Once, ask again. Twice, re-word and ask again. Three times? Start a poll.

[Two Thumbs]

I think it's fair. And I also think the tax code is screwed up. With 9000+ pages of rules and regulations how could it not be? We should abolish it and go with a fair or flat tax system, anything but the status quo.

In 1985-86 I went to my local HS adult classes to learn how to do taxes. The tax code "book" was a thin magazine. There was little to it and going 1 hour a day for 4 weeks I was able to do taxes for anyone.

A couple years later it was the sixe of a text book

Then it was 3

Then you couldn't buy it and w/o haveing a fileing cabinet, and now you need lots of memory to download it and special progamming to get everything you are supposed to get.

Go to a flat tax and so libs can get some petty revenge add a fair tax so the rich end up paying more.

 

[editec]

We NOT going to be able to make the income tax code easy or short, folks.

Much of it has to do with deductions and those by their very nature must be complex.

Apply a simplitic tax code to a complex society really makes no sense at all.

 

[Bern80]

We NOT going to be able to make the income tax code easy or short, folks.

Much of it has to do with deductions and those by their very nature must be complex.

Apply a simplitic tax code to a complex society really makes no sense at all.

Ed it's like anything. It's as complex as you choose to make it. It's only complex to you because you assume we need to have a system with a millions deductions and right offs and loop holes. Those things ARE the complexity. Not the result of any perceived complexity. Get rid of them.

The only semi-legitimate reason I can see them there depends on what people think the purpose of taxes are. To me the purpose of taxes is to fund the things that government has responsibilty for. These loopholes, breaks, write offs, deductions are ony necessary if one believes we should use the tax code as a means of influencing behavior.

 

[JBeukema]

How the HELL does one get conservatives on this board to answer a simple yes or no question without sounding like a bunch of seven term senators at a lobbyist luncheon?!?

Obviously most Conservatives believe that the poor are not paying their own fair share of the tax burden in this country, so let's leave them out of the equation.

That being said, do you (America's Conservatives) believe that the super wealthy, who pay about 16% of their incomes in taxes, and the middle class, who fork over an average of around 32% of their incomes, are both paying a fair share of the money that must be collected to keep this country running?

Remember... how efficiently the country is running and what the money is being spent on, while very valid questions, are different questions.​

Frustration from a thread: http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/146106-shrink-the-rich-not-government-16.html#post3096852

When you start off lying, why should I bother being reasonable in return?

Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100 and If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it
would go something
like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the
arrangement, until one day, the
owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he
said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of
your daily beer by $20." so drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the
first four men were unaffected...They
would still drink for free...But what about the other six men - the
paying customers? How could they divide
the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'...They
realized that $20 divided by six is
$3.33...But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the
fifth man and the sixth man would each
end up being paid to drink his beer.

Prof of eco, eh?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omyUncKI7oU&feature=related[/ame]

 

[JBeukema]

The current tax code is definitely fucked

 

[Two Thumbs]

How the HELL does one get conservatives on this board to answer a simple yes or no question without sounding like a bunch of seven term senators at a lobbyist luncheon?!?

Obviously most Conservatives believe that the poor are not paying their own fair share of the tax burden in this country, so let's leave them out of the equation.

That being said, do you (America's Conservatives) believe that the super wealthy, who pay about 16% of their incomes in taxes, and the middle class, who fork over an average of around 32% of their incomes, are both paying a fair share of the money that must be collected to keep this country running?

Remember... how efficiently the country is running and what the money is being spent on, while very valid questions, are different questions.​

Frustration from a thread: http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/146106-shrink-the-rich-not-government-16.html#post3096852

When you start off lying, why should I bother being reasonable in return?

Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100 and If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it
would go something
like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the
arrangement, until one day, the
owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he
said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of
your daily beer by $20." so drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the
first four men were unaffected...They
would still drink for free...But what about the other six men - the
paying customers? How could they divide
the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'...They
realized that $20 divided by six is
$3.33...But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the
fifth man and the sixth man would each
end up being paid to drink his beer.

Prof of eco, eh?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omyUncKI7oU&feature=related[/ame]

I posted the whole email. I don't care on wit if it's a true story or not.

The author started the thread by lying, so I don't feel like I should respond politly.

It's a joke, if you or anyone else can't take a joke, that's your problem.

copy/paste into snopes.com, if you wanna take it seriously, idc

 

[AVG-JOE]

More like "AVG LEFTWING NITWIT"

Nice label toss. Were you the first guy in your teenage circle of friends to miss school from punching a fence or door?

Need a hug?​

 

[AVG-JOE]

I think it's fair. And I also think the tax code is screwed up. With 9000+ pages of rules and regulations how could it not be? We should abolish it and go with a fair or flat tax system, anything but the status quo.

