On the Past Days

Annie

Diamond Member
Nov 22, 2003
50,848
4,827
1,790
Where are the Libertarians? I don't feel at home with the GOP.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7185555/#050324

March 23, 2005 | 11:24 PM ET

In their book, The Right Nation: Conservative Power in America, authors John Micklethwait and Adrian Wooldridge predict steady growth for the conservative movement in America, unless something goes wrong to derail its trajectory. But things can always go wrong. How could the Republican coalition fail? By being "too Southern, too greedy, and too contradictory."

Right now it's aiming at two out of three. Greed, of course, is not uncommon in politics, but as David Brooks notes, it's on the upswing, with Republicans engaging in the very kinds of behaviors they deplored from Democrats:

Back in 1995, when Republicans took over Congress, a new cadre of daring and original thinkers arose. These bold innovators had a key insight: that you no longer had to choose between being an activist and a lobbyist. You could be both. You could harness the power of K Street to promote the goals of Goldwater, Reagan and Gingrich. And best of all, you could get rich while doing it!

Before long, ringleader Grover Norquist and his buddies were signing lobbying deals with the Seychelles and the Northern Mariana Islands and talking up their interests at weekly conservative strategy sessions - what could be more vital to the future of freedom than the commercial interests of these two fine locales?

Before long, folks like Norquist and Abramoff were talking up the virtues of international sons of liberty like Angola's Jonas Savimbi and Congo's dictator Mobutu Sese Seko - all while receiving compensation from these upstanding gentlemen, according to The Legal Times. Only a reactionary could have been so discomfited by Savimbi's little cannibalism problem as to think this was not a daring contribution to the cause of Reaganism.

Not very impressive. Nor is Jack Kemp's behavior in "actively shilling" for Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez. And, of course, the bankruptcy "reform" bill -- which, as I mentioned earlier, was a giveaway to big business -- seems to have been based on greed, too.

There's also a lot of contradiction lately. After talking about small government and the rule of law, Republicans overwhelmingly supported a piece of legislation intended to influence a single case, that of Terri Schiavo. As former Solicitor General Charles Fried observes:

In their intervention in the Terri Schiavo matter, Republicans in Congress and President Bush have, in a few brief legislative clauses, embraced the kind of free-floating judicial activism, disregard for orderly procedure and contempt for the integrity of state processes that they quite rightly have denounced and sought to discipline for decades.

I think he's right. As with Bill Hobbs, quoted below, I don't have an opinion on what should happen to Terry Schiavo -- though given the rather large numbers of judges who have looked at this case over the years I'd be especially reluctant to interfere. Can they all be deranged advocates of a "culture of death?" But regardless of the merits, Congress's involvement in this case seems quite "unconservative" to me, at least if one believes in rules of general application. Florida has a general law, and it's been followed. That people don't like the result isn't a reason for unprecedented Congressional action, unless results are all that matter.

Ryan Sager looks at this, in conjunction with last week's hearings on steroids and baseball, and comments:

In coming years, political historians might look back and try to pinpoint the day or week or month that the Republican Party shed the last vestiges of its small-government philosophy. If and when they do, the week just past should make the short list. For it was in this last week that the Republican-controlled Congress made it clear that it sees no area of American life -- none too trivial and none too intimate -- that the federal government should not permeate with its power.

It can all be summed up in two words: steroids and Schiavo. If there is an issue less deserving of Congressional attention than whether a few overpaid, bat-wielding jocks might have injected themselves with substances to help them wield their bats better, then it has yet to be discovered by the House's Government Reform Committee, which held last week's hearings.
...
But if Congress' dealings with the trivial are appalling, they are nothing compared to its exploitation of the tragic.

There, we have the sad case of Terri Schiavo, the Florida woman in a "permanent vegetative state" whose feeding tube had been removed at her husband's urging -- and based on a court's findings regarding her wishes on the matter only to have Congress and President Bush intervene ostensibly on her behalf.

