On the "War on Terrorism"

[Zoomie1980]

Racist? Haha.. you humor me.

I happen to be one of the idiots who grew up in Western Europe, and I can assure that every tax dollar there goes toward actually IMPROVING THE QUALITY OF LIFE. That's why our public education isn't in the shitter, and everyone who holds a job gets free QUALITY health care. And most western European countries haven't been in a war since WW2. Pretty good track record, that's a time in which America fought quite a few useless wars.. if I recall.

You must be joking when you mention "unbridled immigration." I don't deny that it's an issue in Europe, but compared to the rampant and commonly accepted illegal immigration in America.. there is no competition. America wins hands down.

Yes, the Germans, Dutch, and French are the most racist societies in the developed world. The French are the absolute worst. I spent the better part of 10 years in Western Europe and observed it first hand. And the funny thing is they are being overrun by Muslim immigrants and I find it hillarious! They are much more paranoid about their immigration problem than we are. Heaven forbid the worthless French loose their snobish culture. Might actually be a decent to visit if that happened.

And that great health care system is why virtually EVERY wealthy European comes to the US for major surgeries and treatments, and most any Euro of means moves his money outside the country to Asia and America to shelter it from draconian taxes. It is why Europe has been in a borderline recession for over 20 years with double digit unemployment common throughout western Europe. What the socialist idiots of western Europe don't get is the right to FIRE also frees companies to hire at will....the great secret of the American economy and that of the exploded EASTERN European and Asian rim economies.

And War? It is because the COWARDS of Western Europe let every else do their fighting FOR THEM. It was massive American military presence in Germany and Italy and Greece that kept the Soviets from marching to the Atlantic from the end of WWII to the end of the Cold War. IT was American forces who constituted over 85% of the combat power in the Balkans to keep those people from killing each other and exporting their ethnic cleansing to the rest of Europe. It as the US who supplied 90% of the combat power that got Saddam out of Kuiwait in PG I. Britain suppled most of the rest of the REAL combat units. The useless French haven't won a war since Napolean's day and Spanish pissed their pants at one minor rail explosion terrorist attack.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Until Iran says "We are going to attack you," we have no right to interfere in their internal affairs. The United States can't keep responding to every possible madman with a nuke... there are too many of them. There are enough internal problems, we don't need to be maintaining a trillion dollar a year empire, stationing troops in Afghanistan, Germany, South Korea, Japan, Italy, the UK, Turkey, Belgium, Bahrain and Cuba... to name just a few. We have literally hundreds of thousands of troops all over the world. Why? Why are we spending this vital part of our assets protecting an empire based on political manipulation and the force of arms?

About non-intervention:



Source: http://www.teachingamericanhistory.com/library/index.asp?document=645

When a nation-state calls for the violent distruction and genocide of a regional neighbor it gives us every right to do anything we have to to bottle them up for good!

 

[rayboyusmc]

Not to burst your bubble. But the last thing fighting men want to see is war!

True, but our politicians don't have any such scruples, and they are the ones who start the wars.

Lie about WMDs. Lie about the Gulf of Tonkin. Lie about whatever is needed to start a war and then profit from it. Haliburton, KBR, Blackwater, Carlyle Group, etc.

I fell for the same shit when I volunteered in 1966. I really believed that Domino theory crap. Funny, but we lost Vietnam and communism hasn't taken over and Kissinger is still going strong.

I believe in military service. I enjoyed serving. We just need to stop letting worthless politicians get our military killed.

Saddam was no threat to US, but 3900+ Real Patriots are dead for NeoCon dreamers sitting in their safe bunkers and making $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

 

[Zoomie1980]

True, but our politicians don't have any such scruples, and they are the ones who start the wars.

Lie about WMDs. Lie about the Gulf of Tonkin. Lie about whatever is needed to start a war and then profit from it. Haliburton, KBR, Blackwater, Carlyle Group, etc.

What's wrong with those companies? I own stock in two of them. Exxon, too!

Many 401k's, and their kindrids, are invested heavily in those and similar defense related stocks. What good for Haliburton and Exxon is GOOD for America and GOOD for just about anyone that has an equity based retirement plan....which means, the common working man these days.....

