On the road to elections.

[ekrem]

In Septermber will be a citizen's referendum in Turkey regarding consitutional amandments in the judiciary. Then, somewhere between September 2010 and July 2011 will be general elections.
The date is dependent on outcome of referendum.
This thread will cover the road to election.

 

[ekrem]

Erdogan Losing Support as Turkish Opposition Pulls Ahead in Opinion Poll
- Bloomberg

CHP: 33.5 %
AKP: 31.1 %
MHP: 15.49 %
SONAR Temmuz anketinde 1. parti hangisi? - Foto Galeri
CNNTurk.com

Polling company (SONAR) is very serious and predicted the outcome of 2007 elections:

July 2007 -->
Sonar'ýn seçim anketinde de AKP birinci parti / Siyaset / Milliyet Ýnternet


July 2010 -->

Every party below 10% will fail on the threshhold. That means a party must get at least 10% of total votes to get into parliament.

 

[ekrem]

Political spectrum:

AKP
Centre-right
Economic Liberalism
Conservatism
Justice and Development Party (Turkey) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CHP
Centre-left
Social Democracy
Kemalist Ideology
Republican People's Party (Turkey) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MHP
Far right
Turkish nationalism
Nationalist Movement Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


No political party will reach absolute majority in next elections. So a coalitions has to be formed. It seems not possible that a coalition with participation of AKP therein will be formed.

CHP wants to remove immunity of AKP and take them to court because of corruption.
Leader of MHP, Mr. Bahceli, was accused by Mr. Erdogan as being a fascist in a speech in Mr. Bahceli's hometown in Osmaniye.
Also, there were some physical fights between AKP and MHP parliamentarians in Parliament. The MHP leader issued a warning to AKP not to near any MHP parliamentarian within 1 meters in Parliament.

Time: 1:45​

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba0jfSthZs4]YouTube - Meclis'te Yumruk Yumru?a Kavga...[/ame]



The youth organization of the MHP is the so-called Idealist Youth.

(...) an ultra-nationalist[1] neo-fascist[2][3][4][5][6][7][8] youth organization. It is accused of terrorism[9][10][11] and infiltration of European policy.[12][13]

Grey Wolves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ekrem]

In 2007, the AKP passed a bill in Parliament to legalize women to wear head-scarf in University.
The bill was nullified by Constitutional Court. The Court of Cassation started an investigation into AKP, and it charged the AKP on grounds of "being a focal point of anti-secular activities" at the Constitutional Court.
Constitutional Court rejected the charge by the Court of Cassation.

In Turkey it is common-sense, that head-scarf ban on University has to be lifted as it not only is a source of brain-drain of skilled women, but also religious discrimination.But they won't let the AKP lift the ban.

K. Kilicdaroglu, leader of CHP and very likely to be next Prime Minister, has promised to lift the ban.
In an interview with newspaper RADIKAL (don't look at the name, it is the newspaper of the Liberals), he was asked these questions:

Question: Will women with head-scarf be able to enter Universities, once you become elected?
K. Kilicdaroglu: We will establish equality in higher education, no one should have a doubt about this. We are determined to solve the head-scarf issue.
Türban ve Kürt sorununu biz çözeriz / Politika / Radikal Ýnternet


BBC Turkish interview (Video) on subject of Foreign Policy:
Question: Since EU membership talks have started, the talks have cooled and dynamism lost...
K. Kilicdaroglu:
Turkey is not a country that can easily be incorporated into EU due to its Population size, Economic size and Culutural Charackteristics. What matters to us in this process is the different standards applied on our membership talks in contrast to previous membership talks. We are disturbed by these additional standards. If today there is talk of a re-orientation of Turkey, then our friends within EU also have to question their role in this.
BBC Turkce - Haberler - K?l?çdaro?lu BBC'ye konu?tu: AB ile yeni ba?lang?ç hedefliyoruz

The first foreign visit of Kilicdaroglu since becoming party leader of CHP has been to North Cyprus. There he said, Turkey will not become an EU member and there is no reason to give concessions on Cyprus issue to the EU. Turkey would stop re-unification talks between North and South Cyprus. The area of Famagusta, which the South Cypriots claim as theirs, which is subject of re-unification talks and therefore had not been developed infrastructurally, will be instrumentalized economically for the benefit of North Cyprus.
Kýlýçdaroðlu: "Ben olsam Maraþ'ý açarým" - KIBRIS POSTASI - KIBRIS HABERLERÝ