Putting aside the tangled facts of the case for the moment -- which include some bitter family history and selective science on both sides -- the driving question here should be: Does Congress have a role?

And when it comes to a family dispute over a painful medical decision, one which at least 19 judges in six courts have already adjudicated, the answer must be a resounding "no."
The forums for matters such as the Schiavo case are state courts, upholding state laws. Conservatives, especially religious conservatives -- who want Roe v. Wade overturned and the issue of abortion moved back to state legislatures and courts -- should understand this better than any other group of Americans.

A while back, I wrote about the problem of "fair-weather federalism," but judging by the past week things look to be getting much worse. So will the Republican coalition fracture under these pressures?

Quite possibly. National security is the glue that has held Bush's coalition together. The war isn't over, and we haven't won yet, but it's going well -- Austin Bay notes that it's a war that we are winning -- and this is allowing the divisions to show. All of the people I've quoted are on the right, and they're all unhappy. One may argue that libertarians and small-government conservatives aren't a big part of Bush's coalition, but his victory wasn't so huge that the Republicans can surrender very many votes and still expect to win. So this is a real threat. (Some people are even writing articles with titles like Saving the Marriage: Conservatism and Libertarianism.)

Can this marriage be saved? Only if one of the partners -- and it's not the libertarian side -- realizes that its behavior is hurting the marriage, and decides to restrain itself. Are conservatives capable of sufficient self-restraint? On the evidence, that's not to be taken for granted, and it may cost the Republicans. In fact, National Review blogger Jim Geraghty reproduces a couple of reader emails that illustrate how costly it may be:

Just to let you know - this conservative Republican, who has never voted for a Democrat... will probably start doing so - against my financial interests I might add - solely because of the Schiavo action by Congress. I am staunchy pro-life — but in this instance the matter has been litigated over and over, and the evidence is overwhelming that a) there's no hope for recovery for this woman and b) her wish would not to be forced to continue in this horrible state. (and yes, i am putting a value to life - hard to imagine anyone wanting to live this way - it's just common sense) I find her parents' actions unconscionable (the action of putting video of this poor woman out all over the world - how cruel), though I certainly understand the desire to see their child improve....

---

I'm Republican voter, voted for Bush twice, with high enthusiasm both times...
Today you asked:

"In November 2006, voters across the country will turn against the GOP because they fear that Congress will pass individually-targeted laws that prevent patients from being deliberately starved to death?"

This voter might. I am very, very unhappy right now. Use whatever language you like. This "law," using the word loosely, makes a mockery of federalism.

Geraghty thinks there aren't many voters like this out there. Republican strategists had better hope he's right.
 
"Just to let you know - this conservative Republican, who has never voted for a Democrat... will probably start doing so - against my financial interests I might add - solely because of the Schiavo action by Congress."

Eh, sorta like burning your house down to get rid of an ant colony eh? This will be a non issue in a month or two, almost totally forgotten by '06.
 
theim said:
"Just to let you know - this conservative Republican, who has never voted for a Democrat... will probably start doing so - against my financial interests I might add - solely because of the Schiavo action by Congress."

Eh, sorta like burning your house down to get rid of an ant colony eh? This will be a non issue in a month or two, almost totally forgotten by '06.

She will not be with us, that is true. As I've written previously, I think there were legitimate questions for the family, I know I would have had them if that were my sister, based upon all we have heard about her husband. I think this is so sad, but some version of it is worked on by states and families every day, not to this degree of course.

The issue of government interference though, will NOT be gone. Eh, it's been with us since the inception. It seems the GOP right now is falling into triangulating itself right into becoming the Democratic Party, perhaps throwing some democrats temperorialy I'm sure, into Republican positions. :rolleyes: I can't believe this has happened in less than 6 months from the election.

Same thing with the steroids, though it would certainly be tough to get worked up about rich ballplayers, the very idea that hearings on such with attendant grandstanding were being held while there are serious problems with war, gas prices, inflation creeping, etc., does not bode well to me.
 
