On The Iraqi Civilian Casualties

Annie

Diamond Member
Nov 22, 2003
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Charts, Graphs at site:

http://www.logictimes.com/civilian.htm

The Civilian Casualty Fable
Commentary by Aslan, 11/26/05, 10:46am. Comments (0)



"Tanks, flowers and civilian casualties"



"The gruesome number of U.S. war dead pales in comparison to the loss of life suffered by Iraqis," the anti-war A.N.S.W.E.R. coalition, which organized a protest last month that drew more than 100,000 demonstrators in Washington, said in a statement marking the 2,000th U.S. death. (here)

One of the foundation blocks of anti-war protest against the United States in Iraq is civilian casualties, which viscerally represents a country in ruin, a tragic human face on Bush’s warmongering. This perspective, of course, ignores the civilian carnage during the reign of Saddam Hussein (see Fuzzy Moral Math) and instead focuses on the perceived chaos in Iraq today. And this newfound concern for Iraqi civilian life is not only a staple of the anti-war Left, it is a convenient club wielded by mainstream Democrats in Washington, who argue that chaos in Iraq represents failed policy.

With so much emphasis on Iraqi civilian death, one would expect the casualty statistics to be very well understood. An uncritical audience, for example, might be inclined to accept at face value the Lancet (a British medical journal) analysis estimating 100,000 civilian casualties, a "study" that has been widely discredited by credible groups on both sides of the debate. Yet the public is still inundated with high casualty numbers, and anti-war protesters continue to carry signs tallying up the massive numbers of civilian dead.

There is indeed a mind-blowing story about collateral damage that needs to be told, but that story is one in which we honor the extraordinary achievement of the United States military: two years of combat since the fall of Baghdad, much of it urban warfare, with less than 1,000 civilians killed as a result of U.S. action:


What is the source for these numbers? The most comprehensive study of civilian casualties is available from a group opposed to the Coalition intervention in Iraq called Iraq Body Count. This summer, the Iraq Body Count project published an analysis of casualties in the Iraq War that must be admired for its meticulous documentation.

This study reports 24,865 civilian deaths in the first two years of the Iraq War, an apparent ringing endorsement of the "Iraq in chaos" position. But a curious statistical anomaly jumps right off page one: over 81% of the civilian casualties are men. Even stranger, over 90% of civilian casualties are adults in a country with a disproportionate percentage of the population under 18 (44.5%). This contradicts a basic tenet of the civilian casualty argument, namely that we are describing collateral damage during a time of war. Collateral damage does not differentiate between male and female, between child and adult. A defective smart bomb falling in a marketplace, stray bullets ripping through bedroom walls, city warfare in Fallujah – all these activities should produce casualties that reflect the ratio of men to women or adults to children that prevail in Iraq as a whole.

This question is particularly relevant when one side in the conflict does not wear uniforms, is predominantly adult and of one gender, and engages in a practice of concealing its combatants within the civilian population. The statistics are further distorted if the Iraqi security forces – essentially the free Iraqi military on the side of the U.S. coalition – are classified as civilians, as they are in this study.


Consider the reported vs. expected gender and age distribution in the Iraq Body Count analysis:



Note: Statistical analysis of confirmed demographic data is projected over the total reported civilians killed. National gender and age data comes from here, here, here and here.

If the death of innocent civilians is at issue, then the gender/age data can be used to estimate the percentage of actual civilians killed. Below, the data for female and underage casualties provides the basis for determining a true, pure civilian "body count" figure of 7,976.



Before any additional analysis, it must be noted that this figure is breathtaking in its limited scope; a nation of 26 million people enduring two years of warfare, much of it urban, has a civilian survival rate of 99.97%. Consider that in one day, September 11, 2001, the United States incurred almost 40% of this number. Also consider that, in the United States of America, you have the exact same risk of dying if you drive a car (survival rate = [1 - two-year car fatality totals/population] or [1 - ((42,815+42,643)/291,000,000)] = 99.97%).