I am impressed by the flexibility of your mind. Kudos.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I think it's fair. And I also think the tax code is screwed up. With 9000+ pages of rules and regulations how could it not be? We should abolish it and go with a fair or flat tax system, anything but the status quo.

In 1985-86 I went to my local HS adult classes to learn how to do taxes. The tax code "book" was a thin magazine. There was little to it and going 1 hour a day for 4 weeks I was able to do taxes for anyone.

A couple years later it was the sixe of a text book

Then it was 3

Then you couldn't buy it and w/o haveing a fileing cabinet, and now you need lots of memory to download it and special progamming to get everything you are supposed to get.

Go to a flat tax and so libs can get some petty revenge add a fair tax so the rich end up paying more.

"Ouch!"

Are you familiar with H&R Block, Jackson Hewitt, et al? You know... the 'Tax Guys' we all diligently go to every year.

We, The People of The U.S.A. spend over a billion dollar$ per year on income tax preparation. And yes, I'll easily find a link if anyone doubts that figure, I'm pretty sure it's way higher than $1 billion industry.

Let that sink in... over $1 billion a year spent doing the fucking paperwork it takes to work in this country.

Good (insert your preferred Deity here), we must look stupid from space!

 

[JBeukema]

pfft! that's job creation, av

We can't put those people out of work


why do you want to destroy more jobs and put Americans on the street?


It's because you're a communist who wants to destroy America, isn't it?

 

[boedicca]

The tax code is not uniform so therefore it is unfair.

Concise enough

And if you want short replies leave out the bullshit you threw in to fire people up .

The tax code has been transformed into a Goody and Paddle Book with which favored people are given treats and unfavored ones are spanked.

 

[AVG-JOE]

pfft! that's job creation, av

We can't put those people out of work


why do you want to destroy more jobs and put Americans on the street?


It's because you're a communist who wants to destroy America, isn't it?

I'm not a communist I'm a liberal. Destruction of America would be counter productive, it just needs some tweeking in tax fairness and social freedoms.

 

[JBeukema]

So you're a liberal who wants to destroy more American jobs in the middle of a recession?

 

[AVG-JOE]

We NOT going to be able to make the income tax code easy or short, folks.

Much of it has to do with deductions and those by their very nature must be complex.

Apply a simplitic tax code to a complex society really makes no sense at all.

That logic only applies if you believe that the government should protect some in the marketplace at the expense of others like it does now.

I believe 'government' has a required role in a successful modern society but I don't trust government to decide who should live and who should die in the marketplace.

 

[AVG-JOE]

So you're a liberal who wants to destroy more American jobs in the middle of a recession?

What would happen if the police finished the job?

What would we do if the cops succeeded at their task and made the world safe?​

Would we fire them? Should we? What would we have them do if some freak combination of freedom and responsibility ended crime?

 

[JBeukema]

So you're a liberal who wants to destroy more American jobs in the middle of a recession?

What would happen if the police finished the job?

What would we do if the cops succeeded at their task and made the world safe?​

Would we fire them? Should we? What would we have them do if some freak combination of freedom and responsibility ended crime?

Impossible. It would take a radical change in human nature.

You might as well ask 'what if buddha came back with an alien army and gave everyone three million dollars'

 

[AVG-JOE]

So you're a liberal who wants to destroy more American jobs in the middle of a recession?

What would happen if the police finished the job?

What would we do if the cops succeeded at their task and made the world safe?​

Would we fire them? Should we? What would we have them do if some freak combination of freedom and responsibility ended crime?

Impossible. It would take a radical change in human nature.

You might as well ask 'what if buddha came back with an alien army and gave everyone three million dollars'

Hmmmmm.

I was pretty sure you of all people would 'get' that last one.... I just had my Sarcasm Injector 750 tuned and cleaned... Perhaps the time has come to go ahead and upgrade to the 850.

 

[thereisnospoon]

How the HELL does one get conservatives on this board to answer a simple yes or no question without sounding like a bunch of seven term senators at a lobbyist luncheon?!?

Obviously most Conservatives believe that the poor are not paying their own fair share of the tax burden in this country, so let's leave them out of the equation.

That being said, do you (America's Conservatives) believe that the super wealthy, who pay about 16% of their incomes in taxes, and the middle class, who fork over an average of around 32% of their incomes, are both paying a fair share of the money that must be collected to keep this country running?

Remember... how efficiently the country is running and what the money is being spent on, while very valid questions, are different questions.​

Frustration from a thread: http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/146106-shrink-the-rich-not-government-16.html#post3096852

When you start off lying, why should I bother being reasonable in return?

Bar Stool Economics...

<snip for the sake of brevity>

A little chain email humor. Shame it's to close to reality to be all that funny.

Blah and Yadda.

Seen it all before.

Makes valid points via the use of parables.

Does NOT answer the question:

Do YOU think the current tax code in America is fair and/or efficient?