Kathianne said:
The issue of government interference though, will NOT be gone. Eh, it's been with us since the inception. It seems the GOP right now is falling into triangulating itself right into becoming the Democratic Party, perhaps throwing some democrats temperorialy I'm sure, into Republican positions. :rolleyes: I can't believe this has happened in less than 6 months from the election.



Ah, well - I guess we can't agree on everything, huh? :) But, I don't think any rational states-rights advocate has ever said that federal intervention is ALWAYS a bad thing. There's intervention and there's intervention. Sixty years of bastardizing the Constitution in the name of an elitist social agenda is one thing; raising jurisdictional questions in a due process matter involving life and death is quite another. I don't think the wheels are coming off the conservative revolution just yet.



Kathianne said:
Same thing with the steroids, though it would certainly be tough to get worked up about rich ballplayers, the very idea that hearings on such with attendant grandstanding were being held while there are serious problems with war, gas prices, inflation creeping, etc., does not bode well to me.


Ah, but Major League Baseball doesn't mind government interference while their sport is enjoying anti-trust exemption, do they? No, I'd have to say that baseball is a special case. Since, A) they are national in scope, playing in - what - 27 differerent U.S. cities?, B) they have shown a consistent inability or unwillingness to police themselves, and C) whether we like it or not, these sociopathic ingrates are heroes and role models to our kids, something has to be done. If not the federal government - who?
 
Kathianne said:
The issue of government interference though, will NOT be gone. Eh, it's been with us since the inception. It seems the GOP right now is falling into triangulating itself right into becoming the Democratic Party, perhaps throwing some democrats temperorialy I'm sure, into Republican positions. :rolleyes: I can't believe this has happened in less than 6 months from the election.



musicman said:
Ah, well - I guess we can't agree on everything, huh? :) But, I don't think any rational states-rights advocate has ever said that federal intervention is ALWAYS a bad thing. There's intervention and there's intervention. Sixty years of bastardizing the Constitution in the name of an elitist social agenda is one thing; raising jurisdictional questions in a due process matter involving life and death is quite another. I don't think the wheels are coming off the conservative revolution just yet.


Well as you say, we can't agree on everything. I think the wheels are flat right now and too few are even noticing. It's a sort of 'the Emperor has no clothes thing.' Doing the same wrong things as have been done, is not going to fix the problem. If the feds really thought that the state of Florida has bad law, then they should have taken them to court on constitutional grounds, but that would take time, time Terri didn't have. On the other hand, that would be a replication of Roe V Wade, which may well get overturned one day, since the law overstepped in taking away state's rights. Not only words, but logic too matters.


musicman said:
Ah, but Major League Baseball doesn't mind government interference while their sport is enjoying anti-trust exemption, do they? No, I'd have to say that baseball is a special case. Since, A) they are national in scope, playing in - what - 27 differerent U.S. cities?, B) they have shown a consistent inability or unwillingness to police themselves, and C) whether we like it or not, these sociopathic ingrates are heroes and role models to our kids, something has to be done. If not the federal government - who?

Well in my opinion, the feds could find a way to fine them right out of existence, if the MLB is not following the law. As far as the anti-trust, again that was bad law, so now we want this government to compound the mistakes?

Regarding the whole issue of role models, I would disagree that a ball player is a hero, I would say that parents should read what is going on and take their kids to watch some of the minor league games, where they'll save a ton of $, the kids will get autographs, and they'll see a decent game.
 
The Feds were asked to step in and revue the case--------they upheld the State Court rulings EVERYTIME and in this manner confirmed the rights of states to handle these affairs. There may have been a problem if something was overturned but it ain't gonna happen. I agree with Theim---when Terris' gone the only issue left will be living wills and the right to die discussions. I predict no politicl fallout.
 
Mr. P said:
I think he's wrong, we'll see.

Right now we can only guess. I can tell you this much for certain - you can number me among those who staunchly supported Republicans in the past but now I'm beginning to view them with ever increasing skepticism.