There is further risk of distortion in the Iraq Body Count report related to the timing of casualties. Casualties that arise from the initial invasion of Iraq, for example when the 3rd Army swept into Baghdad in April of 2003, are an expected and tragic consequence of major military action, which had near universal American support at the time. The subsequent focus on civilian casualty counts over the ensuing months is an exercise of a different nature, one designed to portray a ruthless or disorganized army of occupation that is inflicting devastating collateral damage on the civilian population in its hunt for terrorists and non-uniformed combatants. Nothing could be further from the truth, as the fatality distribution over time reveals:



The only way to describe the actions of the U.S. Military in its role of "occupier" is a compassionate and careful army that avoids collateral damage despite its dangerous mandate to hunt for terrorists and non-uniformed combatants hidden within the civilian population. It is nothing short of miraculous that our Armed Forces have been able to eliminate as many terrorists and enemy combatants as they have with so little actual collateral damage. Many seasoned military men, in fact, bemoan the increased danger such modern warfare represents. A cogent argument can be made that mixing warfare and compassion is not wise, but under no circumstances can American warriors be faulted for lacking compassion.

The low level of actual casualties, developed and explained in the Appendix below, is stunning. Over the course of the Iraq invasion and "occupation," only 14.8% of reported fatalities represent actual civilian fatalities caused by U.S. action. Even more remarkable, since the fall of Baghdad the U.S. has been directly responsible for only 3.8% of fatalities reported, as many deaths over almost two years as Saddam averaged in 10 days.


Note: The calculations in this chart are described in the Appendix below.

For those who claim the United States is indirectly responsible for the several hundred deaths a month caused by insurgents and criminals, they would do well to note two facts: 1) just over 32% of the fatalities in the chronological table represent civilians, and 2) that this figure is a 93% decline from the monthly average piled up by Saddam Hussein over 24 years (see Fuzzy Moral Math).

Appendix
The effective civilian casualties are calculated as follows:
a Variable - The two top BLUE lines are the results of the gender/age normalization of the casualty data. Using documented gender/age demographic data, the reported female deaths and the reported underage deaths were used to project the actual adult male non-combatants embedded in the total casualty number.
b Variable - The two dark RED lines are carried over the report's disclosure of parties responsible for fatalities.
x Variable - The first GREEN calculation (a * b) represents the percentage of total reported fatalities that are civilian and for which the U.S. is directly responsible.
c Variable - The two PURPLE lines reflect the timing distribution of fatalities looking at two periods: the initial invasion, identified as March 20 through April 30, 2003, and the "occupation," identified as May 2003 through the end of the report time frame in March of 2005.
y Variable – The second GREEN calculation (x * c) reveals the percentage of total reported fatalities that are civilian and for which the U.S. is directly responsible during the so-called "occupation" period in the report (May 2003 – March 2005).
d Variable – The two BLACK lines detail the breakdown in fatality responsibility between U.S. and non-U.S. forces during the "occupation."
z Variable - The third GREEN calculation (d * a) reveals a percentage of total reported fatalities that are civilian and for which the U.S. is directly responsible for any time in the future. The previous "y" calculation is distorted by inclusion of invasion period numbers. The "z" calculation simply projects post-invasion fatalities tendencies into the future.
Copyright © 2005 Dan Hallagan. All Rights Reserved.
 
I see my Lady is still playing games with statistics.

The cost of security operations in Iraq indicates to me it is more risky to live there then driving my car. Even building schools for the locals you have to protect the Iraqi subcontrators with gunmen because the insane insurgents tend to attack them. (I just read an article about Afghanistan that has the same problem)


about civilian casualties: It is inevitable but its clearly documented the ROE
by the US are set to minimalize them but accidents happen.

The peace activists buying into the US chemical weapon use and slaughter
of civilians are just gullible and used by the enemy. The enemy about 30% of the Muslim if you believe there polls (ok time to hit me back T.)

Well I dont know how many Muslims really hate the West to an extent
they want to fight and destroy it but public support and the sales
of Bin Laden memorabilia indicates it is a significant amount.
 
nosarcasm said:
I see my Lady is still playing games with statistics.

