One in eight. Eliminating employer health care plans

[MaggieMae]

With employers ditching their plans, there will soon be no need for companies like Blue Cross to administer them. This will be a single payer system in 2 years.

Non-sequitur.

Sorry my post surpasses your understanding.

Sometimes people think a thread should be restricted ONLY to what THEY want to talk about, forgetting it's forum, and unless a comment is way off topic, need to quit bitching.

 

[MaggieMae]

The health insurance companies will be out of buisness if Obama gets his way.

If that's a bet, I'll take it and give you great odds. They're already raising their premiums to outrageous levels in order to cover any anticipated loss of profits in 2014. Ah capitalism. Gotta love it. It will be a cold day in hell before health insurance companies fold as an industry. It's far too lucrative, and they'll figure out a way to keep their profits high. Trust me.

Nope.. I won't take that bet ,because Obamacare is going to be repealed when we kick his ass out of office. Then real reform will come, more competition and lower costs for all.

How will health insurance become more competitive? Unless an insurer has standard compliance with every state law and regulations it intends to do business in, a person can't transfer a health insurance policy from one state to another with the same company. Standardizing those compliances was was one item in "Obamacare" that was removed from the bill which would indeed have made it more competitive.

 

[Jroc]

If that's a bet, I'll take it and give you great odds. They're already raising their premiums to outrageous levels in order to cover any anticipated loss of profits in 2014. Ah capitalism. Gotta love it. It will be a cold day in hell before health insurance companies fold as an industry. It's far too lucrative, and they'll figure out a way to keep their profits high. Trust me.

Nope.. I won't take that bet ,because Obamacare is going to be repealed when we kick his ass out of office. Then real reform will come, more competition and lower costs for all.

How will health insurance become more competitive? Unless an insurer has standard compliance with every state law and regulations it intends to do business in, a person can't transfer a health insurance policy from one state to another with the same company. Standardizing those compliances was was one item in "Obamacare" that was removed from the bill which would indeed have made it more competitive.

You can't? Why not? Competition across state lines, plus get rid all these stupid mandates. I love the California health insurance that must cover sex change operations, that’s a good one, also TORT reform. We’ve been through all this here on the board

 

[Political Junky]

One in eight small businesses get insurance cancellations after ObamaCare passage « Hot Air

Which is really what needs to happen. This has been in the cards for a long time, and while it may be painful, it could point us toward a real solution. Pushing us all into dependency on our employers for our health care was a horrible idea in the first place, and in general, the low deductible, high premium insurance policy just isn't viable.

But what you're missing is that Obamacare is actually intent on reversing this trend. It's designed to keep people dependent on their employers - or better yet (from the state's point of view) the government - for the most crucial need they have, their very health.

Health care 'reform', like pretty much any government agenda these days, is about controlling people first and foremost. The insurance industry lobbied vigorously to be 'at the table' and in on whatever the state cooks up. But the last priority is the welfare (and most especially, the freedom) of the average citizen. We are pawns in their corporatist game and little more.

The health insurance companies will be out of buisness if Obama gets his way.

Unfortunately no.
Obama caved on single payer, which would have ended private insurance companies. Because of competition, they wouldn't survive.

 

[Lovebears65]

Are we jumping the gun?

Aren't the majority of these changes not set to take effect until 2014?
(serious questions)




That being said, my company was granted a waiver and I am tickled shitless because the plan that I have ROCKS!

Don't worry "you can keep your insurance if you like it"

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tTgr3fG_tg&feature=related]‪Obama Lies about Health Care: Keep Your Insurance‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

This is already not true. My friend had to change her doctor because of the healthcare law. Her doctor no longer excepted her insurance. So once again Obummer lies.

 

[Greenbeard]

If Congress couldn't be bothered, do you really expect the average voter to take the time?

The five minutes it takes to check the veracity of something read on hotair? Yes, I do. I realize that's five minutes that could be spent on meaningless tit-for-tat intellectual masturbation on political websites (or real masturbation on non-political websites) but, well, sometimes the responsibilities of citizenship entail sacrifices.

With employers ditching their plans, there will soon be no need for companies like Blue Cross to administer them. This will be a single payer system in 2 years.

1) Employers are not ditching their plans.

2) If large-scale abandonment of health insurance plans by employers did occur, the result would be that employees would have to buy their own health insurance plans from private insurers in the individual market, not from some imaginary single-payer government insurer that doesn't exist.

