on america's history with uncle joe

[blu]

Yalta: The Great Betrayal by Eric Margolis

pretty good writeup

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"NKVD and military intelligence, GRU, knew almost everything on the minds of the Americans and British. There were two Soviet agents in Roosevelt’s entourage: Asst. Treasury Secretary Harry Dexter White and Alger Hiss. Sudoplatov says he heard from GRU there was a third highly placed Soviet agent in the White House, and another who was a famous financier and scion of one of America’s most famous families."

FDR was Stalin's little sock puppet

 

[Ringel05]

Stalin's desire at the end of WWII was not pure expansion. Initially all he wanted pro-soviet buffer states between himself and the west and in this he succeed, especially due to Roosevelt's naivety and Truman's lack of knowledge concerning our dealings and promises made to Stalin by Roosevelt. (Truman was not included in the negotiations). Churchill was horrified by what Roosevelt was doing but was actually not in a powerful enough position to effectively counter so was forced to accept the inevitable.

 

[rightwinger]

Considering that Russia had just lost over 10% of their population, it is understandable how paranoid they would be. Russia wanted to ensure they would never be invaded again. I doubt if they would have wavered on that point. Russia also felt that they bore the bulk of the burden against the Nazis and deserved most of the spoils.
FDR could have fought it, but it would have involved removing Russia from already occupied territory

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Considering that Russia had just lost over 10% of their population, it is understandable how paranoid they would be. Russia wanted to ensure they would never be invaded again. I doubt if they would have wavered on that point. Russia also felt that they bore the bulk of the burden against the Nazis and deserved most of the spoils.
FDR could have fought it, but it would have involved removing Russia from already occupied territory

Bullshit.

Patton for one wanted to beat the Soviets to Prague and Berlin and the Germans would have gladly helped him in that effort. But Ike was under orders from Stalin's favorite sock puppet, FDR, as to disposition of Europe; that is, Uncle Joe get a lot of the prime real estate. FDR was advised by Communist spies. Joe McCarthy told the embarrassing truth that USState was overrun with Communist spies. History bears out McCarthy.

In his journals and letter Patton calls WWII a huge strategic failure for the USA because it left "major European capitals in the hands of the descendants of Genghis Khan"

50 years later, thanks to Ronald Reagan, Eastern Europe broke the yoke of Communist oppression.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yalta: The Great Betrayal by Eric Margolis

pretty good writeup

Great post...glad you found the essay.

Especially agree with the former, perhaps not the latter of this:
"The left-leaning, likely senile Roosevelt kept hailing Stalin, who had murdered over 20 million people, "our Uncle Joe."


Rep on the way.

 

[rightwinger]

Considering that Russia had just lost over 10% of their population, it is understandable how paranoid they would be. Russia wanted to ensure they would never be invaded again. I doubt if they would have wavered on that point. Russia also felt that they bore the bulk of the burden against the Nazis and deserved most of the spoils.
FDR could have fought it, but it would have involved removing Russia from already occupied territory

Bullshit.

Patton for one wanted to beat the Soviets to Prague and Berlin and the Germans would have gladly helped him in that effort. But Ike was under orders from Stalin's favorite sock puppet, FDR, as to disposition of Europe; that is, Uncle Joe get a lot of the prime real estate. FDR was advised by Communist spies. Joe McCarthy told the embarrassing truth that USState was overrun with Communist spies. History bears out McCarthy.

In his journals and letter Patton calls WWII a huge strategic failure for the USA because it left "major European capitals in the hands of the descendants of Genghis Khan"

50 years later, thanks to Ronald Reagan, Eastern Europe broke the yoke of Communist oppression.

Patton was an ass when it came to evaluating the political realities of a situation. The Russians had killed 7 million Germans during the war. How many million casualties would the American public have tolerated ?

