Only Liberals Are Pro-Liberty

I would vote for the first conservative who doesn't have a "conservative, read - religious" social agenda.

I happen to enjoy conservative fiscal policy.
 
Conservatives have no claim on being pro liberty in light of their RW christian social agenda, walk the walk, dump the bible thumpers, the MIC and the drug warriors and then talk of promoting liberty.

actually nothing happened in the first 5 million years of human history until Christianity; so its an odd thing to be against. Is the liberal against civilization itself? It did not occur to mankind for example to " love thy neighbor" until Christianity promoted the idea. Is that really over your head??
 
Last edited:
Conservatives have no claim on being pro liberty in light of their RW christian social agenda, walk the walk, dump the bible thumpers, the MIC and the drug warriors and then talk of promoting liberty.

actually nothing happened in the first 5 million years of human history until Christianity; so its an odd thing to be against. It did not occur to mankind for example to " love thy neighbor" until Christianity promoted the idea. Is that really over your head??

Christians did not invent the golden rule, what a crock.
 
Conservatives have no claim on being pro liberty in light of their RW christian social agenda, walk the walk, dump the bible thumpers, the MIC and the drug warriors and then talk of promoting liberty.

actually nothing happened in the first 5 million years of human history until Christianity; so its an odd thing to be against. Is the liberal against civilization itself? It did not occur to mankind for example to " love thy neighbor" until Christianity promoted the idea. Is that really over your head??

:eusa_liar:

Keep lying to yourself, maybe even you'll believe it eventually.
 
I am not against Christianity but it has no special place in secular politics.
 
Toro and Shackles reveal themselves as libertarians, confusing anti-government with pro-liberty. That was pretty predictable w/r/t Shackles but Toro's posting history is more confusing.

Don't confuse argument with personal philosophy. It's common and understandable, but it is incorrect.

I'm going to skip to your last paragraph.

Again, we see the basic libertarian fallacy: that government = non-liberty. The reality, however, is that having some power over you that can tell you what to do, and make you serve its interests instead of your own -- THAT is non-liberty. And it doesn't matter whether the power in question is government or a private power. What matters is that you're under it's thumb (and hence unfree) or not (and hence free).

The fallacy of this argument is that almost all transactions and interactions occur within some sort of power structure. Even the most mundane. A married man wants to have sex with his wife but his wife says "no." The man is denied his "liberty" because his wife has power over him to deny what he wants. He isn't free. His wife denied him his liberty. She has power over him. I want to watch the Rangers tonight but don't want to pay the $75 for a ticket. MSG is sold out anyways, so I can't get in. My "liberty" to watch a live hockey game is denied by the Rangers who are charging me too much and MSG has denied me my liberty by not building a bigger stadium. I'm not free. The Rangers have power over me to deny me what I want. Ergo, because virtually every interaction and transaction involves some sort of power structure, there is no liberty. And that includes liberals. I want to dump my toxic waste in the river but the liberals who passed environmental legislation prohibiting me from doing so are denying me my liberty. The government is denying me my liberty because they have the power over me to stop me from doing what I want.

Thus, if you define "liberty" as being subject to power of someone else - as you do - then there is no liberty under almost any circumstance.
 
Ah, it's all about the alleged freedom to hire someone to terminate the life of your unborn baby. Liberals define the stabbing of a full term baby in the back of the head and sucking out it's brain as "reproductive rights" and anybody who is against that type of manslaughter is seen in their minds as being against true liberty.

Medically a baby is not a baby until birth.

Tell that to the people on Death Row. You're against one thing you perceive as murder and for something that everyone else perceives as murder.

A baby isn't a baby until it's born?
What is it? A puppy?

The death penalty is murder?
 
Only Liberals Are Pro-Liberty

We can at least say that Liberals have been the greater advocates of individual liberty where conservatives, for the most part, have been advocates of greater government authority with regard to restricting or otherwise preempting Constitutional rights.

We see this in conservatives' opposition to privacy rights with regard to abortion, opposition to 4th Amendment rights with regard to search and seizure issues concerning ‘fighting crime’ and ‘terrorism,’ opposition to 5th and 6th Amendment due process rights with regard to undocumented aliens, and opposition to 14th Amendment equal protection rights with regard to same-sex marriage.