On Iraq issue and the presence of PKK he said, that Turkey will establish a military buffer zone in flat-lands of Iraq:

What is there to deny? We want to create a buffer zone in a flat area. We do not want this land; we will withdraw as soon as the terror is over. There shouldn’t be any problems

Kilicdaroglu: "Buffer zone needed" - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review

In Foreign Policy, the CHP accuses the AKP of playing a double-faced game regarding Israel. In the basis of the "One minute" incident in World Economic Forum in Davos, Kilicdaroglu says, that AKP says in public "One Minute" but behind closed doors "Yes please". Turkey agreed and did not veto Israel's OECD membership on May 20th 2010 allthough the Palestinian government protested against this move.
K?l?çdaro?lu: Kap?lar arkas?nda 'Yes please' - Siyaset - ntvmsnbc.com

According to Kilicdaroglu, all agreements with Israel, including social and cultural need to be cancelled. The killings of the flottila were an insult to Turkey and Israel needs definately to pay for this.
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/1...nts-with-israel-should-be-canceled-quot-.html

 

[ekrem]

Turkey is in theory 99% Muslim.
About 15 to 20 Million Turks follow Alevite direction of Islam.
Alevi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kilicdaroglu is Alevite and Turkish Kurd.
He would be the first Prime Minister of Turkey not being Sunnite.
Kemal K?l?çdaro?lu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ekrem]

The MHP party is the most developed party in terms of grassroots organizations.
During Cold War it was funded by CIA in anti-communist activities. Its supporters were heavily involved in Turkish branche of Gladio and Counter-Guerilla:
Counter-Guerrilla - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Grey Wolves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The CIA employed people from the far right, such as Pan-Turkist SS-member Ruzi Nazar (father of Sylvia Nasar),[17] to train the Grey Wolves (Turkish: Ülkücüler),[33] the youth wing of the MHP. Nazar was a Turkoman born near Tashkent who had deserted the Red Army to join the Nazis during World War II in order to fight on the Eastern Front for the creation of a Turkistan.[34][35] After Germany lost the war, some of its spies found haven in the U.S. intelligence community. Nazar was such a person, and he became the CIA's station chief to Turkey.[36]

In modern times, the MHP left its duties of the Cold War and transformed into a full democratic party, albeit standing on the far right. MHP has an electoral base of about 12-18 % of population. Currently it has 15.49 % support:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-m...883-on-the-road-to-elections.html#post2534921
The links to USA are not anymore cultivated.

In Foreign policy the party programe of the MHP calls for:
- a deterrent, eurasian-centrist foreign policy with Russia the preferential trade partner
- political integration with Central Asia
- removing the perception of EU being a "life or death"-issue for Turkey
Page 125-129 of party programe
http://www.mhp.org.tr/kitaplar/mhp_parti_programi_2009_opt.pdf
- to redefine US-Turkish relations based on equal interests (Page 132)


The ideology of MHP overlaps with those of the influential movement of Russia's Alexander Dugin
Aleksandr Dugin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ekrem]

On 12th September will be referendum.
12th September is also anniversary of the 12th September 1980 military coup.

If referendum is approved, the judiciary in Turkey will be redefined:
- limit the jurisdiction of military courts and allow civilian courts to try soldiers in peace time for coup attempts and offences related to national security and organised crime.
- the army chief and his top four aides to be tried at the Supreme Court.
- trial of the leaders of the 1980 coup
- give civil servants the right to collective bargaining but not the right to strike
- expand women's and children's rights.
AFP: Turkey's government faces referendum test

AKP urges to vote YES. CHP and MHP urge NO.

EU supports the constitutional changes, as accountability of Army in front of civil courts is a key demand of EU from Turkey in the membership process.

 

[ekrem]

[Kilicdaroglu, CHP] appears to be going the way of the previous leadership of the party by maintaining its hard-line nationalist position on various foreign policy issues.
This does not appear to be the party leader who is going to enhance Turkish-European relations at a difficult moment for both sides.
Neither does it look as if he will be a leader who will be able to contribute much to Turkish-US ties

K?l?çdaro?lu sending the wrong message to Europe - Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review

The thing is, that neither of the 3 big political parties will be able to rule Turkey after next elections. AKP and CHP are the parties with broadest support, both will have to court the smaller MHP into a coalition.