Joey, have you every been in a Turkish..never mind. We'll get to that later.
Umm, the "bar stool economics" anecdote explains our tax code in simple terms, but explains it very well. The system of progressive taxation AND the problem of the entitlement mentality shared by the non-producers of this country.
Those on the Left despise these anecdotes because it exposes the festering sore of entitlement. Entitlement brought on by Lefty do- gooder policies that rob from the producers to create transfer payments to those who live off of the system and game the system.
These "gamers" are supported by liberal politicians for one reason and one reason only.....The virtual guarantee of their vote every election cycle.

The tax code will reach a level of fairness when those who benefit the most pay for their benefits.....Sure, continue the social programs. Then tax them as income.
In other words, those that collect, pay taxes on the collection just as those who earn pay taxes. No one should be immune.
One way to insure absolute fairness in federal taxation is to have a 15% flat income tax and the elimination of ALL deductions. No mortgage int deduction, no business write offs, no charitable contributions. Nothing. To make the system even more equitable, the threshold at which one pays the 15% would begin at 90% of the median household income of about $46,000( EST) per year. Or about $37,500 per year for couples and say $30,000 for individuals.
An automatic 4% of that amount goes directly into a personal retirement account that is NOT to be touched by the federal government for ANY reason. That money BELONGS to the person who paid into the system. Each payee assigns a beneficiary(ies) in the event of their passing before the retirement age to be set at 85% of the recognized scientifically supported life expectancy. Example if the life expectancy of all Americans is 79 years, the retirement age would be set at 67 years of age....
These are merely suggestions of how to combat our idiotic and complicated tax code.
The tax code could be simplified and would then be far less costly. We spend billions of dollars just to administer the US Tax Code. That's ridiculous.
Please do not respond with "but what about...". That is not the point. The issue here is simplifying the way we are taxed and insuring everyone pays something.

 

[thereisnospoon]

pfft! that's job creation, av

We can't put those people out of work


why do you want to destroy more jobs and put Americans on the street?


It's because you're a communist who wants to destroy America, isn't it?

This is Unnecessary work or "make work"...In a logical society, if there is no reason for a task to be performed, there is no job for that position.
Your theory falls into the same category as the French government's mandates that require businesses to "create" and maintain employment even though there may be no purpose for those workers. That's socialist lunacy.
That said, the people that have jobs due to the unfair and gargantuan task of administering the tax code would no longer be needed to do those jobs. They'd simply have to find work in their field of expertise( accounting, statistics,analysis, etc.) in the private sector. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[AVG-JOE]

When you start off lying, why should I bother being reasonable in return?

Bar Stool Economics...

<snip for the sake of brevity>

A little chain email humor. Shame it's to close to reality to be all that funny.

Blah and Yadda.

Seen it all before.

Makes valid points via the use of parables.

Does NOT answer the question:

Do YOU think the current tax code in America is fair and/or efficient?

Joey, have you every been in a Turkish..never mind. We'll get to that later.
Umm, the "bar stool economics" anecdote explains out tax code in simple terms and explains very well, the system of progressive taxes AND the problem of the entitlement mentality shared by the non-producers of this country
Those on the Left despise these anecdotes because it exposes the festering sore of entitlement. Entitlement brought on by Lefty do- gooder policies that rob from the producers to create transfer payments to those who live off and game the system.
These "gamers" are supported by liberal politicians for one reason and one reason only.....The virtual guarantee of their vote every election cycle.

The tax code will reach a level of fairness when those who benefit the most pay for their benefits.....Sure, continue the social programs. all of them should be taxed as income.
In other words, those that collect pay taxes on the collection just as those who earn pay taxes. No one should be immune.
The only way to insure absolute fairness in federal taxation is to have a 15% flat income tax and the elimination of ALL deductions. No mortgage int deduction, no business write offs, no charitable contributions. Nothing. To make the system even more equitable, the threshold at which one pays the 15% would begin at 90% of the median household income of about $46,000( EST) per year. Or about $37,500 per year for couples and say $30,000 for individuals.
An automatic 4% of that amount goes directly into a personal retirement account that is NOT to be touched by the federal government for ANY reason. That money BELONGS to the person who paid into the system. Each payee assigns a beneficiary(ies) in the event of their passing before the retirement age to be set at 85% of the recognized scientifically supported life expectancy. Example if the life expectancy of all Americans is 79 years, the retirement age would be set at 67 years of age....
These are merely suggestions of how to combat our idiotic and complicated tax code.
The tax code could be simplified and would then be far less costly. We spend billions of dollars just to administer the US Tax Code. That's ridiculous.
Please do not respond with "but what about...". That is not the point. The issue here is simplifying the way we are taxed and insuring everyone pays something.

Joey?!?

Is that YOU, Cathy?