 

[eots]

True, but our politicians don't have any such scruples, and they are the ones who start the wars.

Lie about WMDs. Lie about the Gulf of Tonkin. Lie about whatever is needed to start a war and then profit from it. Haliburton, KBR, Blackwater, Carlyle Group, etc.

I fell for the same shit when I volunteered in 1966. I really believed that Domino theory crap. Funny, but we lost Vietnam and communism hasn't taken over and Kissinger is still going strong.

I believe in military service. I enjoyed serving. We just need to stop letting worthless politicians get our military killed.


Saddam was no threat to US, but 3900+ Real Patriots are dead for NeoCon dreamers sitting in their safe bunkers and making $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

I knew you where the real deal I grew up with men that without question had lived through the reality's of war and involved in covert operations and military intelligence and this reminds me of how they talked in private. the gungho kill em all for god and country attitude of have heard from other military posters reminds me of those that served in the military but never experienced a lot or any actual war. I can remember as a kid when one of those would start going off like that ..its always got the same response from the ones that had really lived it..smile and nod..then change the subject

 

[Helios]

Yes, the Germans, Dutch, and French are the most racist societies in the developed world. The French are the absolute worst. I spent the better part of 10 years in Western Europe and observed it first hand. And the funny thing is they are being overrun by Muslim immigrants and I find it hillarious! They are much more paranoid about their immigration problem than we are. Heaven forbid the worthless French loose their snobish culture. Might actually be a decent to visit if that happened.

Western Europe, at least Germany where I was raised, is taking huge steps to end illegal immigration.. if you want to call them paranoia so be it, but compared to America, it's very difficult to illegally immigrate to Germany. It's a smaller country, fewer borders to control, and most of the border police have fully automatic weapons. I have never been a big fan of the French, so I wont argue there.

And that great health care system is why virtually EVERY wealthy European comes to the US for major surgeries and treatments, and most any Euro of means moves his money outside the country to Asia and America to shelter it from draconian taxes. It is why Europe has been in a borderline recession for over 20 years with double digit unemployment common throughout western Europe. What the socialist idiots of western Europe don't get is the right to FIRE also frees companies to hire at will....the great secret of the American economy and that of the exploded EASTERN European and Asian rim economies.

Europe, compared to America, has a huge middle class, and tiny fractions of poor and rich people. Most of the countries I'm thinking of are to socialism what America is to capitalism. Thus, your statement that all "wealthy" Europeans leave the country for medical care in America, which I doubt since MILLIONS of people from America go to Asia for medical care, falls completely short of any kind of point.

And War? It is because the COWARDS of Western Europe let every else do their fighting FOR THEM. It was massive American military presence in Germany and Italy and Greece that kept the Soviets from marching to the Atlantic from the end of WWII to the end of the Cold War. IT was American forces who constituted over 85% of the combat power in the Balkans to keep those people from killing each other and exporting their ethnic cleansing to the rest of Europe. It as the US who supplied 90% of the combat power that got Saddam out of Kuiwait in PG I. Britain suppled most of the rest of the REAL combat units. The useless French haven't won a war since Napolean's day and Spanish pissed their pants at one minor rail explosion terrorist attack.

Most people think it's a GOOD thing not to be in a constant state of warfare... your typical snobish American response was to be expected. Of course you're always the good guys right? It doesn't matter that a few million innocents get bulldozed in the process. That's just collateral damage to you. Well those people have families, they have lives, and the United States has no right to impose it's own values and standards on other countries.

You call us cowards...? so was Ghandi a coward for not picking up a gun and shooting as many Brits as he could? Was MLK a coward for not urging counter violence against the police?

 

[Helios]

Homeschooling is outlawed in Germany. They will take your kids away if you even think about tutoring them. It's all left in the hands of the state. It's a law that was put on the books by Hitler's gang and wasn't removed.

http://www.hslda.org/hs/international/Germany/default.asp

Yet public education continues to flourish in Germany, negating your entire argument.