Allthough the CHP is considered Social Democrat, Nationalism is also a key part of CHP.

Secularism – or at least its jargon – may be dispensed with, ultimately because its adherents realize that they are a minority and what matters is to save the day.
It is however an altogether different matter with nationalism: Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu may challenge militarism, statism and rigid secularism; he is not about to propose any equivalent departure from the genetically inscribed Turkish nationalism of the CHP.
Contrary to secularism, nationalism holds sway over the vast majority of the country.

Turkey Analyst,
vol. 3 no. 11 - Central Asia-Caucasus Institute and Silk Road Studies Program

 

[ekrem]

National Intelligence Council, which brings together all 16 US intelligence agencies, argues in its recent report titled Global Trends 2025 that Turkey’s most likely course in the next 15 years involves a blending of Islamic and nationalist strains.
(...)
The NIC said it expected secularism in the Middle East to decline in line with the Turkish example. "In the Middle East, secularism, which also has been considered an integral part of the Western model, increasingly may be seen as out of place as Islamic parties come into prominence and possibly begin to run governments," it said. "As in today’s Turkey, we could see both increased Islamization and greater emphasis on economic growth and modernization." But a more Middle Eastern and Islamic Turkey is a candidate for more important roles, the NIC said.
US spies see stronger, Islamic Turkey in 2025


Full report:
http://www.dni.gov/nic/PDF_2025/2025_Global_Trends_Final_Report.pdf

Economic Growth Fueling Rise of Emerging Players

China is poised to
have more impact on the world over the next 20 years than any other country. If current trends
persist, by 2025 China will have the world’s second largest economy and will be a leading military power.
(...)
India probably will continue to enjoy relatively rapid economic growth and will strive for a multipolar world in which New Delhi is one of the poles.
(...)
Russia has the potential to be richer, more powerful, and more self-assured in 2025
if it invests in human capital, expands and diversifies its economy, and integrates with global markets. On the other hand, Russia could experience a significant decline if it fails to take these steps and oil and gas prices remain in the $50-70 per barrel range.
(...)
No other countries are
projected to rise to the level of China, India, or Russia, and none is likely to match their
individual global clout. We expect, however, to see the political and economic power of other
countries—such as Indonesia, Iran, and Turkey—increase.

It also says Indonesia, Iran and Turkey to shape the patterns of the Muslim world. In case of Iran, when it is run post-clerically.
In case of Turkey, Turkey must come to peace with Islamic identity.
Indonesia is a side-player in terms of geography and proximity to Muslim core lands.

 

[ekrem]

Turkey: the record-breaker
The Istanbul stock market today hit a new record high
(...)
12 per cent increase in gross domestic product in the first quarter, the world’s highest among larger economies except for China.
(...)
Turkish bank profits rose 14 per cent in the first five months of 2010
(...)
Turkey (...) has not been lionised like China, Brazil and India, but it is not far behind .
By European standards its prospects look stellar.

Financial Times
Turkey: the record-breaker | beyondbrics | FT.com

 

[ekrem]

"Die Zeit" (...) is the most widely read German weekly newspaper
(...) is considered to be highbrow (...)
Die Zeit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

highbrow is synonymous with intellectual; as an adjective, it also means elite, and generally carries a connotation of high culture
Highbrow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So, Turkey turns away. From America - and Europe at the same time.The reason is its dispute with Israel, the persistent pressure from Ankara on an Israeli apology for the bloody incident at the Gaza coast late May and the Turkish No to sanctions against Iran. Is Turkey lost for the West?

Here at the Bosporus one has the impression that nothing drifts away. The New is something different: The country is aware of the situation in which it is located since its foundation in 1923 - between Europe and the Middle East, Russia and North Africa.
Turkey does not close herself away from the environment, she has done so far as iron NATO ally of the West during the Cold War. She transforms from a bulwark to a new star of the region.

