Once Considered Unthinkable, U.S. Sales Tax Gets Fresh Look

Are these the booming times you are referring to?
Early 2000s recession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
sing the stock market as an unofficial benchmark, a recession would have begun in March 2000 when the NASDAQ crashed following the collapse of the Dot-com bubble. The Dow Jones Industrial Average was relatively unscathed by the NASDAQ's crash until the September 11, 2001 attacks, after which the DJIA suffered its worst one-day point loss and biggest one-week losses in history up to that point. The market rebounded, only to crash once more in the final two quarters of 2002. In the final three quarters of 2003, the market finally rebounded permanently, agreeing with the unemployment statistics that a recession defined in this way would have lasted from 2001 through 2003.

And how was the economy from 2003-2008?
It's official: U.S. in a recession since December 2007 - Dec. 1, 2008
The National Bureau of Economic Research said Monday that the U.S. has been in a recession since December 2007, making official what most Americans have already believed about the state of the economy .

So, how were those 4 years of non-recession deficits?
 
The same way Bush made up 8 years of deficits.


OOOooohhhh.... I've got it! He's going to pass it on to the NEXT Administration! Fuck that "I'm will balance the budget by the end of my first term." right? We all know it was just rhetoric anyway....

So how's that CHANGE workin' out for you?

Balancing the budget during a recession would be idiotic. Especially one as bad as this one

He didn't have to balance the budget....

How about not saddling us with a fresh 3 trillion more dollars of debt in the next two years?
 
Here this should help you visualize the difference between Obama and Bush deficits...how many years do you see 480 billion dollar deficits under CBO projections of Obama's tenure?

View attachment 7430

Notice how they go appreciably down after the first year. Funny...maybe what I said about the 1.8 trillion being a one off thing was actually true?

This actually what you said....


Thats 480 billion a year, compared to 1.8 trillion this year. I'd say there is a very large difference between 480 billion and 1.8 trillion, wouldn't you?

That statement would be completely false according to CBO projections.

Your the one who posted the 1.8 tril number, not me. If you want to take umbrage with your own sources, go for it :lol:
 
OOOooohhhh.... I've got it! He's going to pass it on to the NEXT Administration! Fuck that "I'm will balance the budget by the end of my first term." right? We all know it was just rhetoric anyway....

So how's that CHANGE workin' out for you?

Balancing the budget during a recession would be idiotic. Especially one as bad as this one

He didn't have to balance the budget....

How about not saddling us with a fresh 3 trillion more dollars of debt in the next two years?

As I said, I'm happy for him to spend money to save the economy.
 
And how was the economy from 2003-2008?
It's official: U.S. in a recession since December 2007 - Dec. 1, 2008
The National Bureau of Economic Research said Monday that the U.S. has been in a recession since December 2007, making official what most Americans have already believed about the state of the economy .

So, how were those 4 years of non-recession deficits?

400 billion dollars or less, which is 4 times as low as Obama's budget deficit this year.
 
Balancing the budget during a recession would be idiotic. Especially one as bad as this one

He didn't have to balance the budget....

How about not saddling us with a fresh 3 trillion more dollars of debt in the next two years?

As I said, I'm happy for him to spend money to save the economy.

Yes I will be glad when interest rates soar and our government goes bankrupt.:cuckoo:
http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2009/05/barack_obamas_risky_deficit_sp.html
Let's see. From 2010 to 2019, Obama projects annual deficits totaling $7.1 trillion; that's atop the $1.8 trillion deficit for 2009. By 2019, the ratio of publicly held federal debt to gross domestic product (GDP, or the economy) would reach 70 percent, up from 41 percent in 2008. That would be the highest since 1950 (80 percent). The Congressional Budget Office, using less optimistic economic forecasts, raises these estimates. The 2010-19 deficits would total $9.3 trillion; the debt-to-GDP ratio in 2019 would be 82 percent.

But wait: Even these totals may be understated. By various estimates, Obama's health plan might cost $1.2 trillion over a decade; Obama has budgeted only $635 billion. Next, the huge deficits occur despite a pronounced squeeze of defense spending. From 2008 to 2019, total federal spending would rise 75 percent, but defense spending would increase only 17 percent. Unless foreign threats recede, military spending and deficits might both grow.
 