You can't? Why not? Competition across state lines, plus get rid all these stupid mandates. I love the California health insurance that must cover sex change operations, that’s a good one, also TORT reform. We’ve been through all this here on the board

What does any of this have to do with waiting for Obama to leave office? All of this can be done by your state government right now. In fact, you're better off acting now rather than hoping that you'll continue to have undivided Republican control of your state government in future legislative sessions. If you don't like your state's tort laws, change them. If don't like your state's health insurance laws, change them.

This is already not true. My friend had to change her doctor because of the healthcare law. Her doctor no longer excepted her insurance. So once again Obummer lies.

Provider networks change frequently.

 

[Big Fitz]

If we're lucky in a few years it can be 100% of businesses and 100% of government and force ourselves back into a REAL free market system. Watch prices plummet if you can shop around even out of state.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If Congress couldn't be bothered, do you really expect the average voter to take the time?

The five minutes it takes to check the veracity of something read on hotair? Yes, I do. I realize that's five minutes that could be spent on meaningless tit-for-tat intellectual masturbation on political websites (or real masturbation on non-political websites) but, well, sometimes the responsibilities of citizenship entail sacrifices.

Would you like to know why HotAir is one of the few Conservative leaning sites I read regularly?

From the link in the OP:

There are some legitimate questions about this survey. Many of the questions asked are of opinions and projections rather than already-known events. The sample size is light as well, with only 750 businesses surveyed by NFIB. That’s not an inadequate sample for a national survey, but it’s not exactly robust either.

They actually understand how surveys work, and point out the problems with the ones they post.

With you being a shill for the DNC I understand why you cannot openly admit the truth, but that does not mean you can get away with lies.

 

[Greenbeard]

Would you like to know why HotAir is one of the few Conservative leaning sites I read regularly?

From the link in the OP:

There are some legitimate questions about this survey. Many of the questions asked are of opinions and projections rather than already-known events. The sample size is light as well, with only 750 businesses surveyed by NFIB. That’s not an inadequate sample for a national survey, but it’s not exactly robust either.

They actually understand how surveys work, and point out the problems with the ones they post.

Ah, that explains:

This was a survey of businesses with health insurance what they are doing as a result of Obamacare. That means that all of them had insurance before, and 12% of them eliminated it because of the new costs.

Thanks!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Would you like to know why HotAir is one of the few Conservative leaning sites I read regularly?

From the link in the OP:

There are some legitimate questions about this survey. Many of the questions asked are of opinions and projections rather than already-known events. The sample size is light as well, with only 750 businesses surveyed by NFIB. That’s not an inadequate sample for a national survey, but it’s not exactly robust either.

They actually understand how surveys work, and point out the problems with the ones they post.

Ah, that explains:

This was a survey of businesses with health insurance what they are doing as a result of Obamacare. That means that all of them had insurance before, and 12% of them eliminated it because of the new costs.

Thanks!

You think they got it wrong?

Still, the core question involves events that have already transpired, which is either cancellations or notices of cancellations from insurers. If 14 12% of the sample reported those outcomes, that means that 90 businesses have been either cut off or warned of cutoffs on their existing plans, with an impact averaging somewhere around 4500 employees. That’s a significant result, especially given the “you can keep your health-care plan” rhetoric coming from the White House while urging passage of ObamaCare.

 

[Greenbeard]

You think they got it wrong?

As always, you're hopelessly confused.

The number of small employers offering employee health insurance has not changed appreciably in the last 12 months, the post-PPACA passage time frame. About 1 percent of those who now offer health insurance claim that they added it as an employee benefit within the last year (Q. 3). In contrast, 4 percent of those now without employee health insurance dropped the benefit in the same time frame (Q. 3a). These changes are relatively small, a net decline of about 2 percentage points over a 12-month period. The numbers are also subject to sampling error. Still, a constant change of that magnitude over an extended period leads to significant erosion of employer provided health insurance. And, that is what has occurred over the past decade. Both the Medical Expenditure Panel Survey (MEPS) and the Kaiser Family Foundation survey document declines of about 10 percentage points in 10 years or about one-half million firms.5 The data presented here document continuation of the longer-term trend.

Small-business owners forecast no major changes in the number of small firms offering employee health insurance in the next year. Thirty-four (34) percent of small employers say that it is “very likely” that they will offer the benefit next year at this time with another 10 percent saying they are “somewhat likely” (Q. 6). In comparison, 37 percent report they are “not at all likely” and another 18 percent are “not too likely”. Combining percentages of the “likely” group (44%) and the “not likely” group (55%) yields a division almost identical to the current 42 – 58 percent offer/not offer split.