Behind this, many now recognize two ideologies:
Dreams of hegemony, Ottomanism - and temptations of religious stained policy - Islamism. Two common labels, but unfortunately the wrong one. What happened in Turkey, can be much better explained by the ideas that we know in the West well, because we have them invented. Capitalism and Democracy. Both have spread in Turkey dizzyingly fast, that now change her foreign policy.

So, if we take a look at balancesheets instead of catchwords like Koran and the Caliph, it becomes interesting. Turkey has been transformed from a closed command economy to a booming export nation. Where twenty years ago in Anatolia squeaked only donkey carts between fields, now the machines whir of medium-sized enterprises.
And exporting to all directions. Europe is the main market of the Turks, no one would want to turn away from it. In the coming are: the Black Sea countries, the Middle East, Africa. The new markets are changing the Turkish view of the world. And that is much larger than NATO. The single most important trading partner today - an economic reversal of alliances - Russia. From there comes natural gas and nuclear energy for the economy and living rooms of Turkey. In return cars, dishwashers, tomatoes and construction crews are sent to Russia. The governments of Russia and Turkey will meet several times a year, Russia's strongman Putin and Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan combines a close friendship-fire.

71 percent of Turks welcome globalization
The name of the ruling party AKP is translated into: Party for Justice and Development. This means growth and prosperity for all. When this party has any ideology, then it is business. The G-20 country is growing rapidly, and the Turks will find this good: 71 percent welcome globalization.

What Turkey needs for its success is, above all, peace - and no war. Here lies the crucial difference with Turkey of the earlier years. Turkey led a bloody war against the Kurds in Turkey and the Kurds in neighboring countries.
Turkey marched into Iraq. Turkey threatened Syria with war and attacked by a hair Greece. At that time Germany delayed the delivery of tanks and guns to Ankara - correctly.

Today, war is no longer the preferred instruments of Turkish foreign policy. She preferably speaks, sends diplomats to avoid what hurt the region most in recent years: Iraq, Lebanon war, Gaza war.
A war for Iran's nuclear facilities would be a nightmare for Ankara. Unlike Iran, but also USA and ISrael, Ankara does not see the Middle East as a theater of power-projection, but as an exhibition for products. Relaxation is the first duty of a retailer.

Turks mediated in Iraq, Lebanon, by the end of 2008 between Israel and Syria. In the dispute over Iran's nuclear program, they try to prevent any escalation. Even sanctions that harm the Turkish economy. A new alliance? Hardly. Most Turks are against it. "Turkey and Iran are neighbors and competitors" in the region, says Suat Kiniklioğlu, Erdoğan adviser and chief of foreign affairs within the AKP.
It's all about trade and energy. "It would not surprise me, however, if our rivalry will soon be felt in other areas."
The Turks know: Conflicts in the Middle East benefit the Iranian regime. With peace, Turkey is in front.

Read the budgets, not the Koran!
But why Israel does not benefit from the new Turkish policy? The explanation:
Because Israel and Turkey are democracies, the only ones in the Middle East. This may sound paradoxical? In Israel and Turkey, domestic and foreign policy are intertwined. Friendship with dictatorships is often easier. Israel's last truly safe ally lies in Egypt. There, 80 million Egyptians condemn Israel. Does not matter - the President and the Intelligence Chief are loyal to Israel. That counts.
But In Turkey, there are many that count. The government, the opposition, the media, the people. Just as in Israel.

Now, how is this exactly between Erdoğan and Israel? In 2005 Erdogan met in Jerusalem with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. Both went along. Even during the first week of the Gaza war in late 2008, Erdogan was barely audible. Then, on 4th January 2009 the Felicity Party (Saadet) called for a demonstration. Saadet - these are the Islamists, the competition for the conservative-capitalist AKP from the Islamist right.
Almost a hundred thousand Turks visited the Saadet demonstration - in the pouring rain.
Now Erdoğan also began to denounce Israel. And he did not stop again. As in 2003, when Chancelor Gerhard Schröder was applauded on the marketplace of Goslar city, the masses now applauded Erdoğan when he railed against the war.
In the spring of 2009 Turkey was going to regional elections.