The cost of security operations in Iraq indicates to me it is more risky to live there then driving my car. Even building schools for the locals you have to protect the Iraqi subcontrators with gunmen because the insane insurgents tend to attack them. (I just read an article about Afghanistan that has the same problem)


about civilian casualties: It is inevitable but its clearly documented the ROE
by the US are set to minimalize them but accidents happen.

The peace activists buying into the US chemical weapon use and slaughter
of civilians are just gullible and used by the enemy. The enemy about 30% of the Muslim if you believe there polls (ok time to hit me back T.)

Well I dont know how many Muslims really hate the West to an extent
they want to fight and destroy it but public support and the sales
of Bin Laden memorabilia indicates it is a significant amount.

I'll give you that there are some suppositions here, but I'll also ask you to read it through and see if it doesn't make much more sense than Lancet 'study' or any of the other drivel being thrown left and right.
 
I agree, this study seems solid. I am sure you have also over time
seen the numerous reports of false reporting by Iraqis that have
been disproved by coroners. Counting casualties is a tricky game.

While I can believe the numbers of around 20k to 30k of civilian casualties
I think the conclusions about safety are not helpful. Apple/orange thing.


I am just messing with you because you brought up your disbelieve
statistic. :funnyface

But its also dangerous from political "feelings" to judge the validity of stats.
 
nosarcasm said:
I agree, this study seems solid. I am sure you have also over time
seen the numerous reports of false reporting by Iraqis that have
been disproved by coroners. Counting casualties is a tricky game.

While I can believe the numbers of around 20k to 30k of civilian casualties
I think the conclusions about safety are not helpful. Apple/orange thing.


I am just messing with you because you brought up your disbelieve
statistic. :funnyface

But its also dangerous from political "feelings" to judge the validity of stats.

Are you just kidding with another poster here? As a strong military supporter and participant, I would be overwhelmingly appalled that YOU as an uninterested non-combatant might have been killed as a result of any action by me or any representative of me.

We've killed innocents in every war. With each news release about "surgical" weaponry and "surgical" military strike we become immune to the fact that people that have no interest in and nothing to do with the present "WAR" at hand are being killed for no reason other than they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. With our advertised "surgical technology" there is no excuse for this type nonchalance when it comes to purely noncombatants and completely innocents being slaughtered at the hands of an aggressive military force.

Even the oft adverised (it's nothing more than advertisement) insurgents with all their primitive weaponry tend to target their perceived enemies with much less "collateral" damage, if you will. Even "1" collateral death is too many for me.

WAR is not something to be cavalier about.

Psychoblues
 
it is the grim reality of war. Innocent people die, thats why the political
leadership has to think hard before using military force.

the rules of engagement set by the US forces are setup to minimize
civilian casualties. This aint Dresden or Warshaw anymore.
In comparison to other armies current campaigns civilian casualties
in relationship to killed enemies are very low.

Whats up with the strong military supporter linw ? If you would prefer
the military you would ignore civilan casualties and maximize the survival
rate of your troops. So dont give me that crap.

Thanks to modern communication "we" are well informed about human suffering that comes with warfare.

to purely noncombatants and completely innocents being slaughtered at the hands of an aggressive military force.

thats the enemies propaganda. There is no reason for the US military to
slaugter civilans just for the heck of it, nor does the military or cilvilan leader advocate such behavior. Not to mention international treaties that
the US decided to subscrive to that ban this kind of behavior.



Even the oft adverised (it's nothing more than advertisement) insurgents with all their primitive weaponry tend to target their perceived enemies with much less "collateral" damage, if you will.

umm the insurgents target innocent civilians to begin with in the majority of their operations these days. Who would be the collateral damage? Aliens ?

You are sure a crazy.
 
nosarcasm said:
it is the grim reality of war. Innocent people die, thats why the political
leadership has to think hard before using military force.

the rules of engagement set by the US forces are setup to minimize
civilian casualties. This aint Dresden or Warshaw anymore.
In comparison to other armies current campaigns civilian casualties
in relationship to killed enemies are very low.