 

[Gunny]

Until Iran says "We are going to attack you," we have no right to interfere in their internal affairs. The United States can't keep responding to every possible madman with a nuke... there are too many of them. There are enough internal problems, we don't need to be maintaining a trillion dollar a year empire, stationing troops in Afghanistan, Germany, South Korea, Japan, Italy, the UK, Turkey, Belgium, Bahrain and Cuba... to name just a few. We have literally hundreds of thousands of troops all over the world. Why? Why are we spending this vital part of our assets protecting an empire based on political manipulation and the force of arms?

About non-intervention:



Source: http://www.teachingamericanhistory.com/library/index.asp?document=645

Did you read over your comment before hitting submit? You do realize it only takes ONE madman with his finger on the button to obliterate the world?

So in your opinion, you are saying his right to posess nuclear weapons trumps the rights of the world to exist? That is until he uses them, but then, some consolation that'll be.

Your statement is not logical.

 

[Gunny]

True, but our politicians don't have any such scruples, and they are the ones who start the wars.

Lie about WMDs. Lie about the Gulf of Tonkin. Lie about whatever is needed to start a war and then profit from it. Haliburton, KBR, Blackwater, Carlyle Group, etc.

I fell for the same shit when I volunteered in 1966. I really believed that Domino theory crap. Funny, but we lost Vietnam and communism hasn't taken over and Kissinger is still going strong.

I believe in military service. I enjoyed serving. We just need to stop letting worthless politicians get our military killed.

Saddam was no threat to US, but 3900+ Real Patriots are dead for NeoCon dreamers sitting in their safe bunkers and making $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Really? I must've missed that part of history where North Vietnam didn't invade South Vietnam and subjugate a sovereign nation by force.

 

[Helios]

Did you read over your comment before hitting submit? You do realize it only takes ONE madman with his finger on the button to obliterate the world?

So in your opinion, you are saying his right to posess nuclear weapons trumps the rights of the world to exist? That is until he uses them, but then, some consolation that'll be.

Your statement is not logical.

First, no nuclear weapon can "obliterate the world." There are no secret death rays and mega bombs Gunny. We aren't quite advanced enough to obliterate planets yet, but I'm sure if you keep writing your congressmen, something will be done about that.

The United States is the only country ever to deploy nuclear weapons against a civilian population.. why are we the authority on who should or shouldn't have nukes? This is exactly how the people were pressure into the Iraq war, genius. Build up enough fear... enough panic. Oh no! The Iraqis have WMD's! They're going to kill you, and your poor mother and your little brother Joey if WE DON'T KILL THEM EVIL TERRORISTS. Oh... but... the evidence turned out to be... fake. Didn't it. Oops. Now, a couple of years later, lets make the EXACT same mistake and rush into war with yet ANOTHER middle eastern country. Brilliant.

Now, let me preempt your next attempt to twist my argument around. If we find incontrovertible evidence of the existence of NUCLEAR WEAPONS, not nuclear power plant, or if Iran actually threatens a nuclear attack, I'm all for taking military action. A full scale war is however not the right approach to a madman with his finger on the button. As you can see in Iraq, a fat fucking load of good that did us. I would suggest either the Marque and Reprisal approach, or sending CIA operatives and special ops, thus protecting both American lives, the American economy and innocent civilians.

I'll wait, citizen.

 

[akiboy]

First, no nuclear weapon can "obliterate the world." There are no secret death rays and mega bombs Gunny. We aren't quite advanced enough to obliterate planets yet, but I'm sure if you keep writing your congressmen, something will be done about that.

The United States is the only country ever to deploy nuclear weapons against a civilian population.. why are we the authority on who should or shouldn't have nukes? This is exactly how the people were pressure into the Iraq war, genius. Build up enough fear... enough panic. Oh no! The Iraqis have WMD's! They're going to kill you, and your poor mother and your little brother Joey if WE DON'T KILL THEM EVIL TERRORISTS. Oh... but... the evidence turned out to be... fake. Didn't it. Oops. Now, a couple of years later, lets make the EXACT same mistake and rush into war with yet ANOTHER middle eastern country. Brilliant.