These are the hours of the polarizer. Erdoğan rides on the conflict between Israel-Palestine. One subject that he can raise at will, when it is of use to him. He knows how popular the Turks are with the Palestinians. The Suppressed enjoy sympathy, especially as most Turks see themselves as victims of sinister forces.
In this frame of mind the No to Iran sanctions in the Security Council fit Erdogan. Afterwards, Turkish diplomats argumented the "no" was "straight lines", after the U.S. had ignored the mediation of Turkey and Brazil regarding the Uranium swap deal.
This sounds more like straightening. The "No" has benefit Erdoğan's poll numbers, but the image of Turkey in the west was extremely hurt.

It is not clear how far the Prime Minister with the mixture of Populism and Politmachismo will go. Foreign Minister Davutoğlu seeks to dampen the emotions. Last week he met with the Israeli Industry Minister Ben-Eliezer in Brussels. The Israelian Industry Minister negotiated on behalf of Avidgor Lieberman. Even Netanyahu and Erdogan can not speak.

Solidarity with the Palestinians promised political gains
Is everything better when Erdoğan is gone? The nationalist opposition said it will send military convoys to support Aid convoys. Erdoğan did not.
In his term, Turkey has further democratized. The Kurds have gained rights, prosecutors lost their omnipotence. The large media company "Dogan" was brusquely crushed, but diversity in media landscape has increased. The number of NGOs has increased dramatically. The baleful influence of the military in politics has declined. Since the nineties Turkey has become capitalist and democratic, more similar to Europe.

If there just would not be this new Turkish Middle East foreign policy... But is it really that bad for Europe?
Imagine the Middle East before without Turkey: the Arab world weakened, Israel and Iran the only main competitors, the war in sight. With Turkey a necessary third player is on the field. Turkey is trading, it conveys, it embodies a democratic option for Muslims, it exports television shows, where women in short skirts sink in fife-minute kisses with her lover. It is a secular country with a faithful prime minister. The mixture is attractive in the Middle East. Erdoğan has replaced Hezbollah leader Nasrallah as long-time most popular politician in the Arab world.

But Is Turkey isolating herself elsewhere with this policy? The many magnificent summits at the Bosporus tell the opposite: Indians, Koreans, Brazilians, Indonesians, South Africans, Congolese, Kazakhs, Russians, Arabs, Iranians, Bosnians.
Istanbul is one of the ballet rooms of our chaotic century.
The hall door for the western dancer is wide open. Really happy they are when they can welcome Obama. Turkey does not turn off from the West. The difference is, now it dances also with others. Europe and America should not be offended and cancel the dance.

Die Türkei & der Westen: Lest die Bilanzen, nicht den Koran! ? Seite 2 | Politik | ZEIT ONLINE

 

[ekrem]

German State Television, ARD


German diplomats in Washington say the U.S. had not really realized how their position has changed in the world and that countries like Turkey are quite ready to confront the Americans as strategic regional competitors to achieve their political and economic interests.

It is just over a year ago when the Obama government had big plans for its relations with Turkey: A model for the world they should be, the partnership between a predominantly Christian and predominantly Muslim country, a western nation, and one which spans two continents. So it was said by President Barack Obama during his visit to Turkey in April 2009.
But what happened in the past weeks and months, is not a picture of an exemplary partnership. And causes unrest in Washington. Turkey duped the United States in the nuclear dispute with Iran, took an active policy in the Middle East against Israel and is seeking new alliances, including with Syria.

EU to blame for "creeping Islamization" of Turkey?
"Turning to the East" titled the magazine "Time" recently in a major story on Turkey. In it the creeping Islamisation of the country is analyzed and how Turkey is turning from the West. Among other things, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates is quoted. He already identified the bad guy: the European Union, which denies membership for Turkey. The quote of Robert Gates: "If it is true that Turkey is drifting to the east, then because it has been driven by those in Europe who have denied the organic connection to the West that Turkey is seeking."

USA want back the good old days
EU-bashing and Islamization-theories? Steven Cook, from the influential Washington think-tank "Council on Foreign Relations" sees it differently:
"such explanations are too simple." he tells TVO, the Canadian TV station. "It is tempting simply to suggest that Turkey makes an Islamist foreign policy and drifts eastward. I do not think that this is the case. In my opinion, the Turkish leadership recognized the new opportunities arising for them from the changed world order. Any Turkish government - regardless of whether Islamic or not - would in principle make the same foreign policy. " Cook sees a large part of U.S. policy arrested in nostalgia when it comes to Turkey. "We want back the good old days and do not undertake in-depth analysis of the causes of the current problems."

