Only the Rich Pay Taxes - Oxycontin Boy

[rayboyusmc]

The greatest spending power is the middle class simply because of its size.

Keep the middle class healthy and you will have a healthy economy.

Just focus on keeping the rich class healthy and your living in Reagan's dream world of "trickle down" The worst hoax perpetuated on this country in the economic theories of the rich drive the economy.

 

[Navy1960]

I disagree with this, to a degree...

The reason why, is that this does not include tax monies spent on the very wealthy, where the poor would not benefit...for example the SEC and the treasury dept, and the FAA where a poor person may have never traveled by air for business or vacation in their entire lives...and may have nothing invested in the stock market or in our banks even...they spend all that they make...

This all would be to the advantage of the richer person, while it would NOT be included in this man's chart of expenditures that benefits each tax bracket group....

Can you see this...?

And this is just one aspect of the tax spending that our gvt does that benefits the richer people over those with less....

There is also HUGE no bid contracts and private contracts with private companies where the company and the executives benefit the most out of those gvt contracts, while the chamber maid or restaurant worker would not...

These things are not counted in these kind of charts...

ALL of this is a redistribution of wealth, not just TANF or welfare programs like the earned income credit...while tanf and EIC would be counted in this site's analysis, and keeping the other benefits of taxes that go to the wealthy out of the picture.... i believe this is deceiving of the tax foundation...and manipulated to show the stance they had already believed in...

Care

Well Care I would hardly agree that monies spent on the FAA or for that matter the SEC, and Treasury are only beneficial to the wealthy. I think that the term wealth redistribution is being confused with the term income redistribution. Let me see if I can try and explain, the FAA you and I and anyone else has access to, and can take part in the benefits that the taxes paid allow us too, the same goes for the other departments you cited. Whereas when someones income is taken because of the amount of income they make in order to give a tax break to someone that does not pay income taxes, is taking that income and redistributing it to a limited few that not all have access too. Now I have heard the arguement that I pay a payroll tax so therefor I pay taxes. well thats true, but most of those taxes go to pay for your FICA deductions i.e. your Social Security and Medicare insurance. and the income taxes you pay state and local when you file your taxes is what we are talking about. So when I say at the end of the year 70% of the taxes in the United States are paid by the top 30% of wage earners that also includes income. The bottom line is this, to take taxes from the majority of tax payers to redistribute income in the form of tax breaks for the small minority of tax payers is is just that income redistribution. As those top 70% are not getting the same benefits. Did they skew the data. well that depends on if you consider those departments you cited as being unfair to the poor. I deal with the FAA daily and can tell you there is NOTHING in the FAA that I would ever associate with the word rich unless you are making reference to the commercial corporate aircraft market and you know that the FAA is the department that makes sure those aircraft are safe and flyable? Not only for the people flying them but for the people on the ground. They also are in the ATC business. Air Traffic Control, another hardly what I would call "wealth" biased department. Frankly Care IMO it is dangerous to punish one group of Americans to benefit others. While on the surface it may be appealing for some to get back at the rich guy, but what we are really doing is to marginalize success, and this country has done way to much of that in the last 20 years.

 

[Turboswede]

The cap is awful for social security. They shouldn't have a cap at all. But i guess people in Congress don't want to change that. If they did, they would lose some of their income from social security. Has any of the presidential candidates talked about getting rid of the cap of Social Security? They need to end the cap of $102k per year before 2010 or this country will be lacking funds to support social security.

Like someone said in this forum, if they had one tax rate and term limits in Washington, you wouldn't have lobbyist protecting something like a SS cap up to a certain income level.

Obama's Plan would eliminate the SS Cap at $250,000.

 

[user_name_guest]

The greatest spending power is the middle class simply because of its size.

Keep the middle class healthy and you will have a healthy economy.

Just focus on keeping the rich class healthy and your living in Reagan's dream world of "trickle down" The worst hoax perpetuated on this country in the economic theories of the rich drive the economy.

The greatest investment power is the top 10%, who provide the spending power to the middle class. Increase the top 10% (in Obama's case, top 5%) and watch the multiplier effect reduce income and jobs for the middle class.

Facts our, we are the number one economic power since then. China opening up their markets are growing fast. I wonder why. Free market. That's how you grow wealth. Socialism like in Europe, that's how you lose jobs or be in the same level of mediocrity.

The rich still pays 70% of government revenue so if they get richer, are government makes bank. Government revenue during Clinton years and Bush years (not this year) were good. BIGGEST PROBLEM: SPENDING UNDER BUSH REGIME. He should have been stingy on Hurricane Katrina, the Iraqi people, Afganis, and other of entitlements to terrorist regimes like Pakistan and billion dollar bailouts to failed institutions in Wall Street.

