Open Borders

Discussion in 'Immigration/Illegal Immigration' started by sky dancer, Nov 20, 2008.

  1. sky dancer
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    I thought this idea deserves it's own thread. Here is a clip from an essay to start the topic going:

    "Israel’s experience is instructive. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the mass exodus of Russian Jews swelled Israel’s working-age population by 8 percent in two years and by more than 15 percent between 1989 and 1997 — the equivalent of 15 million foreigners unexpectedly arriving in the United States over the next two years, and 29 million by 2016. Jews everywhere have an automatic right to settle in Israel, which leaves the country open to mass inflows of immigrants, irrespective of the country’s economic needs and circumstances.

    The influx of Russian Jews in the 1990s posed a severe test of the economic viability of Israel’s “right of return” policy. After all, the newcomers didn’t speak Hebrew and didn’t have jobs to go to. Yet as I explain in detail in my book Immigrants: Your Country Needs Them, Israel was able to absorb this huge and unexpected inflow of immigrants without a rise in unemployment, and with only a temporary fall in wages. The upshot is clear: even when migration is motivated by political crisis rather than economic demand, flexible advanced economies can absorb large numbers of immigrants with scarcely any cost to native workers."

    When Britain opened its borders to the Poles and other East Europeans, all 75 million people in those much poorer countries could conceivably have moved, but in fact only a fraction have, and most have already left again. Many are, in effect, international commuters, splitting their time between Britain and Poland. Of course, some will end up settling, but most won’t. Most people don’t want to leave home at all, let alone leave it forever: they want to go work abroad for a while to learn English and earn enough to buy a house or set up a business back home.

    Studies show that most Mexican migrants have similar aspirations. If they could come and go freely, most would move only temporarily. But perversely, U.S. border controls end up making many stay for good, because crossing the border is so risky and costly that once a person has got across he tends to stay. A Mexican who overstays his visa knows that if he returns home, he will never be able to reenter the United States legally.


    Open Borders Work, Part 2
     
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  2. Mad Scientist
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    Open borders only provides cheap illegal alien slave labor for business and depresses wages by increasing the pool of workers.
    If the people are smart, and I'm not saying they are, but if they're smart, they will want the borders secured. Not closed, just secured so that we may regulate who comes in.

    Think about it. In this economy, do you want to compete for jobs against Americans, or Mexicans and Americans?
     
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  3. sky dancer
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    I'm just waiting to see what happens with this topic. It's very difficult to get people out of their ruts when discussing immigration.

    If all the people that are illegally in the US for jobs became legal overnight--the grouches would continue to grouse.

    The issue is not really who is here legally and who is not.
     
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  4. Zoom-boing
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    Obviously you have no problem with illegal aliens in the U.S. Perhaps you are one yourself, who knows. And obviously your 'issue' is not their illegality. We're in a rut because we object to people sneaking across the border, taking U.S. jobs, leaching off of the system, not paying taxes, committing crimes and not being punished for them and just being parasites? Ok, I admit it -- I'm in a rut.

    So now you want to wave a magic wand like the man behind the curtain and make all the illegals legal overnight? Why should they get a free ride? Why shouldn't they be booted out and sent to the back of the line? What makes these people so damned special that they can just sneak in here and stay?
     
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  5. sky dancer
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    What I'd like to do in this thread is discuss the idea of open borders. There is a book I'd like to read by Jason Riley, a writer for the Wall Street Journal editorial page called LET THEM IN.
    [ame]http://www.amazon.com/review/product/1592403492/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1[/ame]
     
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  6. Mad Scientist
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    Uh, I think I did discuss the idea of open borders. Perhaps you just want someone to agree with you?
    If you really want to discuss the "idea" of open borders then go here:
    http://saveourstate.org/index.php
    Read up on those who are "living the dream" of open borders on a daily basis. Post a little and see how they respond to your "idea" of open borders.
     
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  7. xsited1
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    Have you heard of Jason Riley? He recently wrote a new book about this.

    In a provocative new book, Jason Riley makes the case for welcoming more legal immigrants to the United States. Drawing on history, scholarly studies and first-hand reporting, Riley argues that today's newcomers are fueling America's prosperity and dynamism. He challenges the prevailing views on talk radio and cable TV that immigrants are overpopulating the country, stealing jobs, depressing wages, bankrupting social services, filling prisons, resisting assimilation and promoting big government.

    [YOUTUBE]A3q9K3NFRlI[/YOUTUBE]
     
  8. sky dancer
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    I am just learning about Mr Riley's book.
     
  9. sky dancer
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    saveourstate is a nativist organization, isn't it? That's another topic--nativism and anti-immigration extremism.

    Here is an idea to open the borders--and completely eliminate 'immigration illegality'. I would think that would be of some interest to you to investigate.
     
  10. sky dancer
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    The implicit premise of barring foreigners is: "This is our country, we let in who we want." But who is "we"? The government does not own the country. Jurisdiction is not ownership. Only the owner of land or any item of property can decide the terms of its use or sale. Nor does the majority own the country. This is a country of private property, and housing is private property. So is a job.

    American land is not the collective property of some entity called "the U.S. government." Nor is there such thing as collective, social ownership of the land. The claim, "We have the right to decide who is allowed in" means some individuals--those with the most votes--claim the right to prevent other citizens from exercising their rights. But there can be no right to violate the rights of others.

    Immigration Quotas vs. Individual Rights: The Moral and Practical Case for Open Immigration by Harry Binswanger -- Capitalism Magazine
     

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