Whats up with the strong military supporter linw ? If you would prefer
the military you would ignore civilan casualties and maximize the survival
rate of your troops. So dont give me that crap.

Thanks to modern communication "we" are well informed about human suffering that comes with warfare.



thats the enemies propaganda. There is no reason for the US military to
slaugter civilans just for the heck of it, nor does the military or cilvilan leader advocate such behavior. Not to mention international treaties that
the US decided to subscrive to that ban this kind of behavior.





umm the insurgents target innocent civilians to begin with in the majority of their operations these days. Who would be the collateral damage? Aliens ?

You are sure a crazy.

Did I say these "insurgents" are targeting innocent civilians? Or did you? What good could they possibly hope to achieve from this tactic? I think I said quite the opposite. Check your Understand A Meter.

Psychoblues
 
nosarcasm said:
non sequitur

That's a quote I hope you never forget. A rationalization for your own death by inadvertant military force might be considered by you as "non sequitur." That's a byline the nation might agree with, don't you think? You being sarcastic or what?

Psychoblues
 
Psychoblues said:
That's a quote I hope you never forget. A rationalization for your own death by inadvertant military force might be considered by you as "non sequitur." That's a byline the nation might agree with, don't you think? You being sarcastic or what?

Psychoblues

Psycho, i swear you smoked yourself stupid back in 'nam. You came back a communist toting moron as evidenced by all your posts here.

Your honestly defending the actions of the "insurgents" (a term i use loosely since to be an insurgent you actually have to be from the country that was occupied). They sure are not trying to harm a military operation when they bomb voting places. They're not trying to disrupt American troops when they attack busy marketplaces. Sure they attack American troops also but in those attacks they end up killing more innocents then troops. How then can you justify the "insurgent's" (again used very loosely) actions when you claim to be the big humanitarian against civilian casualties?

Your nothing more then an ancient relic from the 60's. Peace at all costs but supporting the enemy is the best path that you can subscribe too instead of, oh i dont know, ACTUALLY SUPPORTING THE TROOPS OF YOUR OWN FUCKING COUNTRY YOU GOD DAMN TRAITOR.
 
Man, you gotta get a hold of yourself. I am not a communist as you presuppose. I do not and never have been a toker. But, I might be a moron. What does all that make you other than a liar, prejudiced to the inth and a moron as well? If you ain't listening, you ain't digging.

I don't defend terrorists whether they wear the uniform of the United States of America, the sovereign nations we occupy or the shawls of cowards that choose not to wear a uniform at all.

I thinketh you might be the very sick puppy on this issue.

Psychoblues


insein said:
Psycho, i swear you smoked yourself stupid back in 'nam. You came back a communist toting moron as evidenced by all your posts here.

Your honestly defending the actions of the "insurgents" (a term i use loosely since to be an insurgent you actually have to be from the country that was occupied). They sure are not trying to harm a military operation when they bomb voting places. They're not trying to disrupt American troops when they attack busy marketplaces. Sure they attack American troops also but in those attacks they end up killing more innocents then troops. How then can you justify the "insurgent's" (again used very loosely) actions when you claim to be the big humanitarian against civilian casualties?

Your nothing more then an ancient relic from the 60's. Peace at all costs but supporting the enemy is the best path that you can subscribe too instead of, oh i dont know, ACTUALLY SUPPORTING THE TROOPS OF YOUR OWN FUCKING COUNTRY YOU GOD DAMN TRAITOR.
 
Psychoblues said:
Did I say these "insurgents" are targeting innocent civilians? Or did you? What good could they possibly hope to achieve from this tactic? I think I said quite the opposite. Check your Understand A Meter.

Psychoblues


Are you serious??? :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

Im not even gonna waste my time providing proof, but no one except the truly delusional has any doubt a major amount of terrorist (insurgents) bombings have targeted civilians.

What ward did you say you are in????
 

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