Neo-conservatives want to exclude Turkey from NATO
German diplomats in Washington say the U.S. had not really realized how their position has changed in the world and that countries like Turkey are quite ready to confront the Americans as strategic regional competitors to achieve their political and economic interests.
While American leaders, including Defense Secretary Robert Gates are warm advocates of Turkey, Turkey also receives headwinds from the U.S.. Among the neo-conservatives, actually those who were very friendly to Turkey iin the past, Ankara has made enemies with his Israel policy.
The "Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, a prominent neo-conservative hard-line group, urged the U.S. government to put military cooperation with Turkey on ice and exclude the country from NATO.

USA should not fear the rise of Turkey
It is unclear what will happen now. Is the U.S. government to re-define its relationship with Turkey? Reduces the strategic value of Turkey as an American outpost in the region such as the magazine "Time" analyzed? Or have the Turks long ago already taken this decision out of US's hand and created facts?

In an article that recently appeared in The New York Times, an unnamed permanent representative of the U.S. government explains: The U.S. should not fear the regional rise of Turkey, he says. This curbs the influence of Iran in the Middle East and Turkey send a strong important signal to the Muslim World as a democracy with a thriving economy and NATO partner. This signal can only be send, if they are not perceived as a tool of the Americans.

Analyse: USA suchen nach neuer Türkei-Strategie | tagesschau.de

 

[ekrem]

German State Radio, Deutsche Welle

Soft Power for Afghanistan
"Our special relationship with Afghanistan could lead us to develop a different approach, no matter what the West [NATO] will do in the future."
Suat Kiniklioglu, member of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Turkish parliament and foreign policy spokesman of the AKP.

When Turkish politicians speak of a "different approach", usually the magic word "soft power" falls short after. What is meant is that the Turks want to build more schools and hospitals for example. The Afghans should be better trained and supplied. Desired is, that private Turkish companies invest in the Afghan infrastructure.

Successes is visible
Every day some 900 Afghans are coming to Turkish built hospitals. Each treatment is free. In the last eight years some 800,000 Afghans could be helped medically. And in 34 Turkish schools more than 50,000 Afghan children learn reading and writing. Many of them learn Turkish.
But that should not be all.
Turkey wants to build another 35 more clinics and schools.
However the country also pursues economic interests in Afghanistan. Latest infrastructure project is a railway line from Pakistan via Afghanistan and Iran to Turkey.

Türkische "Soft-Power" für Afghanistan | Europa | Deutsche Welle | 20.07.2010

Umbrella organization of German Jews says:

Turkey is not to become a theocracy governed by sharia. Forces that want an Islamic state, play a marginal role in Turkey and under any realistic scenario they are not in a position to push the nation in that direction.
However, it is true that the country undergoes a change in foreign policy, in which Islam represents an important component.
The main objective of Turkish foreign policy is the rise as a regional power and to become an important player on the global stage. Islam is seen as the dominant part of the Turkish national identity. This is why the Turkish leadership wants to take its place among the Great of world politics through the aspect of being a Muslim country within the great. At the same time Turkey sees herself as a representative of the Islamic world and wants to help Islam around the globe to get respect.

The solidarity of the Turkish public lies with the Palestinians.
However, the Arab-Israeli conflict is an area in which Turkey wants to prevail as a peace maker. In the new Middle East, accordingly Israel should lose power. In order to force the Israeli government into concessions, Ankara tries to press Israel into a corner. Recent events with the flotilla have shown that Erdogan has succeeded in this corner-pushing. If Israel can not be brought to reason, the situation could deteriorate further. For Israel, a open hostile Turkey would be very dangerous.
Zentralrat der Juden in Deutschland: Spiel mit Gefahr

 

[hipeter924]

Turkey is in theory 99% Muslim.
About 15 to 20 Million Turks follow Alevite direction of Islam.
Alevi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kilicdaroglu is Alevite and Turkish Kurd.
He would be the first Prime Minister of Turkey not being Sunnite.
Kemal K?l?çdaro?lu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe a chance for a secular Turkey then? You know one without the whole "can't discuss genocide" or "Kurds and minorities" attitude. Perhaps if Turks took off their "we can't do anything wrong hat", and saw reality and actually tried to respect Kurds and minorities the civil war would end and Turkey would become a European Union member within the next 5 to 10 years, rather than never. Also as for the Armenian genocide Turkish nationalists are lying when they say Turkey has to recognize the genocide and give reparations to Armenian to join the EU, that is just blatant scare tactics and lies. What the EU wants is for Turkey to allow free discussion of the genocide issue, it doesn't require recognition.

