One of every five men 25 to 54 isn't working.

dvinman

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Saturday, May 1, 2010
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WALL STREET JOURNAL

The betting is that the Labor Department's Friday snapshot of the job market will show that employers added workers in April, perhaps even that the unemployment rate fell.

That would be good news, but not good enough. It's hard to exaggerate how bad the job market is. Here's one arresting fact: One of every five men 25 to 54 isn't working.

Even more alarming, the jobs that many of these men, or those like them, once had in construction, factories and offices aren't coming back. "A good guess…is that when the economy recovers five years from now, one in six men who are 25 to 54 will not be working," Lawrence Summers, the president's economic adviser, said the other day.

This is not one of the many things that can be blamed on subprime lending, inept regulators or Goldman Sachs. "The Great Recession has reinforced prevailing labor market trends that were under way long before the recession," David Autor, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology economist, observed in a recent paper commissioned by two Democratic-leaning think tanks, the Center for American Progress and the Hamilton Project.

Demand for workers who haven't much education -- which includes many men, particularly minority-group men -- is waning. A shrinking fraction of them are working. Some are looking for work; some have given up. Some are collecting disability benefits or an early-retirement pension. Some are just idle. On average, surveys find, the unemployed in the U.S. spend 40 minutes a day looking for work and 3 hours and 20 minutes a day watching TV.

For 50 years, the fraction of men with jobs in what once were prime earning years has been trending down. Over the same decades, the share of women who work has been rising, a significant social change that lately has cushioned the blow of Dad's unemployment for many couples.

Women have suffered less in this recession. They were more likely to be in health care and other jobs that weren't hit as hard as construction and manufacturing. They are increasingly likely to have the education so often required to get or keep a good job these days.

That's good for their families. But will there be good-paying jobs in the future for prime-age men, particularly the ones who don't go to college?

Americans have worried for decades that the economy won't produce enough jobs. But the economy always provided. As farm jobs were eliminated by mechanization, factories hired more. As factories increased productivity and moved work offshore, more Americans got jobs in health care and other services. And the economists said to all those who had been worried about perennial, persistent unemployment: We told you so!

Yet nothing in the textbooks says that the supply and demand for workers will intersect at a wage that is socially acceptable. At the high end, demand for skilled workers and those who rely on their brains will return when the economy does. At the other end, jobs in restaurants, nursing homes and health clubs -- the jobs that are hard to automate or outsource -- will come back, too.

In the middle, there will be some jobs for workers without much education, for the plumbers, electricians and software technicians. But not enough to go around.

Men who in an earlier era would have been making good money on the assembly line are, and will be, working security or greeting at Wal-Mart, jobs that almost anyone can do and thus jobs that don't pay well.

If they're working at all. Today, 6.5 million workers have been out of work for six months or more, and that includes only those who are still looking for work. History suggests the longer they're unemployed, the less likely they are ever to work again. Faster economic growth would help a lot, but won't suffice.

One way to resist these market forces is to reduce the supply of workers who aren't in demand and increase the supply of workers who are. That is, educate more and better: Fix K-12 schools, improve worker-training programs, strengthen community colleges, give more aid to college students. All this is wise, but most of it will take a long time.

Another option is on the demand side: Force employers to be less efficient so they have to hire more, or limit imports of goods that threaten jobs of less educated, prime-wage men -- solutions with unwelcome side effects.

The government, Mr. Summers said, can increase demand for labor in the short run. Spending more public money on infrastructure, he argued, will both strengthen the economy for the future and employ out-of-work construction workers.

A third option is surrender to market forces and tax the winners to subsidize the losers. Sending checks to idle men is unappealing, but the government could do more to supplement wages (or health insurance costs) for those who work at low wages.

Each approach has shortcomings. So does doing nothing. Sidelining a huge part of an entire generation of men would waste human potential, create economic misery for their families and fuel political discontent.
 
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With our population increasing and more and more jobs going overseas, we can probably count on 10% unemployment becoming the new norm.

Welcome to the 21st Century.
 