 

[editec]

A flat tax makes perfect sense in a world of flat incomes.

Anyone here want to sign onto that?

Didn't think so.

 

[DiamondDave]

A flat tax makes perfect sense in a world of flat incomes.

Anyone here want to sign onto that?

Didn't think so.

Flat tax makes sense in a government and culture based on equality

And yes... I want to sign on to that

 

[Care4all]

Well Care I would hardly agree that monies spent on the FAA or for that matter the SEC, and Treasury are only beneficial to the wealthy. I think that the term wealth redistribution is being confused with the term income redistribution. Let me see if I can try and explain, the FAA you and I and anyone else has access to, and can take part in the benefits that the taxes paid allow us too, the same goes for the other departments you cited. Whereas when someones income is taken because of the amount of income they make in order to give a tax break to someone that does not pay income taxes, is taking that income and redistributing it to a limited few that not all have access too. Now I have heard the arguement that I pay a payroll tax so therefor I pay taxes. well thats true, but most of those taxes go to pay for your FICA deductions i.e. your Social Security and Medicare insurance. and the income taxes you pay state and local when you file your taxes is what we are talking about. So when I say at the end of the year 70% of the taxes in the United States are paid by the top 30% of wage earners that also includes income. The bottom line is this, to take taxes from the majority of tax payers to redistribute income in the form of tax breaks for the small minority of tax payers is is just that income redistribution. As those top 70% are not getting the same benefits. Did they skew the data. well that depends on if you consider those departments you cited as being unfair to the poor. I deal with the FAA daily and can tell you there is NOTHING in the FAA that I would ever associate with the word rich unless you are making reference to the commercial corporate aircraft market and you know that the FAA is the department that makes sure those aircraft are safe and flyable? Not only for the people flying them but for the people on the ground. They also are in the ATC business. Air Traffic Control, another hardly what I would call "wealth" biased department. Frankly Care IMO it is dangerous to punish one group of Americans to benefit others. While on the surface it may be appealing for some to get back at the rich guy, but what we are really doing is to marginalize success, and this country has done way to much of that in the last 20 years.

immediately though, you discount that the poor WILL NEVER use those facilities, or only as an exception....shoot, some people that got shipped out to houston after Katrina have still not been able to afford to go back to new orleans, their home...

there are complete sectors of people that will NEVER FLY, while there are other sectors of society that use airplanes all the time...there are people in our society that never own a car and will never use our highways for their own benefit while there are businesses that use them all the time or people in the middle income that would use them all the time...

I do not believe these things, like this and regulating the market and introducing new bankruptcy laws that benefit the banks even more than they did previously and a tax code from here to kingdom come in rules and regs designed at giving one a deduction that has been put in it to advange the wealthiest and some of it the middle class and not the 60% or tax payers that file the short form every year and get no tax deductions or tax credits to take advantage of the supposed progressive irs system...should be discounted.

i don't believe in class warfare either, but i do believe in fairness to its fullest degree...

we will just have to agree to disagree.

care

 

[Navy1960]

immediately though, you discount that the poor WILL NEVER use those facilities, or only as an exception....shoot, some people that got shipped out to houston after Katrina have still not been able to afford to go back to new orleans, their home...

there are complete sectors of people that will NEVER FLY, while there are other sectors of society that use airplanes all the time...there are people in our society that never own a car and will never use our highways for their own benefit while there are businesses that use them all the time or people in the middle income that would use them all the time...

I do not believe these things, like this and regulating the market and introducing new bankruptcy laws that benefit the banks even more than they did previously and a tax code from here to kingdom come in rules and regs designed at giving one a deduction that has been put in it to advange the wealthiest and some of it the middle class and not the 60% or tax payers that file the short form every year and get no tax deductions or tax credits to take advantage of the supposed progressive irs system...should be discounted.

i don't believe in class warfare either, but i do believe in fairness to its fullest degree...


we will just have to agree to disagree.

care

Okay then you twisted my arm we will agree to disagree on this one. lol. I will say this though that even though those programs and departments are not used by all they are available. The income tax system needs to be reformed I completely agree, but it will do not good if the people that manage the revenue i.e. congress and the departments that control that revenue do not spend the money in a wise manner. As you know I always try to cite examples, so here is one that I think will help in that view.

The military has already spent $6.9 billion over the last two decades to develop the Comanche, conceived as a surveillance and attack aircraft with "stealth" capability to make it difficult for an enemy to detect. But only two prototypes have ever been built, and the high-tech chopper was still at least two years away from regular production. The comanche was cancelled by Don Rumsfeld.

