave if you do not like it. The opposition also states that based on the "Bill of Sexual Rights", a brothel system takes away their right to interact with their cultural society. I was amazed that this was even used in an argument to further point of why not to legalize prostitution. When I started reading the "Bill of Sexual Rights" it sounded like it would help legalize prostitution. The very first one that I read stated "I have a right to my own body". It also stated that "I have the right to trust my own values about sexual contact".

Another argument that is used quite often is that there are hundreds of reasons why prostitution is wrong morally. Non of those reasons are relevant because morals and religion cannot be used in a court of law. In the prosecutions first argument they claim that they don’t want to promote prostitution, because most religions deem it immoral. The "separation between church and state" made it so those reasons cannot be used. If we started basing our laws on religion, many things would be banned, like alcohol, strip clubs, and abortions. Religion has no relevance in a court.

Even though I believe that prostitution has a strong case, I do not think prostitution would make it to court. First of all, no politician in their right mind would back legalization of prostitution. It is not socially popular. Even some of the people who would visit a brothel, would still not want it around here. The politician would be harassed constantly. They would not win another race after that. If a politician or a large group are not pushing for it, it will not happen. California has a very diverse society with many different religions, but most of these religions would be strongly against prostitution. So I do not personally believe that it will ever get a chance to be tried in a court room.

If prostitution ever did go to court, I think that the legalization of prostitution would pass. It would not be based on morals, religion or public opinion. If the jury was just, then they would have no choice but to pass it. If you look at it from a economic stand point then it looks great. It would not infringe on anyone else’s rights, and keeping it illegal would. It would not help the spread of STD's, but further curve the spread. It would help prostitutes get out of the profession if they would like to. It would help prostitutes get higher self-esteem and be able to live like anyone else. They could use the money to go back to school and have a second chance at a better life. If personal beliefs of jurors were put aside, I believe that it would have good possibility of being passed.

In conclusion, I think that prostitution should be legal or at least decriminalized. It is the oldest profession and regardless of the laws that are passed, it will not go away. Women, men, and transgenders engage in prostitution for many different reasons, but regardless of what those reasons are, it is still a personal choice that people are making. If it were legal, it could be more easily regulated, specifically with medical testing for STDs, for the protection of both the prostitutes and their clientele .
 
Excellent position paper, Starla, though I disagree with your logic regarding separation of church and state and the moral foundation of the law. All laws are based on some sort of morality, which is why I have such a hard time supporting legalization - while I think it would make good economic since, and certainly allows greater liberty, it is an immoral profession.
 
Thanks! That's why I got the "A"! :D Ya, like I said, I'm pretty much undecided about this issue, but in my class he assigned each person a side to take on the issue. I guess I would've been screwed either way considering I'm torn on the issue. :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by gop_jeff
Excellent position paper, Starla, though I disagree with your logic regarding separation of church and state and the moral foundation of the law. All laws are based on some sort of morality, which is why I have such a hard time supporting legalization - while I think it would make good economic since, and certainly allows greater liberty, it is an immoral profession.

perhaps engaging in immorality is the way some most go to learn
 
Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
Here's something that ties into the whole prostitution thing:

Arrested 'Johns' shamed with photos on Web advertisement

The Internet page not only has pictures of the alleged Johns, but their names, birth dates and hometowns, too. The photo gallery is under the heading of "indecency related offenses," and police officials say it's pretty popular.

What do you guys think about this?
I personally think that if you do something and you feel ashamed by it then you probably shouldn't be doing it. I'm not sure how many guys are ashamed by having sex with prostitues, but the ones that are ashamed shouldn't be having sex with prostitutes in the first place.

The shame and embarrassment approach might work against someone who has something to hide from an ignorant spouse. It may work against someone who is so insecure in his own value system that he craves and caves into societal approval. It probably won't work against one who is genuine (whose self-esteem is not based on societal expectation) and who is not living a "double-life". I remember an event that took place a few weeks ago.

After I arrived home from work, my wife and I drove several miles to a "adult shop" . We looked at sexual novelty items, porn magazines, and videos. (Note: As far as I know, we are sexually content with each other but like to learn new things every great once in a while.) We were in the process of renting a video when my wife realized that she left her change purse under the passenger seat of my car. She asked me to get her purse. While I left her in the store and walked to my car, I saw a man wearing a large camera watching the back of my car and writing something on a note pad. I walked quietly up behind him, tapped him on the shoulder and asked if I could be of assistance. I imagine that he jumped 2 feet into the air.

Anyway, We talked for a while. I don't remember everything that was said but he basically asked me what I would think if people know that I was a customer at this porn shop. I said that I wouldn't care what the public knows as long as it has the facts straight (and I pointed to his note pad). He also asked what the police would think. I explained that I have a clean record as far as they are concerned and I said that I would be happy to give him a copy of my police report if he were so interested. He looked down, shook his head, and finally asked what my wife would think of my sneaking off at night to a porn shop. I said that if he would wait just a few minutes she would be outside and that he could ask her himself.

I opened the car, picked up my wife's purse and walked to the store. I glanced over my shoulder as I entered the shop and I noticed that the meddlesome man with the camera was walking in the other direction. I walked quickly into the store and told my wife about the experience. She quickly rented the video with me at her side. We went outside with the video and looked for the guy with the camera and notepad. We couldn't find him, so we got into my car and drove home.

We don't know what happened to him. To this day the ONLY thing that ever happened as a result of that evening at the porn shop was an enjoyable late night of video watching, love, and sexual experimentation.
 

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