I believe that if the Republicans continue to act as arrogantly as they currently are, there will be hell to pay in 2008. 59 million people came out to support conservative views and defeat the record number of libs - both living and dead - who came to the polls in '04. If the Republican party fails to live up to the trust and expectations of those 59 million voters, then not a single lib will have to show up at the polls in '08 because Republicans will be thrown out into the street by their own constituency.
 
dilloduck said:
The Feds were asked to step in and revue the case--------they upheld the State Court rulings EVERYTIME and in this manner confirmed the rights of states to handle these affairs. There may have been a problem if something was overturned but it ain't gonna happen. I agree with Theim---when Terris' gone the only issue left will be living wills and the right to die discussions. I predict no politicl fallout.

I disagree on this one. I think you're going to see the libs jumping all over this one. Republicans acted inappropriately and with no regard for the Constitution or the courts. They trampled all over state's rights. The meddled in a court case in the most inappropriate ways conceivable. First by stupid tricks, inventing a bogus investigation which made Terri Schiavo "evidence". When that didn't fool anyone, they passed a law which applies to only one person.

No, this won't be forgotten. I won't forget it - ever. And you can bet your last dollar that the Democrats are going to remind the country of this episode so long and so loud that it will make your ears bleed.

Republicans are going to pay a huge price for this.
 
Lots of links to dirty tricks:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/001850.htm

MSM IGNORES SCHIAVO MEMO STORY
By Michelle Malkin · March 25, 2005 07:05 AM
Yesterday, Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-New Jersey) asked for a formal investigation of the fishy Schiavo memo and its source. You might think this qualifies as news, but it appears that the South Florida Sun-Sentinel was the only newspaper in the entire country to cover it. (And the Sun-Sentinel's coverage consists of only two sentences.)

It's déjà vu all over again!

Related: Kurtz keeps quiet.

Update: If MSM editors and producers really understood blogs they would stop running silly segments such as this and start incorporating blog-reported stories into their everyday news coverage.
 
Merlin1047 said:
I disagree on this one. I think you're going to see the libs jumping all over this one. Republicans acted inappropriately and with no regard for the Constitution or the courts. They trampled all over state's rights. The meddled in a court case in the most inappropriate ways conceivable. First by stupid tricks, inventing a bogus investigation which made Terri Schiavo "evidence". When that didn't fool anyone, they passed a law which applies to only one person.

No, this won't be forgotten. I won't forget it - ever. And you can bet your last dollar that the Democrats are going to remind the country of this episode so long and so loud that it will make your ears bleed.

Republicans are going to pay a huge price for this.


Won't this shine a mighty bright light on the abortion ruling where the feds stomped all over states rights??--I'm not sure they want that. The dems of run and hidden from this issue.Do you hear any of em using this perfect opportuntiy to make political hay?
 
A bit more on the memo:

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/004156.php

March 25, 2005
Another Exempt Media Blackout?
Michelle Malkin is all over what appears to be another Exempt Media blackout. Despite every news outlet covering the supposed "GOP Talking Points" on the Schiavo litigation when the story first broke, now that the memo appears to have been fraudulent, suddenly no one wants to talk about it. Howard Kurtz, Michelle notes, has not written a word on it since Power Line first challenged the memo's authenticity in a series of posts. The only newspaper that covered Democratic Senator Frank Lautenberg's call for an investigation into the memo's creation was, oddly, the South Florida Sun-Sentinel -- which gave it two lines.

Regardless what one thinks of the Schiavo case, this suspicious memo should be getting some attention, especially since it broke as headline news last weekend in an attempt to discredit the GOP by questioning their motivations. If a GOP staffer wrote it, he or she should be fired for sheer incompetence alone, but it would be good for us to know that. However, it looks more like an amateurish attempt to smear the Republicans -- and the silence of the Exempt Media suggests that they know it, too.

It looks like Eason's Fables all over again, doesn't it?
 