What do you suppose that 6.9 billion would have done for transportation for Katrina's displaced persons? Or for that matter had the DoD managed the program better the tax money spent on a program that was never brought into production how far along could several underfunded programs been? This is just one of many many many examples of how the government mismanages tax payer funds. I am huge proponent of upgrading the Military and especially the Aviation sector, however, there is so much graft and mismanagement and it starts in the halls of congress. So when I hear people say , let's TAX the rich because it's all their fault and in some cases the very people who have mismanaged billions upon billions are the ones beating the drums I see them for who they are. Do yourself a favor. if you really want an example of this, google V-22 Osprey and see how much money the govt. has spent in the last 20 years on a program that is just now being implemented due to spending issues, or KC-X Tanker program and see how much money has been spent from the first time the contract was awarded to Boeing on a lease, to the Second time it was awarded to EADS, and now we are the third go around. These are just DoD programs Care, and not DoE, DoJ, DoI, on and on and on.

 

[chopcrazy]

I disagree with this, to a degree...

The reason why, is that this does not include tax monies spent on the very wealthy, where the poor would not benefit...for example the SEC and the treasury dept, and the FAA where a poor person may have never traveled by air for business or vacation in their entire lives...and may have nothing invested in the stock market or in our banks even...they spend all that they make...

This all would be to the advantage of the richer person, while it would NOT be included in this man's chart of expenditures that benefits each tax bracket group....

Can you see this...?

And this is just one aspect of the tax spending that our gvt does that benefits the richer people over those with less....

There is also HUGE no bid contracts and private contracts with private companies where the company and the executives benefit the most out of those gvt contracts, while the chamber maid or restaurant worker would not...

These things are not counted in these kind of charts...

ALL of this is a redistribution of wealth, not just TANF or welfare programs like the earned income credit...while tanf and EIC would be counted in this site's analysis, and keeping the other benefits of taxes that go to the wealthy out of the picture.... i believe this is deceiving of the tax foundation...and manipulated to show the stance they had already believed in...

Care

According to the Fy2008 budget, The taxes and fees the FAA collects offsets its expenditures. http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/aba/budgets_brief/media/bib2008.pdf

The treasury dept responsibilities include printing money which benefits all as well as ensuring the integrity of the money supply (prevent conterfeiting). The secret service is under the treasury dept. and their responsibility includes protecting government officials which is a benefit to all. Lets also not forget the clearing house for checks.

The SEC is suppose to oversee the financial industries. If a person works, more than likely their company needs financial capital. If the markets are not properly regulated, it could be difficult to obtain needed capital to keep a business running.

There might be a case for National Parks and NASA as areas where an individual might not receive a benefit.

 

[Care4all]

According to the Fy2008 budget, The taxes and fees the FAA collects offsets its expenditures. http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/aba/budgets_brief/media/bib2008.pdf

The treasury dept responsibilities include printing money which benefits all as well as ensuring the integrity of the money supply (prevent conterfeiting). The secret service is under the treasury dept. and their responsibility includes protecting government officials which is a benefit to all. Lets also not forget the clearing house for checks.

The SEC is suppose to oversee the financial industries. If a person works, more than likely their company needs financial capital. If the markets are not properly regulated, it could be difficult to obtain needed capital to keep a business running.

There might be a case for National Parks and NASA as areas where an individual might not receive a benefit.

who paid for the help to build the airports? who gave the airlines 15 billion in bailout money after 911? ALL tax payers....

and yes all the depts that regulate our markets and our banks benefit those with money MUCH, MUCH, MUCH MORE than the chamber maid or waitress...or anyone living off of just what they make...i understand there may be some benefit but not nearly to the same degree...

the wealthiest spend billions a year lobbying for legislation that benefits THEM, and would not spend these lobbying monies imo to influence our congressmen's vote if it were not to their great financial advantage...to deny such seems just plain silly to me...?

as the saying goes...''money talks and walks in washington dc''....

yes, the poor get the advantages so to say on some welfare things which is minimal in the overall budget, who gets the rest...is my point.

care

 

[Navy1960]

According to the Fy2008 budget, The taxes and fees the FAA collects offsets its expenditures. http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/aba/budgets_brief/media/bib2008.pdf

The treasury dept responsibilities include printing money which benefits all as well as ensuring the integrity of the money supply (prevent conterfeiting). The secret service is under the treasury dept. and their responsibility includes protecting government officials which is a benefit to all. Lets also not forget the clearing house for checks.