Now, let me preempt your next attempt to twist my argument around. If we find incontrovertible evidence of the existence of NUCLEAR WEAPONS, not nuclear power plant, or if Iran actually threatens a nuclear attack, I'm all for taking military action. A full scale war is however not the right approach to a madman with his finger on the button. As you can see in Iraq, a fat fucking load of good that did us. I would suggest either the Marque and Reprisal approach, or sending CIA operatives and special ops, thus protecting both American lives, the American economy and innocent civilians.

I'll wait, citizen.

Saddam would have acquired a nuke by now if America had not invaded. Iraq had nuclear weapon facilities way back in the 80’s. Saddam was very close to building a deliverable warhead but he made the mistake of keeping all his eggs in one basket. Israel realized this and blew up the nuclear plant in Osirak in 1981. This set back the Iraq nuclear weapons program by years. Saddam again ordered his scientists(who ironically were trained in Harwell , U.K) to develop a nuke program. And what’s more he even planned to assassinate George Bush (the 42nd). Thank god America intervened otherwise there would be a bloody Armageddon in the freaking Middle East. Just imagine IF America had left Iraq alone. Then you have a 3 pronged attack from Iran, Iraq and North Korea (and 2 of these countries would already possess nuclear weapons.).Israel would have left Uncle Sam’s security umbrella and taken things into its own hand. Then you would be asking why the U.S did not invade!!!

And you talk about sending a CIA team to Iran??? Dude, Tehran’s intelligence is so good that they would know if the Israeli PM farted in his office! Forget assassinating an Iranian madman. How the hell would they even get into the country? I am not saying that U.S Special Ops aren’t brilliant but this seems too far fetched!

 

[eots]

Saddam would have acquired a nuke by now if America had not invaded. Iraq had nuclear weapon facilities way back in the 80’s. Saddam was very close to building a deliverable warhead but he made the mistake of keeping all his eggs in one basket. Israel realized this and blew up the nuclear plant in Osirak in 1981. This set back the Iraq nuclear weapons program by years. Saddam again ordered his scientists(who ironically were trained in Harwell , U.K) to develop a nuke program. And what’s more he even planned to assassinate George Bush (the 42nd). Thank god America intervened otherwise there would be a bloody Armageddon in the freaking Middle East. Just imagine IF America had left Iraq alone. Then you have a 3 pronged attack from Iran, Iraq and North Korea (and 2 of these countries would already possess nuclear weapons.).Israel would have left Uncle Sam’s security umbrella and taken things into its own hand. Then you would be asking why the U.S did not invade!!!

And you talk about sending a CIA team to Iran??? Dude, Tehran’s intelligence is so good that they would know if the Israeli PM farted in his office! Forget assassinating an Iranian madman. How the hell would they even get into the country? I am not saying that U.S Special Ops aren’t brilliant but this seems too far fetched!

wow thats quiet a...story

 

[akiboy]

wow thats quiet a...story

These are solid facts eots. I don't go around writing conspiracy theories.

PS: Let me give you some genuine advice. Please change your display picture. No one is going to support your statements on this board by looking at that

 

[Helios]

Saddam would have acquired a nuke by now if America had not invaded. Iraq had nuclear weapon facilities way back in the 80’s. Saddam was very close to building a deliverable warhead but he made the mistake of keeping all his eggs in one basket. Israel realized this and blew up the nuclear plant in Osirak in 1981. This set back the Iraq nuclear weapons program by years. Saddam again ordered his scientists(who ironically were trained in Harwell , U.K) to develop a nuke program. And what’s more he even planned to assassinate George Bush (the 42nd). Thank god America intervened otherwise there would be a bloody Armageddon in the freaking Middle East. Just imagine IF America had left Iraq alone. Then you have a 3 pronged attack from Iran, Iraq and North Korea (and 2 of these countries would already possess nuclear weapons.).Israel would have left Uncle Sam’s security umbrella and taken things into its own hand. Then you would be asking why the U.S did not invade!!!

And you talk about sending a CIA team to Iran??? Dude, Tehran’s intelligence is so good that they would know if the Israeli PM farted in his office! Forget assassinating an Iranian madman. How the hell would they even get into the country? I am not saying that U.S Special Ops aren’t brilliant but this seems too far fetched!

It's funny when people accuse me of supporting crazy conspiracy theories.

a 3 pronged attack from Iran, Iraq and North Korea!!!