" a wage that is socially acceptable"
IOW, people do not want to work.
A wage is determined by the market, supply and demand.
Americans are becoming fat and lazy and uneducated. Foreigners come with a range of talents from no skills to advanced engineering degrees. How is it that these foreigners come and get jobs?
Work ethic.
 
Saturday, May 1, 2010
provided by
WALL STREET JOURNAL

The betting is that the Labor Department's Friday snapshot of the job market will show that employers added workers in April, perhaps even that the unemployment rate fell.

That would be good news, but not good enough. It's hard to exaggerate how bad the job market is. Here's one arresting fact: One of every five men 25 to 54 isn't working.

Even more alarming, the jobs that many of these men, or those like them, once had in construction, factories and offices aren't coming back. "A good guess…is that when the economy recovers five years from now, one in six men who are 25 to 54 will not be working," Lawrence Summers, the president's economic adviser, said the other day.

This is not one of the many things that can be blamed on subprime lending, inept regulators or Goldman Sachs. "The Great Recession has reinforced prevailing labor market trends that were under way long before the recession," David Autor, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology economist, observed in a recent paper commissioned by two Democratic-leaning think tanks, the Center for American Progress and the Hamilton Project.

Demand for workers who haven't much education -- which includes many men, particularly minority-group men -- is waning. A shrinking fraction of them are working. Some are looking for work; some have given up. Some are collecting disability benefits or an early-retirement pension. Some are just idle. On average, surveys find, the unemployed in the U.S. spend 40 minutes a day looking for work and 3 hours and 20 minutes a day watching TV.

For 50 years, the fraction of men with jobs in what once were prime earning years has been trending down. Over the same decades, the share of women who work has been rising, a significant social change that lately has cushioned the blow of Dad's unemployment for many couples.

Women have suffered less in this recession. They were more likely to be in health care and other jobs that weren't hit as hard as construction and manufacturing. They are increasingly likely to have the education so often required to get or keep a good job these days.

That's good for their families. But will there be good-paying jobs in the future for prime-age men, particularly the ones who don't go to college?

Americans have worried for decades that the economy won't produce enough jobs. But the economy always provided. As farm jobs were eliminated by mechanization, factories hired more. As factories increased productivity and moved work offshore, more Americans got jobs in health care and other services. And the economists said to all those who had been worried about perennial, persistent unemployment: We told you so!

Yet nothing in the textbooks says that the supply and demand for workers will intersect at a wage that is socially acceptable. At the high end, demand for skilled workers and those who rely on their brains will return when the economy does. At the other end, jobs in restaurants, nursing homes and health clubs -- the jobs that are hard to automate or outsource -- will come back, too.

In the middle, there will be some jobs for workers without much education, for the plumbers, electricians and software technicians. But not enough to go around.

Men who in an earlier era would have been making good money on the assembly line are, and will be, working security or greeting at Wal-Mart, jobs that almost anyone can do and thus jobs that don't pay well.

If they're working at all. Today, 6.5 million workers have been out of work for six months or more, and that includes only those who are still looking for work. History suggests the longer they're unemployed, the less likely they are ever to work again. Faster economic growth would help a lot, but won't suffice.

One way to resist these market forces is to reduce the supply of workers who aren't in demand and increase the supply of workers who are. That is, educate more and better: Fix K-12 schools, improve worker-training programs, strengthen community colleges, give more aid to college students. All this is wise, but most of it will take a long time.

Another option is on the demand side: Force employers to be less efficient so they have to hire more, or limit imports of goods that threaten jobs of less educated, prime-wage men -- solutions with unwelcome side effects.

The government, Mr. Summers said, can increase demand for labor in the short run. Spending more public money on infrastructure, he argued, will both strengthen the economy for the future and employ out-of-work construction workers.

A third option is surrender to market forces and tax the winners to subsidize the losers. Sending checks to idle men is unappealing, but the government could do more to supplement wages (or health insurance costs) for those who work at low wages.

