Oregon green energy fraud

Discussion in 'Energy' started by mdn2000, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. mdn2000
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    mdn2000 BANNED

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    Its a sad state of affairs when the proponets of Green energy must lie and deceive the public.

    Oregon gets less than 1% of their total energy from green sources yet they claim 25% is possible.

    Oregon's governent lies and hides the true costs of green energy taxing the people more and demanding more tax money from the rest of the United States.

    From the "Institute for Energy Research"

    Institute for Energy Research Blog Archive BUSTED: Oregon “Green Energy” Backers Accused of Cooking the Books, Deliberately Hiding Huge Taxpayer Costs

     
  2. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    3.5% by 2007, much more now, nearly 1 giga-watt online at present, much more coming as the South Eastern Oregon projects come on line. Those particular projects are also in an area rich in geo-thermal potential. Plus that area has enough sunlight to make solar thermal economical there.

    http://www.awea.org/AWEA_Annual_Rankings_Report.pdf

    As for subsidies, cut the subsidies to fossil fuel plants, and see how many get built. Not only that, make that industry pay for the real damage it does to the environment, and they will be bankrupt tomorrow.

    Cut the subsidies for nuclear, and there will be no more nuclear plants built.
     
  3. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    By the way, why would I trust the word of an "Institute" that has as it's director, the former director of Enron's Public Relation Policy?

    Institute for Energy Research - SourceWatch

    The Institute for Energy Research (IER), founded in 1989 from a predecessor non-profit organisation, advocates positions on environmental issues which happen to suit the energy industry: climate change denial, claims that conventional energy sources are virtually limitless, and the deregulation of utilities.

    It is a member of the Sustainable Development Network. The IER's President was formerly Director of Public Relations Policy at Enron.
     
  4. mdn2000
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    See the arguement in favor of wind power, ignore the reality and attack the critics.

    The government of Oregon is intentionally deceiving the public and Old Crock's arguement is "look he worked for Enron". Lots of people work for lots of companies involved in scandals, does that make everybody who is an employee a fraud, not hardly, and this is not a valid arguement proving the government of Oregon is not lieing.

    Old Crock cannot address the massive subsidies a wind farm needs, instead Old Crock's arguement is "they have subsidies so I should have susidies".

    Susidies are everywhere and should go, that said the subsidies wind farms receive surpass all subsidies of all other energy sources combined yet wind provides less than 1% of the energy they claim they can provide.

    As if a subsidy will allow wind farms overcome the physical limitations of capaturing energy form the wind.
     
  5. mdn2000
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    mdn2000 BANNED

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    NoFreeWind - The Heavy Price We Pay for Windpower: Wind Turbine Output Graphs – Part I

    The only thing keeping wind power blowing is massive amounts of tax money.

    Pay more in taxes to pay for wind.

    Pay more for electricity to pay for wind.

    Pay more for water to pay for wind.
     
  6. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    42% of all installed capacity in the US in 2009 was wind. Installed by private contractors using American workers. Many of the turbines were GE, built here in America. And the turbines are maintenanced by Americans, and most are on American farmers land, and these farmers recieve a good yearly income from those turbines.

    Win-Win for everybody, except those that hate the thought of Americans making money.
     
  7. mdn2000
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    mdn2000 BANNED

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    What, huh, your comment makes no sense

    Old Crock you left out that the Wind Turbines are completely subsidized with my tax dollars, with my children's tax dollars, with all american's tax dollars, this generation, and the next generation who will be paying for the wind farms to the tune of 100's of billions of dollars.

    Many were not

    Top 10 Wind Turbine Manufacturers by Megawatts Installed Worldwide in 2009 | Renewable Energy Sources - Photovoltaic, Geothermal, Wind Plus Much More

    As we can see GE is a minor player if you take into account the percentage of the market all the other players hold. In parenthesis is the country in which the companies manufacture wind turbines, in the case of GE most manufacturing is in Germany.

    Manufacturing is putting it all together, materials are imported from other countries, as in the case of fiberglass most is manufactured in China and than exported to the countries where the final product is assembled. Fiberglass is very polluting hence most manufacturers prefer a country like China where pollution laws can be ignored. 4 million BTUs used to manufacture 1 ton of fiberglass, around 60 tons of fiberglass per windmill, mayber more, not less, thats 60 million btus for the fiberglass portion, how about the steel, another 50 tons, copper 20 tons, carbon fiber, titanium, chromoly, titanium, carbon steel, stainless steel, plastic, how much energy expended for a wind turbine that sits idle for 90% of its life.

    General Electric Company - Money,Politics,Campaign Contributions,General Electric Company

    General Electric is one of Obama's largest campaign contributers.

    And who Lobbys for who

    GE hires Linda Daschle as a lobbyist | Washington Examiner

    Wow, GE owns MSNBC, seems MSNBC is very freindly to Obama, seems I see global warming stories on MSNBC, seems GE advertises Wind Turbines on MSNBC.

    Except for those who pay the taxes that subsidize wind farms or for people who pay for electricity and water.

    SCE Rate Hike


    Now we have an industry mandated by government regulation that is built with tax subsidies and raises electrical rates charged to the same people who paid taxes so that private corporations can profit.

    California Ups Renewable Energy Mandate to 33% by 2020 : Red, Green, and Blue

    And here is how Old Crock addresses me

    Old Crock never responds, Old Crock has posted links to articles, I follow the links, and you know what, the material was not read by Old Crock, Old Crocks own source confirrms my point, not Old Crock.

    One of the funniest is Old Crock stated that Old Crock worked in a steel smelter, Old Crock than said the smelter ran on electricity, I stated it needed fossil fuel as well, Old Crock posted a link that explained the smelting process, yes it used electricity but it also needed natural gas as the link clearly stated. Thanks Old Crock, that was rich, it was funny, I will have to dig that thread up and bump it to the top, it was really funny and shows that Old Crock either does not read Old Crocks source or does not understand his own source.

    Dementia must be a bitch, on a serious note I have empathy towards Old Crock, its fun to tease when someone is such an asshole but we should acknowledge there is nothing funny about Old Crocks struggle with Dementia.
     
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  8. thomas78
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    thomas78 Rookie

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    Well I guess green energy solutions and alternative energy such as wind power and solar power has become a hot topic in the political arena. The more focus you have on it the more votes you get. It's only natural with the continously rising oil costs and environmental strains.
     
  9. mdn2000
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    Wind Energy is a waste of energy and natural resourse as is Solar, I speak as in compared to Oil.

    Read all of 100% Alternative energy and you will see how the arguement in favor of alternatives falls apart.
     
  10. JiggsCasey
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    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010

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