 

[Gadawg73]

Considering that Russia had just lost over 10% of their population, it is understandable how paranoid they would be. Russia wanted to ensure they would never be invaded again. I doubt if they would have wavered on that point. Russia also felt that they bore the bulk of the burden against the Nazis and deserved most of the spoils.
FDR could have fought it, but it would have involved removing Russia from already occupied territory

Bullshit.

Patton for one wanted to beat the Soviets to Prague and Berlin and the Germans would have gladly helped him in that effort. But Ike was under orders from Stalin's favorite sock puppet, FDR, as to disposition of Europe; that is, Uncle Joe get a lot of the prime real estate. FDR was advised by Communist spies. Joe McCarthy told the embarrassing truth that USState was overrun with Communist spies. History bears out McCarthy.

In his journals and letter Patton calls WWII a huge strategic failure for the USA because it left "major European capitals in the hands of the descendants of Genghis Khan"

50 years later, thanks to Ronald Reagan, Eastern Europe broke the yoke of Communist oppression.

Patton was a great military leader. However, his combat losses at times were for meaningless territory at great loss. His ego put soldiers in the grave for no militaty reason at all many times.
McCarthy used the shotgun effect. Accuse EVERYONE and see what sticks. Roy Cohn was his assistant and accomplice at that along with Bobby Kennedy at times.
McCarthy could have cared less about the American doctrine of innocent until proven guilty. For every spy he may have revealed 1000 innocent people had their lives ruined.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yalta: The Great Betrayal by Eric Margolis

pretty good writeup

An even better picture of FDR:

1. “On September 2, 1939, the day after the outbreak of war in Europe, Whittaker Chambers had told much of what he knew about Soviet espionage in the United States to Adolph Berle, Assistant Secretary of State and President’s Roosevelt’s advisor on internal security. Immediately afterwards, Berle drew up a memorandum for the President which listed Alger Hiss, Harry Dexter White and the other leading for whom Chambers acted as courier. One was a leading presidential aide, Lauchlin Currie….Roosevelt, however, was not interested. He seems to have dismissed the whole idea of espionage rings within his administration as absurd.” ‘The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archives, the History of the KGB,” by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin.p.107

2. “Whereas [Soviet intellience] had penetrated every major branch of Roosevelt’s administration, OSS…had not a single agent in Moscow. (Roosevelt arrived at the Tehran Conference in November 1943 determined to reach agreement with Stalin, even at the risk of offending Churchill.) He declined Churchill’s proposal that they meet privately, but accepted Stalin’s invitation that he should stay at …the Soviet embassy….It seems not to have occurred to Roosevelt that the building was, inevitably, bugged.” Ibid, p.111.

3. “Roosevelt was bringing to Tehran his closest wartime adviser, Harry Hopkins, …(who) had established a remarkable reputation…for taking the Russians into his confidence. Earlier in the year he had privately warned the Soviet embassy in Washington that the FBI had bugged a secret meeting…” Ibid. [Hopkins was not a Soviet spy or agent, but just one who was impressed with the Soviet war effort.]


Was Stalin simply interested in the Soviet Union, or did he have bigger plans?
Hiss was his agent...

“In 1945, while serving as a member of the American delegation to the Yalta Conference, Hiss was named Director of the Office of Special Political Affairs. Later that year, he was Secretary General of the San Francisco Conference that organized the United Nations. After the conference - as the highlight of his government career - Hiss was asked to fly the new U.N. charter back to Washington in a special plane for President Truman's signature. "That was the day," Hiss said later, "when I realized exactly how important I really was - the charter had a parachute and I didn't."
The Alger Hiss Story

 

[PoliticalChic]

Considering that Russia had just lost over 10% of their population, it is understandable how paranoid they would be. Russia wanted to ensure they would never be invaded again. I doubt if they would have wavered on that point. Russia also felt that they bore the bulk of the burden against the Nazis and deserved most of the spoils.
FDR could have fought it, but it would have involved removing Russia from already occupied territory

Bullshit.