 

[ekrem]

German State Television, ARD
Does Ankara show a a new-political self-confidence, which - as is being claimed - is turning away from Europe and seeks a new home in the Middle East?
The question can only be answered through long-term and accurate looking.
So, everyone that follows Turkish politics sees this:
Under Prime Minister Erdogan, Ankara has improved its relations with ALL neighbors. This refers to Syria, Iraq and Iran, which is also true for Armenia, where there was previously no contacts, and for the relationship to the former arch-enemy Greece. Last month, the Greek and Turkish Cabinets came together in a joint Cabinet meeting.
Türkei: Weiterhin auf Europakurs oder Wende hin zum Orient? | tagesschau.de


Zurich Newspaper

Erdogan's bilance
- started membership talks with EU
- Turkey chairs the 57 nation Organization of Islamic Conference
- extremely engaged neighbouring countries, especially Russia
- now, once a year the leaders of the Arab League come to meet in Istanbul
Trkei wird Regionalmacht (International, NZZ Online)

 

[hipeter924]

German State Television, ARD
Does Ankara show a a new-political self-confidence, which - as is being claimed - is turning away from Europe and seeks a new home in the Middle East?
The question can only be answered through long-term and accurate looking.
So, everyone that follows Turkish politics sees this:
Under Prime Minister Erdogan, Ankara has improved its relations with ALL neighbors. This refers to Syria, Iraq and Iran, which is also true for Armenia, where there was previously no contacts, and for the relationship to the former arch-enemy Greece. Last month, the Greek and Turkish Cabinets came together in a joint Cabinet meeting.
Türkei: Weiterhin auf Europakurs oder Wende hin zum Orient? | tagesschau.de


Zurich Newspaper

Erdogan's bilance
- started membership talks with EU
- Turkey chairs the 57 nation Organization of Islamic Conference
- extremely engaged neighbouring countries, especially Russia
- now, once a year the leaders of the Arab League come to meet in Istanbul
Trkei wird Regionalmacht (International, NZZ Online)

Moving towards Islamic nations is a bad idea.*

*Trade okay, but anything else....Islamic theocracy comes to mind. As for Iran, it will become secular in this century I hope.

 

[ekrem]

Turkish Schools Offer Pakistan a Gentler Vision of Islam
“Whatever the West has of science, let our kids have it,” said Erkam Aytav, a Turk who works in the new schools. “But let our kids have their religion as well.”
That approach appeals to parents in Pakistan, who want their children to be capable of competing with the West without losing their identities to it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/world/asia/04islam.html?fta=y


The Gülen Movement operates these schools. There are other movements, too, but Gülen is biggest.

In 2009 Newsweek claimed that movement participants run "schools in which more than 2 million students receive education, many with full scholarships".[11] Estimates of the number of schools and educational institutions vary widely, from about 300 schools in Turkey [12] to over 1,000 schools worldwide.[13]

Gülen movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ekrem]

Turkish Schools Offer Pakistan a Gentler Vision of Islam
“Whatever the West has of science, let our kids have it,” said Erkam Aytav, a Turk who works in the new schools. “But let our kids have their religion as well.”
That approach appeals to parents in Pakistan, who want their children to be capable of competing with the West without losing their identities to it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/world/asia/04islam.html?fta=y


The Gülen Movement operates these schools. There are other movements, too, but Gülen is biggest.