Notice how they go appreciably down after the first year. Funny...maybe what I said about the 1.8 trillion being a one off thing was actually true?

This actually what you said....


Thats 480 billion a year, compared to 1.8 trillion this year. I'd say there is a very large difference between 480 billion and 1.8 trillion, wouldn't you?

That statement would be completely false according to CBO projections.

Your the one who posted the 1.8 tril number, not me. If you want to take umbrage with your own sources, go for it :lol:
You said after this year, that he would only be spending 480 billion dollars which is factually incorrect.
 
It's official: U.S. in a recession since December 2007 - Dec. 1, 2008
The National Bureau of Economic Research said Monday that the U.S. has been in a recession since December 2007, making official what most Americans have already believed about the state of the economy .

So, how were those 4 years of non-recession deficits?

400 billion dollars or less, which is 4 times as low as Obama's budget deficit this year.

You just can't admit that he fucked up by having deficits during boom times, can you?
 
This actually what you said....


Thats 480 billion a year, compared to 1.8 trillion this year. I'd say there is a very large difference between 480 billion and 1.8 trillion, wouldn't you?

That statement would be completely false according to CBO projections.

Your the one who posted the 1.8 tril number, not me. If you want to take umbrage with your own sources, go for it :lol:
You said after this year, that he would only be spending 480 billion dollars which is factually incorrect.

Really? i said only? Can I see a quote on that?

And, as I said, I was only using YOUR source. If its fucked up, don't blame me, look in the mirror.
 
He didn't have to balance the budget....

How about not saddling us with a fresh 3 trillion more dollars of debt in the next two years?

As I said, I'm happy for him to spend money to save the economy.

Yes I will be glad when interest rates soar and our government goes bankrupt.:cuckoo:
RealClearMarkets - Articles - Barack Obama's Risky Deficit Spending
Let's see. From 2010 to 2019, Obama projects annual deficits totaling $7.1 trillion; that's atop the $1.8 trillion deficit for 2009. By 2019, the ratio of publicly held federal debt to gross domestic product (GDP, or the economy) would reach 70 percent, up from 41 percent in 2008. That would be the highest since 1950 (80 percent). The Congressional Budget Office, using less optimistic economic forecasts, raises these estimates. The 2010-19 deficits would total $9.3 trillion; the debt-to-GDP ratio in 2019 would be 82 percent.

But wait: Even these totals may be understated. By various estimates, Obama's health plan might cost $1.2 trillion over a decade; Obama has budgeted only $635 billion. Next, the huge deficits occur despite a pronounced squeeze of defense spending. From 2008 to 2019, total federal spending would rise 75 percent, but defense spending would increase only 17 percent. Unless foreign threats recede, military spending and deficits might both grow.

Well, our government sure did go bankrupt in 1950. Oh...wait...

Its hilarious that you are bitching about federal spending....but defense spending would increase ONLY 17 percent...you don't care about the deficit, you just want to bitch because its actually helping people instead of buying expensive toys to kill people with.
 
So, how were those 4 years of non-recession deficits?

400 billion dollars or less, which is 4 times as low as Obama's budget deficit this year.

You just can't admit that he fucked up by having deficits during boom times, can you?

Obama will not even get close to that deficit level according to CBO figures.

First you claim Bush's presidency was boom times, when proven wrong. You isolate 3 and 1/2 years that have deficits that are 4 times less than Obama's deficit this year.....:cuckoo:
 
Your the one who posted the 1.8 tril number, not me. If you want to take umbrage with your own sources, go for it :lol:
You said after this year, that he would only be spending 480 billion dollars which is factually incorrect.

Really? i said only? Can I see a quote on that?

And, as I said, I was only using YOUR source. If its fucked up, don't blame me, look in the mirror.

You said spending 480 billion dollars, if its only or always, that is false.
 
400 billion dollars or less, which is 4 times as low as Obama's budget deficit this year.

You just can't admit that he fucked up by having deficits during boom times, can you?

Obama will not even get close to that deficit level according to CBO figures.