Patton for one wanted to beat the Soviets to Prague and Berlin and the Germans would have gladly helped him in that effort. But Ike was under orders from Stalin's favorite sock puppet, FDR, as to disposition of Europe; that is, Uncle Joe get a lot of the prime real estate. FDR was advised by Communist spies. Joe McCarthy told the embarrassing truth that USState was overrun with Communist spies. History bears out McCarthy.

In his journals and letter Patton calls WWII a huge strategic failure for the USA because it left "major European capitals in the hands of the descendants of Genghis Khan"

50 years later, thanks to Ronald Reagan, Eastern Europe broke the yoke of Communist oppression.

Patton was a great military leader. However, his combat losses at times were for meaningless territory at great loss. His ego put soldiers in the grave for no militaty reason at all many times.
McCarthy used the shotgun effect. Accuse EVERYONE and see what sticks. Roy Cohn was his assistant and accomplice at that along with Bobby Kennedy at times.
McCarthy could have cared less about the American doctrine of innocent until proven guilty. For every spy he may have revealed 1000 innocent people had their lives ruined.

Total left-wing pap.


1. McCarthy’s primary goal was not to expose individual Communists, he was simply demanding of the liberal establishment: Why were they sheltering traitors? It was the exact same point Eisenhower was making when he directed Attorney General Brownell to inform the public that President Truman had wittingly place a Soviet spy in a key position at the IMF… For decades, people who should not have been allowed anywhere a government job were strolling into sensitive positions with the US government. For the most part, accusations were not aimed at sending the accused to a gulag, only to private practice.

2. “A host of other right-wing Republicans had sought to dramatize the communism issue, but only McCarthy succeeded. And McCarthy succeeded while the others did not in part because of his thoroughgoing contempt for the rules of political controversy.”
Michael Paul Rogin, The Intellectuals and McCarthy: The Radical Specter, p. 251

He forced liberals to explain themselves in full view of the American people. So they made McCarthy the issue.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Stalin's desire at the end of WWII was not pure expansion. Initially all he wanted pro-soviet buffer states between himself and the west and in this he succeed, especially due to Roosevelt's nativity and Truman's lack of knowledge concerning our dealings and promises made to Stalin by Roosevelt. (Truman was not included in the negotiations). Churchill was horrified by what Roosevelt was doing but was actually not in a powerful enough position to effectively counter so was forced to accept the inevitable.

"Initially all he wanted pro-soviet buffer states between himself and the west ..."

I'll assume that the word 'initially' means that you realize that the aim of communist imperialism was total world conquest.

 

[editec]

Yeah well it didn't work out all that well for the Soviets, did it?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yeah well it didn't work out all that well for the Soviets, did it?

I'm not getting your point: is the sympathy for the commissars or the victims?


From “The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression,” which is a compilation of research edited by French scholar Stephane Courtois, totals over 100 million victims of Communist murder during the 20th Century.

“[The] relationship [between communism and Nazism] may never be fully understood. But the Russian Red Terror, in its emphasis on the elimination of entire classes of peoples, in its description of opponents as "vermin" to be exterminated, does seem like a precursor of the German concentration camps. Moreover, Nazism profited greatly not only from Lenin's and Stalin's Gulag system--Rudolf Hoess, commandant of Auschwitz, solicited reports about the operations of Soviet camps--but also from Bolshevism itself, which served as both a whipping boy and, at times, a political idea that could be collaborated with. The two ideologies validated each other.
After World War II, the prestige of the Soviet Union was at its height. The country had fought on the side of the democracies, U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow. In Europe, communists made a comeback in France, Italy and Germany with the flowering of the myth that communists were merely heroic anti-fascist freedom fighters. Thus the gruesome Soviet record was suppressed.