Not only should we expect no change in health insurance offers during the next year on a net basis (percent adopting minus percent dropping), we should also expect virtually no change on an individual per firm basis. Those who currently offer employee health insurance are likely to have the benefit 12 months from now and those not offering employee health insurance are not likely to offer it in the coming 12 months. However, the former possess more unwavering intentions than do the latter. Seventy-nine (79) percent of those currently offering insurance say that it is “very likely” they will still offer the benefit next year at this time while another 9 percent say that it is “somewhat likely” (Table 1). That leaves 12 percent who may drop health insurance, though just 2 percent indicate that having the benefit next year is “not at all likely”.

 

[BDBoop]

One in eight small businesses get insurance cancellations after ObamaCare passage « Hot Air

Which is really what needs to happen. This has been in the cards for a long time, and while it may be painful, it could point us toward a real solution. Pushing us all into dependency on our employers for our health care was a horrible idea in the first place, and in general, the low deductible, high premium insurance policy just isn't viable.

But what you're missing is that Obamacare is actually intent on reversing this trend. It's designed to keep people dependent on their employers - or better yet (from the state's point of view) the government - for the most crucial need they have, their very health.

Health care 'reform', like pretty much any government agenda these days, is about controlling people first and foremost. The insurance industry lobbied vigorously to be 'at the table' and in on whatever the state cooks up. But the last priority is the welfare (and most especially, the freedom) of the average citizen. We are pawns in their corporatist game and little more.

The health insurance companies will be out of buisness if Obama gets his way.

Well, since they've been busy fucking everybody without benefit of lube for as long as I can remember? Too bad, so freakin sad.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You think they got it wrong?

As always, you're hopelessly confused.

The number of small employers offering employee health insurance has not changed appreciably in the last 12 months, the post-PPACA passage time frame. About 1 percent of those who now offer health insurance claim that they added it as an employee benefit within the last year (Q. 3). In contrast, 4 percent of those now without employee health insurance dropped the benefit in the same time frame (Q. 3a). These changes are relatively small, a net decline of about 2 percentage points over a 12-month period. The numbers are also subject to sampling error. Still, a constant change of that magnitude over an extended period leads to significant erosion of employer provided health insurance. And, that is what has occurred over the past decade. Both the Medical Expenditure Panel Survey (MEPS) and the Kaiser Family Foundation survey document declines of about 10 percentage points in 10 years or about one-half million firms.5 The data presented here document continuation of the longer-term trend.

Small-business owners forecast no major changes in the number of small firms offering employee health insurance in the next year. Thirty-four (34) percent of small employers say that it is “very likely” that they will offer the benefit next year at this time with another 10 percent saying they are “somewhat likely” (Q. 6). In comparison, 37 percent report they are “not at all likely” and another 18 percent are “not too likely”. Combining percentages of the “likely” group (44%) and the “not likely” group (55%) yields a division almost identical to the current 42 – 58 percent offer/not offer split.

Not only should we expect no change in health insurance offers during the next year on a net basis (percent adopting minus percent dropping), we should also expect virtually no change on an individual per firm basis. Those who currently offer employee health insurance are likely to have the benefit 12 months from now and those not offering employee health insurance are not likely to offer it in the coming 12 months. However, the former possess more unwavering intentions than do the latter. Seventy-nine (79) percent of those currently offering insurance say that it is “very likely” they will still offer the benefit next year at this time while another 9 percent say that it is “somewhat likely” (Table 1). That leaves 12 percent who may drop health insurance, though just 2 percent indicate that having the benefit next year is “not at all likely”.

How am I hopelessly confused?

5. In the last 12 months, did your insurer terminate the specific health insurance plan that you had, or otherwise tell you that the plan that will not be available in the future?

1. Yes 11.7%
2. No 87.7%
3.DK/Refused 0.6%

It is really easy to stop reading at the first part that agrees with your viewpoint and not dig into the numbers, but that is not what the people at HotAir do, they dig into the numbers.

So do I, I love numbers, and that report has a lot of interesting numbers.

 

[MaggieMae]

If Congress couldn't be bothered, do you really expect the average voter to take the time?

The five minutes it takes to check the veracity of something read on hotair? Yes, I do. I realize that's five minutes that could be spent on meaningless tit-for-tat intellectual masturbation on political websites (or real masturbation on non-political websites) but, well, sometimes the responsibilities of citizenship entail sacrifices.

Would you like to know why HotAir is one of the few Conservative leaning sites I read regularly?

From the link in the OP:

There are some legitimate questions about this survey. Many of the questions asked are of opinions and projections rather than already-known events. The sample size is light as well, with only 750 businesses surveyed by NFIB. That’s not an inadequate sample for a national survey, but it’s not exactly robust either.

They actually understand how surveys work, and point out the problems with the ones they post.