The SEC is suppose to oversee the financial industries. If a person works, more than likely their company needs financial capital. If the markets are not properly regulated, it could be difficult to obtain needed capital to keep a business running.

There might be a case for National Parks and NASA as areas where an individual might not receive a benefit.

I guess it would depend on one's view of NASA there chop and btw welcome to the board. We are having much the same debate over NASA in another thread, I thought I would post just a few of the benefits from NASA that I pointed out in there other thread and keep in mind these are just medical not all of them.

DIGITAL IMAGING BREAST BIOPSY SYSTEM - The LORAD Stereo Guide Breast Biopsy system incorporates advanced Charge Coupled Devices (CCDs) as part of a digital camera system. The resulting device images breast tissue more clearly and efficiently. Known as stereotactic large-core needle biopsy, this nonsurgical system developed with Space Telescope Technology is less traumatic and greatly reduces the pain, scarring, radiation exposure, time, and money associated with surgical biopsies.

BREAST CANCER DETECTION - A solar cell sensor is positioned directly beneath x-ray film, and determines exactly when film has received sufficient radiation and has been exposed to optimum density. Associated electronic equipment then sends a signal to cut off the x-ray source. Reduction of mammography x-ray exposure reduces radiation hazard and doubles the number of patient exams per machine.

LASER ANGIOPLASTY - Laser angioplasty with a "cool" type of laser, caller an excimer laser, does not damage blood vessel walls and offers precise non-surgical cleanings of clogged arteries with extraordinary precision and fewer complications than in balloon angioplasty.

ULTRASOUND SKIN DAMAGE ASSESSMENT - Advanced instrument using NASA ultrasound technology enables immediate assessment of burn damage depth, improving patient treatment, and may save lives in serious burn cases.

HUMAN TISSUE STIMULATOR - Employing NASA satellite technology, the device is implanted in the body to help patient control chronic pain and involuntary motion disorders through electrical stimulation of targeted nerve centers or particular areas of the brain.

COOL SUIT - Custom-made suit derived from space suits circulates coolant through tubes to lower patient's body/ temperature, producing dramatic improvement of symptoms of multiple sclerosis, cerebral palsy, spina bifida and other conditions.

PROGRAMMABLE PACEMAKER - Incorporating multiple NASA technologies, the system consists of the implant and a physician's computer console containing the programming and a data printer. Communicates through wireless telemetry signals.

OCULAR SCREENING - NASA image processing techniques are used to detect eye problems in very young children. An electronic flash from a 35-millimeter camera sends light into the child's eyes, and a photorefractor analyzes the retinal reflexes, producing an image of each eye.

AUTOMATED URINALYSIS - NASA fluid dynamics studies helped development of system that automatically extracts and transfers sediment from urine sample to an analyzer microscope, replacing the manual centrifuge method.

MEDICAL GAS ANALYZER - Astronaut-monitoring technology used to develop system to monitor operating rooms for analysis of anesthetic gasses and measurement of oxygen, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen concentrations to assure proper breathing environment for surgery patients.

VOICE-CONTROLLED WHEELCHAIR - NASA teleoperator and robot technology used to develop chair and manipulator that respond to 35 one-word voice commands utilizing a minicomputer to help patient perform daily tasks, like picking up packages, opening doors, and turning on appliances.

Other spinoffs in this area include: Arteriosclerosis detection, ultrasound scanners, automatic insulin pump, portable x-ray device, invisible braces, dental arch wire, palate surgery technology, clean room apparel, implantable heart aid, MRI, bone analyzer, and cataract surgery tools.

Thats just in Aerospace medicine, that is not where near the benefits reaped in computers, transportation, or other commercial areas.

 

[chopcrazy]

who paid for the help to build the airports? who gave the airlines 15 billion in bailout money after 911? ALL tax payers....

and yes all the depts that regulate our markets and our banks benefit those with money MUCH, MUCH, MUCH MORE than the chamber maid or waitress...or anyone living off of just what they make...i understand there may be some benefit but not nearly to the same degree...

the wealthiest spend billions a year lobbying for legislation that benefits THEM, and would not spend these lobbying monies imo to influence our congressmen's vote if it were not to their great financial advantage...to deny such seems just plain silly to me...?

as the saying goes...''money talks and walks in washington dc''....

yes, the poor get the advantages so to say on some welfare things which is minimal in the overall budget, who gets the rest...is my point.

care

airports built using bonds issued by the locality. Each locality is different on how the bonds get paid...increase in sales tax or increase in hotel/car rental tax.

the airline bailout was $5B cash + $10B loan guarantees. from my understanding, the loans were not easy to get.

no disagreements here about "money talks and walks in washington dc"