Each approach has shortcomings. So does doing nothing. Sidelining a huge part of an entire generation of men would waste human potential, create economic misery for their families and fuel political discontent.

please include a link, you can now do that.
 
Why don't we just push for a set of rules in the market place that castrates the current requirements of a guy to hire 3 lawyers, 2 accountants and an insurance broker before he even THINKS about starting his own business? :eusa_think:
 
Why don't we just push for a set of rules in the market place that castrates the current requirements of a guy to hire 3 lawyers, 2 accountants and an insurance broker before he even THINKS about starting his own business? :eusa_think:
I own 3 businesses. If I was to start a fourth and not consult my attorney, accountant and insurance agent I am a damn fool.
No rule forces me to do any of it. There are regulations on my detective agency for insurance but I would do that anyway.
 
" a wage that is socially acceptable"
Foreigners come with a range of talents from no skills to advanced engineering degrees. How is it that these foreigners come and get jobs? Work ethic.
That's possible....as-well-as, some countries are much-more-Progressive than others, such as "Free government-paid education for all Norwegian citizens through the doctorate level."

"The Norwegian inflation rate is under 2%, and their unemployment rate is the lowest in Europehttp://www.sonic.net/~doretk/Issues/97-04 APR/readspeak.html."​
 
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Why don't we just push for a set of rules in the market place that castrates the current requirements of a guy to hire 3 lawyers, 2 accountants and an insurance broker before he even THINKS about starting his own business? :eusa_think:
Who dictates such current requirements?????

:confused:
 
" a wage that is socially acceptable"
Foreigners come with a range of talents from no skills to advanced engineering degrees. How is it that these foreigners come and get jobs? Work ethic.
That's possible....as-well-as, some countries are much-more-Progressive than others, such as "Free government-paid education for all Norwegian citizens through the doctorate level."

"The Norwegian inflation rate is under 2%, and their unemployment rate is the lowest in Europehttp://www.sonic.net/~doretk/Issues/97-04 APR/readspeak.html."​

Ahhh... another idiot winger who believes the government sponsored education in less free 'progressive' countries is free...

Perhaps you should start looking at their tax rates, fuck tard

Not to mention your source information, which is unsubstantiated, is from an opinion letter... from APRIL OF 1997

busted again
 
Lets just see about little norway... government has as high as a 1/3 stake in private business... something government should not have... they boast a flat tax rate of 28%, but don't advertise the extra taxes they like to add in.... 9% extra for upper-middle class and an extra 12% for the wealthy... a social security type tax that is ~8%... a VAT of 25% and 14% on food and drink.. a 1.1% wealth tax.. a death tax over 6% for anything over ~55K and 10% over 133K

Do the math, fucker
 
" a wage that is socially acceptable"
Foreigners come with a range of talents from no skills to advanced engineering degrees. How is it that these foreigners come and get jobs? Work ethic.
That's possible....as-well-as, some countries are much-more-Progressive than others, such as "Free government-paid education for all Norwegian citizens through the doctorate level."

"The Norwegian inflation rate is under 2%, and their unemployment rate is the lowest in Europehttp://www.sonic.net/~doretk/Issues/97-04 APR/readspeak.html."​

Ahhh... another idiot winger who believes the government sponsored education in less free 'progressive' countries is free...

Perhaps you should start looking at their tax rates, fuck tard

Not to mention your source information, which is unsubstantiated, is from an opinion letter... from APRIL OF 1997

busted again

What do you mean, busted again? The Norwegian worker has a far better deal than does an American worker.


http://www.skatteetaten.no/upload/Brosjyrer og bok/Brosjyre-Working_in_Norway.pdf
The National Insurance
Scheme
As a rule all persons working in Norway
are automatically insured under the
Norwegian National Insurance Scheme
from their first day of work. You can
obtain further information at your
local office of the Labour and Welfare
Service (NAV), or at your place of work
if you do not live in Norway.
As an employee you are obliged to pay
a national insurance contribution.
This amounts to 7.8 per cent of your
wages, and is deducted together with
tax withholdings. If you do not pay tax
to Norway, the national insurance
contribution is to be paid to your local
NAV office.