In 2009 Newsweek claimed that movement participants run "schools in which more than 2 million students receive education, many with full scholarships".[11] Estimates of the number of schools and educational institutions vary widely, from about 300 schools in Turkey [12] to over 1,000 schools worldwide.[13]

Gülen movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The movement consists primarily of students, teachers, businessman, journalists and other educated professionals[4], arranged in a flexible organizational network.[5] It has founded schools, universities, an employers' association, as well as charities, real estate trusts, lobby groups, student bodies, radio and television stations, and newspapers.[2] The schools and businesses organize locally, and link into networks on an informal rather than legal basis.[6] After an inquiry into the effects of movement's activities in Holland, Dutch Integration Minister Eberhard Van der Laan described it as "an alliance of loosely affiliated independent institutions rather than a movement."[7]
The Economist described the Gülen movement as a Turkish-based movement which sounds more reasonable than most of its rivals, and which is vying to be recognized as the world's leading Muslim network.[8] It stated that Gülen has won praise from non-Muslim quarters with his belief in science, inter-faith dialog and multi-party democracy. Nilüfer Göle, professor of sociology at the Ecole des Hautes Etudes in Paris, who is known for her studies on modernization and conservatism, has described the Gülen movement as the world's most global movement.[9]

Gülen movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am no fan of them. Fethullah Gülen lives in Pennsylvania, USA.
He emigrated there, after being declared persona-non-grata in Turkey in the various confusions of chaos that Turkey faced in the 90's.

 

[ekrem]

Moving towards Islamic nations is a bad idea.*
(...)

This point of yours, maybe I will discuss with more serious users then you are.
Besides that, the achievements of Mr. Erdogan in his 2 terms are colossal.
He is a real dinosaur in this regard, and rhetorically no one in Turkey can catch up with him.

To beat someone like Mr. Erdogan, which very likely will be achieved by Mr. Kilicdaroglu should give you a picture about him. In Turkey his nickname is "Gandhi Kemal".
He is a Crusader against corruption.
Kiilicdaroglu already forced leading AKP members to diminish from the political landscape, as he shared documents of corruption regarding them.

Most notable victom was Deputy leader of AKP, Mehmet Firat.
Dengir Mir Mehmet F?rat - Vikipedi
That person now is in retirment.

 

[hipeter924]

Moving towards Islamic nations is a bad idea.*
(...)

This point of yours, maybe I will discuss with more serious users then you are.
Besides that, the achievements of Mr. Erdogan in his 2 terms are colossal.
He is a real dinosaur in this regard, and rhetorically no one in Turkey can catch up with him.

To beat someone like Mr. Erdogan, which very likely will be achieved by Mr. Kilicdaroglu should give you a picture about him. In Turkey his nickname is "Gandhi Kemal".
He is a Crusader against corruption.
Kiilicdaroglu already forced leading AKP members to diminish from the political landscape, as he shared documents of corruption regarding them.

Most notable victom was Deputy leader of AKP, Mehmet Firat.
Dengir Mir Mehmet F?rat - Vikipedi
That person now is in retirment.

He's a foul mouthed oaf, full time liar and genocide denier. Who after years of supporting Jews and Israel and betraying the Muslim world has had a so-called 'change of heart'. By both the Koran and the Bible I know he is going to burn in hell.*

*I am an atheist, but that doesn't mean I haven't read what happens to people who betray the religious text. Just that if I am going to hell, Erdogan will be treated worse than an atheist like me because of what he has done.

From the "KITALUT-TURK" ("WAR WITH TURKS") hadiths : “War with Turks will certainly
occur.”… (Bukhari, e's-Sahih, Kitabu'l-Cihad/96)
“This is a sign for the doomsday, too: You will fight the people who wear shoes which are
made of bristle and kill them. The fight against the people with wide shield faces is a sign for the
doomsday. The doomsday won't come until you kill the little eyed, red faced, pug nosed, shield
faced, thick skinned Turks.."( Bukhari, e's-Sahih, kitabu'l-Cihad/95; Muslim, e's-Sahih,
Kitabu'l-Fiten/66, hadith #: 2912; İbn Maja, hadith #: 4097-4098).

“You (Muslims) and the little eyed people, Turks are going to fight. You are going to run after
them 3 times. Finally you are going to meet them in the Arabic peninsula. At first, *whoever can
run away will survive. In the second time, *some will escape and some will be killed. In the third
time, all of them will be destroyed.(Abu Dawod, sünen, hadith #: 4305.)

http://www.turandursun.net/en/pdf/criticism/turks-cant-be-muslims-even-if-they-want-to-be.pdf

See, Mohammad hates Turks. You can never be true Muslims, in fact he says the same things about Jews as he does about Turks e.g. Turks will be exterminated as well as the Jews. But you still support Islam.