 

[Ringel05]

Considering that Russia had just lost over 10% of their population, it is understandable how paranoid they would be. Russia wanted to ensure they would never be invaded again. I doubt if they would have wavered on that point. Russia also felt that they bore the bulk of the burden against the Nazis and deserved most of the spoils.
FDR could have fought it, but it would have involved removing Russia from already occupied territory

Bullshit.

Patton for one wanted to beat the Soviets to Prague and Berlin and the Germans would have gladly helped him in that effort. But Ike was under orders from Stalin's favorite sock puppet, FDR, as to disposition of Europe; that is, Uncle Joe get a lot of the prime real estate. FDR was advised by Communist spies. Joe McCarthy told the embarrassing truth that USState was overrun with Communist spies. History bears out McCarthy.

In his journals and letter Patton calls WWII a huge strategic failure for the USA because it left "major European capitals in the hands of the descendants of Genghis Khan"

50 years later, thanks to Ronald Reagan, Eastern Europe broke the yoke of Communist oppression.

As much as I disagree with Rightwinger on most subjects in this instance he is 100% correct. Stalin and the Russians were paranoid, distrusting the west. They wanted those buffer states and they wanted them under their control. After WWII the soviets allowed themselves to be hemmed in and it was only later they started exporting communism (and armaments) mainly to develop trading partners but also to discomfort the west and in some instances cause open conflict. Of course we did the same.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Considering that Russia had just lost over 10% of their population, it is understandable how paranoid they would be. Russia wanted to ensure they would never be invaded again. I doubt if they would have wavered on that point. Russia also felt that they bore the bulk of the burden against the Nazis and deserved most of the spoils.
FDR could have fought it, but it would have involved removing Russia from already occupied territory

Bullshit.

Patton for one wanted to beat the Soviets to Prague and Berlin and the Germans would have gladly helped him in that effort. But Ike was under orders from Stalin's favorite sock puppet, FDR, as to disposition of Europe; that is, Uncle Joe get a lot of the prime real estate. FDR was advised by Communist spies. Joe McCarthy told the embarrassing truth that USState was overrun with Communist spies. History bears out McCarthy.

In his journals and letter Patton calls WWII a huge strategic failure for the USA because it left "major European capitals in the hands of the descendants of Genghis Khan"

50 years later, thanks to Ronald Reagan, Eastern Europe broke the yoke of Communist oppression.

As much as I disagree with Rightwinger on most subjects in this instance he is 100% correct. Stalin and the Russians were paranoid, distrusting the west. They wanted those buffer states and they wanted them under their control. After WWII the soviets allowed themselves to be hemmed in and it was only later they started exporting communism (and armaments) mainly to develop trading partners but also to discomfort the west and in some instances cause open conflict. Of course we did the same.

Total baloney.

That is quite a buffer zone when one includes say, Cuba and Syria and Egypt.

They must have been paranoid about the dangers posed by Mars.

 

[konradv]

50 years later, thanks to Ronald Reagan, Eastern Europe broke the yoke of Communist oppression.

LOL!!! He did all himself, did he? What about Carter's backing the Afghanis and embroiling the SU in its own Viet Nam? There are instances like that throughout the history of the Cold War. Reagan merely came along when the SU was already on its last legs. It was brought down by its own citizens and the citizens of the other Iron Curtain countries.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Considering that Russia had just lost over 10% of their population, it is understandable how paranoid they would be. Russia wanted to ensure they would never be invaded again. I doubt if they would have wavered on that point. Russia also felt that they bore the bulk of the burden against the Nazis and deserved most of the spoils.
FDR could have fought it, but it would have involved removing Russia from already occupied territory

Bullshit.

Patton for one wanted to beat the Soviets to Prague and Berlin and the Germans would have gladly helped him in that effort. But Ike was under orders from Stalin's favorite sock puppet, FDR, as to disposition of Europe; that is, Uncle Joe get a lot of the prime real estate. FDR was advised by Communist spies. Joe McCarthy told the embarrassing truth that USState was overrun with Communist spies. History bears out McCarthy.