7.8% is a lot less than what I and my employer pay for my health insurance. Not only that, the retirement is better for Norwegian workers than for those here in the US. And, after the first two years in industry, they get six weeks paid vacation a year, which is portable from job to job.

Perhaps you should really research the claims you make before mindlessly yapping.
 
" a wage that is socially acceptable"
IOW, people do not want to work.
A wage is determined by the market, supply and demand.
Americans are becoming fat and lazy and uneducated. Foreigners come with a range of talents from no skills to advanced engineering degrees. How is it that these foreigners come and get jobs?
Work ethic.

This is a common though incorrect view by many of our aging population. In reality college enrollment has been on a rise.

In October 2009, 70.1 percent of 2009 high school graduates were enrolled in
colleges or universities, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today.
This was a historical high for the series, which began in 1959. Recent high
school graduates not enrolled in college in October 2009 were more likely than
enrolled graduates to be in the labor force (70.0 compared with 42.1 percent).

These Stats. are from the "United States Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics"

Don't worry Gandpa, young Americans are looking at the failures of their parents and trying not to make the same mistakes.
 
That's possible....as-well-as, some countries are much-more-Progressive than others, such as "Free government-paid education for all Norwegian citizens through the doctorate level."

Ahhh... another idiot winger who believes the government sponsored education in less free 'progressive' countries is free...

Perhaps you should start looking at their tax rates, fuck tard

Not to mention your source information, which is unsubstantiated, is from an opinion letter... from APRIL OF 1997

busted again

What do you mean, busted again? The Norwegian worker has a far better deal than does an American worker.


http://www.skatteetaten.no/upload/Brosjyrer og bok/Brosjyre-Working_in_Norway.pdf
The National Insurance
Scheme
As a rule all persons working in Norway
are automatically insured under the
Norwegian National Insurance Scheme
from their first day of work. You can
obtain further information at your
local office of the Labour and Welfare
Service (NAV), or at your place of work
if you do not live in Norway.
As an employee you are obliged to pay
a national insurance contribution.
This amounts to 7.8 per cent of your
wages, and is deducted together with
tax withholdings. If you do not pay tax
to Norway, the national insurance
contribution is to be paid to your local
NAV office.

7.8% is a lot less than what I and my employer pay for my health insurance. Not only that, the retirement is better for Norwegian workers than for those here in the US. And, after the first two years in industry, they get six weeks paid vacation a year, which is portable from job to job.

Perhaps you should really research the claims you make before mindlessly yapping.

Perhaps look beyond at the taxation and confiscation Norway does BEYOND the little snip you gave... easily found on numerous web sites

And if you are paying 7.8% for your personal health insurance... I laugh

The Norwegian worker is fucked royally from their governmental and tax system
 
with our population increasing and more and more jobs going overseas, we can probably count on 10% unemployment becoming the new norm.

Welcome to the 21st century.

especially with 12-30 million illegals onboard.
 
Lets just see about little norway... government has as high as a 1/3 stake in private business... something government should not have... they boast a flat tax rate of 28%, but don't advertise the extra taxes they like to add in.... 9% extra for upper-middle class and an extra 12% for the wealthy... a social security type tax that is ~8%... a VAT of 25% and 14% on food and drink.. a 1.1% wealth tax.. a death tax over 6% for anything over ~55K and 10% over 133K

Do the math, fucker

Did the math, assfuck. They also have a higher standard of living than we do. They live longer, and healthier than we do. And the other statistics generally favor their average citizen in comparison with ours.