With you being a shill for the DNC I understand why you cannot openly admit the truth, but that does not mean you can get away with lies.

Most legitimate websites don't have to justify their existence.

 

[MaggieMae]

Would you like to know why HotAir is one of the few Conservative leaning sites I read regularly?

From the link in the OP:

They actually understand how surveys work, and point out the problems with the ones they post.

Ah, that explains:



Thanks!

You think they got it wrong?

Still, the core question involves events that have already transpired, which is either cancellations or notices of cancellations from insurers. If 14 12% of the sample reported those outcomes, that means that 90 businesses have been either cut off or warned of cutoffs on their existing plans, with an impact averaging somewhere around 4500 employees. That’s a significant result, especially given the “you can keep your health-care plan” rhetoric coming from the White House while urging passage of ObamaCare.

"Plan" means plan. It doesn't mean your doctor may not choose to opt out of said "plan." They are free to do as they want. Duh...

Besides, the intent of that statement simply clarified that the new health insurance bill won't be conducted like an HMO, where only THEIR physicians and facilities can be used.

 

[MaggieMae]

You think they got it wrong?

As always, you're hopelessly confused.

How am I hopelessly confused?

5. In the last 12 months, did your insurer terminate the specific health insurance plan that you had, or otherwise tell you that the plan that will not be available in the future?

1. Yes 11.7%
2. No 87.7%
3.DK/Refused 0.6%

It is really easy to stop reading at the first part that agrees with your viewpoint and not dig into the numbers, but that is not what the people at HotAir do, they dig into the numbers.

So do I, I love numbers, and that report has a lot of interesting numbers.

If you love your numbers, then what part of #2 don't you get? That's a huge majority, my friend, whose insurer has NOT advised its plan would not be available in the future.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The five minutes it takes to check the veracity of something read on hotair? Yes, I do. I realize that's five minutes that could be spent on meaningless tit-for-tat intellectual masturbation on political websites (or real masturbation on non-political websites) but, well, sometimes the responsibilities of citizenship entail sacrifices.

Would you like to know why HotAir is one of the few Conservative leaning sites I read regularly?

From the link in the OP:

There are some legitimate questions about this survey. Many of the questions asked are of opinions and projections rather than already-known events. The sample size is light as well, with only 750 businesses surveyed by NFIB. That’s not an inadequate sample for a national survey, but it’s not exactly robust either.

They actually understand how surveys work, and point out the problems with the ones they post.

With you being a shill for the DNC I understand why you cannot openly admit the truth, but that does not mean you can get away with lies.

Most legitimate websites don't have to justify their existence.

All websites, legitimate or not, have to justify their existence. The ones that do not end up on the sidelines.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ah, that explains:



Thanks!

You think they got it wrong?

Still, the core question involves events that have already transpired, which is either cancellations or notices of cancellations from insurers. If 14 12% of the sample reported those outcomes, that means that 90 businesses have been either cut off or warned of cutoffs on their existing plans, with an impact averaging somewhere around 4500 employees. That’s a significant result, especially given the “you can keep your health-care plan” rhetoric coming from the White House while urging passage of ObamaCare.

"Plan" means plan. It doesn't mean your doctor may not choose to opt out of said "plan." They are free to do as they want. Duh...

Besides, the intent of that statement simply clarified that the new health insurance bill won't be conducted like an HMO, where only THEIR physicians and facilities can be used.

Keep trying.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

As always, you're hopelessly confused.

How am I hopelessly confused?

5. In the last 12 months, did your insurer terminate the specific health insurance plan that you had, or otherwise tell you that the plan that will not be available in the future?

1. Yes 11.7%
2. No 87.7%
3.DK/Refused 0.6%

It is really easy to stop reading at the first part that agrees with your viewpoint and not dig into the numbers, but that is not what the people at HotAir do, they dig into the numbers.

So do I, I love numbers, and that report has a lot of interesting numbers.

If you love your numbers, then what part of #2 don't you get? That's a huge majority, my friend, whose insurer has NOT advised its plan would not be available in the future.

The point was that, out of the firms surveyed, 1 in 8 have already dropped their coverage.

 

[MaggieMae]

Would you like to know why HotAir is one of the few Conservative leaning sites I read regularly?

From the link in the OP:

They actually understand how surveys work, and point out the problems with the ones they post.

With you being a shill for the DNC I understand why you cannot openly admit the truth, but that does not mean you can get away with lies.

Most legitimate websites don't have to justify their existence.

All websites, legitimate or not, have to justify their existence. The ones that do not end up on the sidelines.

I meant by overkill. We are "... " but but but, we're also blah blah blah...