Well... show me some evidence that our enemies are all conspiring against us and building nukes. Let's see it. That's gotta be the most far fetched right wing bullshit I've seen in a while. I know several countries have nuclear programs, but show me evidence of nuclear weapons or express intent to attack the U.S. I'll wait.

Once again I come back to the point: why is the U.S. the authority on nukes? Just because we have 10,000 of them?

 

[Steerpike]

First, no nuclear weapon can "obliterate the world." There are no secret death rays and mega bombs Gunny.

Except for HAARP, right?

 

[Helios]

Except for HAARP, right?

Sigh. HAARP is first of all, not secret, and second of all has not been proven to be even as powerful as a nuclear weapon, although these allegations exist.

A small group of American physicists aired complaints in scientific journals such as Physics and Society, charging that the HAARP could be seeking ways to destroy or disable enemy spacecraft or disrupt communications over large portions of the planet....

The HAARP has subsequently become a target for those who have suggested that it could be used to test the ability "to deliver very large amount of energy, comparable to a nuclear bomb, anywhere on earth," changing weather patterns, blocking all global communications, disrupting human mental processes and mind control, causing earthquakes, and "x-raying" the earth. These claims are generally disregarded by scientists and those involved with the project as being completely baseless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haarp#HAARP_controversy

 

[Steerpike]

Sigh. HAARP is first of all, not secret, and second of all has not been proven to be even as powerful as a nuclear weapon, although these allegations exist.

Yeah, I know. I was just checking.

 

[Helios]

Yeah, I know. I was just checking.

Checking what? If I knew my contemporary aerospace weaponry? No offense, but I ain't your student, and you are nothing close to my teacher. If you want to check someone, do it on your own time, not mine.

 

[Steerpike]

Checking what? If I knew my contemporary aerospace weaponry? No offense, but I ain't your student, and you are nothing close to my teacher. If you want to check someone, do it on your own time, not mine.

This is my time as much as yours. If you don't like it, don't respond.

 

[Zoomie1980]

First, no nuclear weapon can "obliterate the world." There are no secret death rays and mega bombs Gunny. We aren't quite advanced enough to obliterate planets yet, but I'm sure if you keep writing your congressmen, something will be done about that.

The United States is the only country ever to deploy nuclear weapons against a civilian population.. why are we the authority on who should or shouldn't have nukes? This is exactly how the people were pressure into the Iraq war, genius. Build up enough fear... enough panic. Oh no! The Iraqis have WMD's! They're going to kill you, and your poor mother and your little brother Joey if WE DON'T KILL THEM EVIL TERRORISTS. Oh... but... the evidence turned out to be... fake. Didn't it. Oops. Now, a couple of years later, lets make the EXACT same mistake and rush into war with yet ANOTHER middle eastern country. Brilliant.

Now, let me preempt your next attempt to twist my argument around. If we find incontrovertible evidence of the existence of NUCLEAR WEAPONS, not nuclear power plant, or if Iran actually threatens a nuclear attack, I'm all for taking military action. A full scale war is however not the right approach to a madman with his finger on the button. As you can see in Iraq, a fat fucking load of good that did us. I would suggest either the Marque and Reprisal approach, or sending CIA operatives and special ops, thus protecting both American lives, the American economy and innocent civilians.

I'll wait, citizen.

What we are witnessing in the middle east is yet another version of a clash of civilizations that we have had since the dawn of human history. This particular clash has been going on for over 1300 years and shows no signs of abating. It really started when the Moors invaded Spain in the 8th century and were driven out about 200 years later. Then the Crusades. Then the Ottoman Turks threatened to overrun Europe from the Southeast 100 years later. It flared up again the various Arab-Israel conflicts in the 20th century, then in the Balkans in the 1990's....and now this. In the 8th Century it was the Spaniards and French who were the tip of the spear. The Hungarians and Romanians and even Austrians and Prussians against the Ottomans, the Israelis were the tip in the 20th century and now it's the US.

Civilizations will ALWAYS collide in violent collisions because, by definition, they cannot coexist and only have short interludes of peace. And this one has flared up again and may not end until millions die....which is quite the normal state of the human condition on this planet.