First you claim Bush's presidency was boom times, when proven wrong. You isolate 3 and 1/2 years that have deficits that are 4 times less than Obama's deficit this year.....:cuckoo:

Good job playing with the numbers. Why exactly is it ok to have 3 and a half years during boom times, with several hundred billion dollar deficits each year?
 
You said after this year, that he would only be spending 480 billion dollars which is factually incorrect.

Really? i said only? Can I see a quote on that?

And, as I said, I was only using YOUR source. If its fucked up, don't blame me, look in the mirror.

You said spending 480 billion dollars, if its only or always, that is false.

You said it would be 4.8 trillion over the next 10 years. I divided that by 10. If you have some problem with the numbers YOU quoted, you can take that up with yourself. :lol:
 
As I said, I'm happy for him to spend money to save the economy.

Yes I will be glad when interest rates soar and our government goes bankrupt.:cuckoo:
RealClearMarkets - Articles - Barack Obama's Risky Deficit Spending
Let's see. From 2010 to 2019, Obama projects annual deficits totaling $7.1 trillion; that's atop the $1.8 trillion deficit for 2009. By 2019, the ratio of publicly held federal debt to gross domestic product (GDP, or the economy) would reach 70 percent, up from 41 percent in 2008. That would be the highest since 1950 (80 percent). The Congressional Budget Office, using less optimistic economic forecasts, raises these estimates. The 2010-19 deficits would total $9.3 trillion; the debt-to-GDP ratio in 2019 would be 82 percent.

But wait: Even these totals may be understated. By various estimates, Obama's health plan might cost $1.2 trillion over a decade; Obama has budgeted only $635 billion. Next, the huge deficits occur despite a pronounced squeeze of defense spending. From 2008 to 2019, total federal spending would rise 75 percent, but defense spending would increase only 17 percent. Unless foreign threats recede, military spending and deficits might both grow.

Well, our government sure did go bankrupt in 1950. Oh...wait...

Its hilarious that you are bitching about federal spending....but defense spending would increase ONLY 17 percent...you don't care about the deficit, you just want to bitch because its actually helping people instead of buying expensive toys to kill people with.

Yes research on olive fruit flies that is spent in France will really help Americans.:eusa_whistle:
Or a bike path in Mn that costs 700,000....what jobs does that produce other than the people who clear the weeds?:lol:
 
Yes I will be glad when interest rates soar and our government goes bankrupt.:cuckoo:
RealClearMarkets - Articles - Barack Obama's Risky Deficit Spending
Let's see. From 2010 to 2019, Obama projects annual deficits totaling $7.1 trillion; that's atop the $1.8 trillion deficit for 2009. By 2019, the ratio of publicly held federal debt to gross domestic product (GDP, or the economy) would reach 70 percent, up from 41 percent in 2008. That would be the highest since 1950 (80 percent). The Congressional Budget Office, using less optimistic economic forecasts, raises these estimates. The 2010-19 deficits would total $9.3 trillion; the debt-to-GDP ratio in 2019 would be 82 percent.

But wait: Even these totals may be understated. By various estimates, Obama's health plan might cost $1.2 trillion over a decade; Obama has budgeted only $635 billion. Next, the huge deficits occur despite a pronounced squeeze of defense spending. From 2008 to 2019, total federal spending would rise 75 percent, but defense spending would increase only 17 percent. Unless foreign threats recede, military spending and deficits might both grow.

Well, our government sure did go bankrupt in 1950. Oh...wait...

Its hilarious that you are bitching about federal spending....but defense spending would increase ONLY 17 percent...you don't care about the deficit, you just want to bitch because its actually helping people instead of buying expensive toys to kill people with.

Yes research on olive fruit flies that is spent in France will really help Americans.:eusa_whistle:
Or a bike path in Mn that costs 700,000....what jobs does that produce other than the people who clear the weeds?:lol:

And who wants to spend money monitoring for volcanos either? What a waste:lol:
 
As I said, I'm happy for him to spend money to save the economy.