Kathianne said:
Well as you say, we can't agree on everything. I think the wheels are flat right now and too few are even noticing. It's a sort of 'the Emperor has no clothes thing.' Doing the same wrong things as have been done, is not going to fix the problem.



But I honestly didn't see any wrong things being done. There was clearly a XIVth Amendment issue - and not of the excruciating variety typical of liberal social engineers. Where state law comes into conflict with the Bill of Rghts, the Bill of Rights must prevail. If a person possibly being deprived of her life without due process doesn't constitute a violation of the Bill of Rights, I don't know what does. I can't see where Congress had any choice - all branches of government are sworn to uphold the law.



Kathianne said:
Regarding the whole issue of role models, I would disagree that a ball player is a hero, I would say that parents should read what is going on and take their kids to watch some of the minor league games, where they'll save a ton of $, the kids will get autographs, and they'll see a decent game.



Couldn't agree more, and in a saner world, that's exactly what would happen. Sanity takes time to catch on, though - unfortunately - and meanwhile, somebody has to deal with this insane situation. Because of the national scope of the sport, I just don't see who else but the federal government is in a position to do it.

And, just in case you're beginning to think I've gone completely off my coconut, let me assure you that it galls me to say these things. Our founding fathers understood that intrusive, centralized government is the ENEMY - and I sure agree. But, sometimes, federal intervention is indicated.
 
musicman said:
But I honestly didn't see any wrong things being done. There was clearly a XIVth Amendment issue - and not of the excruciating variety typical of liberal social engineers. Where state law comes into conflict with the Bill of Rghts, the Bill of Rights must prevail. If a person possibly being deprived of her life without due process doesn't constitute a violation of the Bill of Rights, I don't know what does. I can't see where Congress had any choice - all branches of government are sworn to uphold the law.

Couldn't agree more, and in a saner world, that's exactly what would happen. Sanity takes time to catch on, though - unfortunately - and meanwhile, somebody has to deal with this insane situation. Because of the national scope of the sport, I just don't see who else but the federal government is in a position to do it.

And, just in case you're beginning to think I've gone completely off my coconut, let me assure you that it galls me to say these things. Our founding fathers understood that intrusive, centralized government is the ENEMY - and I sure agree. But, sometimes, federal intervention is indicated.

I respectfully disagree, the argument being made is based on the idea that the people are 'too dumb' or 'too much sheep' to understand what has been going on. Addressing people's misconceptions is to me, the job of the party that wishes to win. Joining in by making 'other bad law' is not the way to go. They have left the door open for the democrats to walk in and hammer on the errors of the way. Remember, many people left the Democratic Party very reluctantly, it would be easy for them to return.

Our luck is that the Dem. Party hardliners are too insane to recognize this.
 
Merlin1047 said:
Right now we can only guess. I can tell you this much for certain - you can number me among those who staunchly supported Republicans in the past but now I'm beginning to view them with ever increasing skepticism.

I believe that if the Republicans continue to act as arrogantly as they currently are, there will be hell to pay in 2008. 59 million people came out to support conservative views and defeat the record number of libs - both living and dead - who came to the polls in '04. If the Republican party fails to live up to the trust and expectations of those 59 million voters, then not a single lib will have to show up at the polls in '08 because Republicans will be thrown out into the street by their own constituency.

Just as I see it Merlin.
 
Voters in the last election were very clear in saying that morality and values were the #1 reason they voted for Bush. They didn't care that we again went to war WITHOUT a declaration by congress,which is contrued by many as the executive branch over stepping it's powers---are you sure the people are that interested in the separation of powers?
 
dilloduck said:
....---are you sure the people are that interested in the separation of powers?
Most of em...just watch.
Heard a poll this a.m. 82% of those polled said they didn't think the Congress had any business in this case..only 13% did.
From the voting results in 2004, I would suggest the GOP may have pickedup that 13%..If their smart they'll Dump em fast..
 

Forum List

Back
Top