A COMPARISON BETWEEN THE US AND OTHER RICH NATIONS

Size of Middle Class (More):

Japan 90.0%
Sweden 79.0
Norway 73.4
Germany 70.1
Switzerland 67.2
Netherlands 62.5
Canada 58.5
United Kingdom 58.5
United States 53.7

Poverty level (More):

United States 17.1%
Canada 12.6
United Kingdom 9.7
Switzerland 8.5
Germany 5.6
Sweden 5.3
Norway 5.2

Children under the poverty level:

United States 22.4%
Canada 15.5
United Kingdom 9.3
Switzerland 7.8
Sweden 5.0
Germany 4.9
Norway 4.8

Deaths from malnutrition (per million):

Men Women
United States 7 13
France 4 9
Canada 5 7
Japan 2 1
United Kingdom 1 2
Norway 0 1
 
Lets just see about little norway... government has as high as a 1/3 stake in private business... something government should not have... they boast a flat tax rate of 28%, but don't advertise the extra taxes they like to add in.... 9% extra for upper-middle class and an extra 12% for the wealthy... a social security type tax that is ~8%... a VAT of 25% and 14% on food and drink.. a 1.1% wealth tax.. a death tax over 6% for anything over ~55K and 10% over 133K

Do the math, fucker

Did the math, assfuck. They also have a higher standard of living than we do. They live longer, and healthier than we do. And the other statistics generally favor their average citizen in comparison with ours.

A COMPARISON BETWEEN THE US AND OTHER RICH NATIONS

Size of Middle Class (More):

Japan 90.0%
Sweden 79.0
Norway 73.4
Germany 70.1
Switzerland 67.2
Netherlands 62.5
Canada 58.5
United Kingdom 58.5
United States 53.7

Poverty level (More):

United States 17.1%
Canada 12.6
United Kingdom 9.7
Switzerland 8.5
Germany 5.6
Sweden 5.3
Norway 5.2

Children under the poverty level:

United States 22.4%
Canada 15.5
United Kingdom 9.3
Switzerland 7.8
Sweden 5.0
Germany 4.9
Norway 4.8

Deaths from malnutrition (per million):

Men Women
United States 7 13
France 4 9
Canada 5 7
Japan 2 1
United Kingdom 1 2
Norway 0 1

Life expectancy is factored on many things, not just the style of government...

And where you did not do the math is on even the largest portions of taxation and confiscation by the government... and the fact that most industry is partly owned by the government (hardly call that a basis of freedom)

You may think that the average person should owe more than half of what they earn to the government (let alone Norway double taxing on accumulated wealth).... but that does fit in with your all powerful government, left wing ideology
 
This is what comes of stupid trade and tax policies, folks.

Blame both parties for it.

I work at about 10% of my capacity.

AT my age I never expect to again be fully employed, either unless I can find the funding to expand my project beyond its current operations.

I could easily put ten people to work tomorrow if I could know I had the money fund them for about five years.

After that, Rosetta's operations would be so complex that we'd probably need 50 people to manage.

I think I need about $ 4 mil to get the operation going like it ough to be going.

Feel free to contact me if you're loaded and seeking to change the world for the better.
 
Why don't we just push for a set of rules in the market place that castrates the current requirements of a guy to hire 3 lawyers, 2 accountants and an insurance broker before he even THINKS about starting his own business? :eusa_think:
I own 3 businesses. If I was to start a fourth and not consult my attorney, accountant and insurance agent I am a damn fool.
No rule forces me to do any of it. There are regulations on my detective agency for insurance but I would do that anyway.

You missed my point, Gadawg... I'm thinking that if the rule book were a bit thinner, the boys and girls who have the inclination to start a business but can't afford attorneys and accountants yet would have the same shot at success as do the wealthy.

It is my opinion that having rules as complicated as we do today has ham-strung the American Entrepreneurial Spirit that used to create opportunity out of thin air and good ideas.

Make it possible for the average Joe who does NOT have an attorney on retainer to compete.
 
Why don't we just push for a set of rules in the market place that castrates the current requirements of a guy to hire 3 lawyers, 2 accountants and an insurance broker before he even THINKS about starting his own business? :eusa_think:
Who dictates such current requirements?????

:confused:

On top of that heap would be congress, followed closely by federal regulators, then by state, county and local governments.

Does anyone actually understand just the Tax Code that they are subject to, let alone the rest of the regulatory environment that chokes competition around here?​
 

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