Yes I will be glad when interest rates soar and our government goes bankrupt.:cuckoo:
RealClearMarkets - Articles - Barack Obama's Risky Deficit Spending
Let's see. From 2010 to 2019, Obama projects annual deficits totaling $7.1 trillion; that's atop the $1.8 trillion deficit for 2009. By 2019, the ratio of publicly held federal debt to gross domestic product (GDP, or the economy) would reach 70 percent, up from 41 percent in 2008. That would be the highest since 1950 (80 percent). The Congressional Budget Office, using less optimistic economic forecasts, raises these estimates. The 2010-19 deficits would total $9.3 trillion; the debt-to-GDP ratio in 2019 would be 82 percent.

But wait: Even these totals may be understated. By various estimates, Obama's health plan might cost $1.2 trillion over a decade; Obama has budgeted only $635 billion. Next, the huge deficits occur despite a pronounced squeeze of defense spending. From 2008 to 2019, total federal spending would rise 75 percent, but defense spending would increase only 17 percent. Unless foreign threats recede, military spending and deficits might both grow.

Well, our government sure did go bankrupt in 1950. Oh...wait...

Its hilarious that you are bitching about federal spending....but defense spending would increase ONLY 17 percent...you don't care about the deficit, you just want to bitch because its actually helping people instead of buying expensive toys to kill people with.

Obama has stated its unsustainable....but he can't help himself.
Obama Says U.S. Long-Term Debt Load ‘Unsustainable’ (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
President Barack Obama, calling current deficit spending “unsustainable,” warned of skyrocketing interest rates for consumers if the U.S. continues to finance government by borrowing from other countries.
 
Well, our government sure did go bankrupt in 1950. Oh...wait...

Its hilarious that you are bitching about federal spending....but defense spending would increase ONLY 17 percent...you don't care about the deficit, you just want to bitch because its actually helping people instead of buying expensive toys to kill people with.

Yes research on olive fruit flies that is spent in France will really help Americans.:eusa_whistle:
Or a bike path in Mn that costs 700,000....what jobs does that produce other than the people who clear the weeds?:lol:

And who wants to spend money monitoring for volcanos either? What a waste:lol:

I didn't say monitoring for volcanos now did I?

But nice strawman....

here's what I said try to focus


Yes research on olive fruit flies that is spent in France will really help Americans.:eusa_whistle:
Or a bike path in Mn that costs 700,000....what jobs does that produce other than the people who clear the weeds?:lol:
 
We shouldn't be deficit spending in boom times. We should be saving money then, so we can spend it in bad times. Unfortunately, Bush didn't save anything for Obama to spend in bad times.

Are these the booming times you are referring to?
Early 2000s recession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
sing the stock market as an unofficial benchmark, a recession would have begun in March 2000 when the NASDAQ crashed following the collapse of the Dot-com bubble. The Dow Jones Industrial Average was relatively unscathed by the NASDAQ's crash until the September 11, 2001 attacks, after which the DJIA suffered its worst one-day point loss and biggest one-week losses in history up to that point. The market rebounded, only to crash once more in the final two quarters of 2002. In the final three quarters of 2003, the market finally rebounded permanently, agreeing with the unemployment statistics that a recession defined in this way would have lasted from 2001 through 2003.

And how was the economy from 2003-2008?

This report is also available as a PDF file.


Determination of the December 2007 Peak in Economic Activity

The Business Cycle Dating Committee of the National Bureau of Economic Research met by conference call on Friday, November 28. The committee maintains a chronology of the beginning and ending dates (months and quarters) of U.S. recessions. The committee determined that a peak in economic activity occurred in the U.S. economy in December 2007. The peak marks the end of the expansion that began in November 2001 and the beginning of a recession. The expansion lasted 73 months; the previous expansion of the 1990s lasted 120 months.

A recession is a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in production, employment, real income, and other indicators. A recession begins when the economy reaches a peak of activity and ends when the economy reaches its trough. Between trough and peak, the economy is in an expansion.

Because a recession is a broad contraction of the economy, not confined to one sector, the committee emphasizes economy-wide measures of economic activity. The committee believes that domestic production and employment are the primary conceptual measures of economic activity.

The committee views the payroll employment measure, which is based on a large survey of employers, as the most reliable comprehensive estimate of employment. This series reached a peak in December 2007 and has declined every month since then.
Business Cycle Dating Committee, National Bureau of Economic Research
 

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