From Brown v. Board of Education (1954) concerning segregation to Lawrence v. Texas (2003) concerning equal protection rights for gays, and scores of other similar cases in between, conservatives have stood on the side of greater government authority at the expense of individual liberty.

It is indeed a record of shame.
 
Ah, it's all about the alleged freedom to hire someone to terminate the life of your unborn baby. Liberals define the stabbing of a full term baby in the back of the head and sucking out it's brain as "reproductive rights" and anybody who is against that type of manslaughter is seen in their minds as being against true liberty.

Medically a baby is not a baby until birth.

Tell that to the people on Death Row. You're against one thing you perceive as murder and for something that everyone else perceives as murder.

A baby isn't a baby until it's born?
What is it? A puppy?

The death penalty is murder?

It is called a fetus.

Or would you deign to extend your definition of un-born baby to the egg and the sperm that constitute it.
 
Conservatives have no claim on being pro liberty in light of their RW christian social agenda, walk the walk, dump the bible thumpers, the MIC and the drug warriors and then talk of promoting liberty.

actually nothing happened in the first 5 million years of human history until Christianity; so its an odd thing to be against. It did not occur to mankind for example to " love thy neighbor" until Christianity promoted the idea. Is that really over your head??

Christians did not invent the golden rule, what a crock.

IF I said they invented it I'll pay you $10,000. Bet? See why we are sure a liberal will have a low IQ?
 
actually nothing happened in the first 5 million years of human history until Christianity; so its an odd thing to be against. It did not occur to mankind for example to " love thy neighbor" until Christianity promoted the idea. Is that really over your head??

Christians did not invent the golden rule, what a crock.

IF I said they invented it I'll pay you $10,000. Bet? See why we are sure a liberal will have a low IQ?

You just said morality didn't exist and advancement didn't exist until Christianity.


Which is fucking hilarious.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
Medically a baby is not a baby until birth.

Tell that to the people on Death Row. You're against one thing you perceive as murder and for something that everyone else perceives as murder.

A baby isn't a baby until it's born?
What is it? A puppy?

The death penalty is murder?

It is called a fetus.

Or would you deign to extend your definition of un-born baby to the egg and the sperm that constitute it.

people don't name their sperm or eggs, but they do name their babies. Doctors are taught that a couple will mourn the loss of what you call a fetus. They are not taught that people will mourn the loss of a sperm or egg.
 
A baby isn't a baby until it's born?
What is it? A puppy?

The death penalty is murder?

It is called a fetus.

Or would you deign to extend your definition of un-born baby to the egg and the sperm that constitute it.

people don't name their sperm or eggs, but they do name their babies. Doctors are taught that a couple will mourn the loss of what you call a fetus. They are not taught that people will mourn the loss of a sperm or egg.

Why?

I'll tell you why, because of the idea. Not because of the facts.

Humans are emotional creatures, they care little for truth if it goes against what they believe.
 
You just said morality didn't exist and advancement didn't exist until Christianity.

Which is fucking hilarious.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

so then do you take the bet or run away with your liberal tail between your legs once again????
 
Medically a baby is not a baby until birth.

Tell that to the people on Death Row. You're against one thing you perceive as murder and for something that everyone else perceives as murder.

A baby isn't a baby until it's born?
What is it? A puppy?

The death penalty is murder?

It is called a fetus.

Or would you deign to extend your definition of un-born baby to the egg and the sperm that constitute it.

A baby 39 weeks after conception is a fetus deserving no constitutional protection?

Is the death penalty murder?
 
A baby isn't a baby until it's born?
What is it? A puppy?

The death penalty is murder?

It is called a fetus.

Or would you deign to extend your definition of un-born baby to the egg and the sperm that constitute it.

A baby 39 weeks after conception is a fetus deserving no constitutional protection?

Is the death penalty murder?

Why don't you show me the statistics on abortions at 39 weeks.
 
Why?

I'll tell you why, because of the idea. Not because of the facts.

Humans are emotional creatures, they care little for truth if it goes against what they believe.

if you believe in loveless sex with strangers and killing the million or so babies that result each year you believe in the modern loveless liberal world. THe 1950 Republican dictated that you love the person with whom you had sex and love the child that resulted. Is liberalism progress or the death of love? Take a guess. Is the emotion of love evil to a liberal?
 
Last edited:

Forum List

Back
Top