In his journals and letter Patton calls WWII a huge strategic failure for the USA because it left "major European capitals in the hands of the descendants of Genghis Khan"

50 years later, thanks to Ronald Reagan, Eastern Europe broke the yoke of Communist oppression.

Patton was an ass when it came to evaluating the political realities of a situation. The Russians had killed 7 million Germans during the war. How many million casualties would the American public have tolerated ?

Patton knew Ike and FDR agreed to sell out Eastern Europe

Patton predicted Ike was going to run for the US Presidency.

Patton knew handing Eastern Europe to Uncle Joe was one of the worst ideas in human history and made the US War effort a strategic failure

 

[rightwinger]

Bullshit.

Patton for one wanted to beat the Soviets to Prague and Berlin and the Germans would have gladly helped him in that effort. But Ike was under orders from Stalin's favorite sock puppet, FDR, as to disposition of Europe; that is, Uncle Joe get a lot of the prime real estate. FDR was advised by Communist spies. Joe McCarthy told the embarrassing truth that USState was overrun with Communist spies. History bears out McCarthy.

In his journals and letter Patton calls WWII a huge strategic failure for the USA because it left "major European capitals in the hands of the descendants of Genghis Khan"

50 years later, thanks to Ronald Reagan, Eastern Europe broke the yoke of Communist oppression.

Patton was an ass when it came to evaluating the political realities of a situation. The Russians had killed 7 million Germans during the war. How many million casualties would the American public have tolerated ?

Patton knew Ike and FDR agreed to sell out Eastern Europe

Patton predicted Ike was going to run for the US Presidency.

Patton knew handing Eastern Europe to Uncle Joe was one of the worst ideas in human history and made the US War effort a strategic failure

Patton was a buffoon when it came to recognizing the political realities of a situation. He was sequestered in a military mindset where the solution to every problem was to attack without regards to consequences.
Ike was afraid to let Patton speak because he was so simplistic in his evaluations of how to deal with US allies and the global situation.
History has shown that Ike was right and Patton was a childish self-centered ass

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Considering that Russia had just lost over 10% of their population, it is understandable how paranoid they would be. Russia wanted to ensure they would never be invaded again. I doubt if they would have wavered on that point. Russia also felt that they bore the bulk of the burden against the Nazis and deserved most of the spoils.
FDR could have fought it, but it would have involved removing Russia from already occupied territory

Bullshit.

Patton for one wanted to beat the Soviets to Prague and Berlin and the Germans would have gladly helped him in that effort. But Ike was under orders from Stalin's favorite sock puppet, FDR, as to disposition of Europe; that is, Uncle Joe get a lot of the prime real estate. FDR was advised by Communist spies. Joe McCarthy told the embarrassing truth that USState was overrun with Communist spies. History bears out McCarthy.

In his journals and letter Patton calls WWII a huge strategic failure for the USA because it left "major European capitals in the hands of the descendants of Genghis Khan"

50 years later, thanks to Ronald Reagan, Eastern Europe broke the yoke of Communist oppression.

Patton was a great military leader. However, his combat losses at times were for meaningless territory at great loss. His ego put soldiers in the grave for no militaty reason at all many times.
McCarthy used the shotgun effect. Accuse EVERYONE and see what sticks. Roy Cohn was his assistant and accomplice at that along with Bobby Kennedy at times.
McCarthy could have cared less about the American doctrine of innocent until proven guilty. For every spy he may have revealed 1000 innocent people had their lives ruined.

Congratulation.

You didn't get a single fucking thing right.

Had roles been reversed between Patton and Bradley: that is, had Bradley had command of Third Army and reported to Patton, the war in Europe would have ended at least a month sooner. First, Bradley actually stopped Patton from choking off the trapped German in the Falaise Pocket after Normandy and let them escape.

Second, instead of getting your information from a movie on Patton from Bradley POV, try reading a book or two on Patton.

Had Patton directed overall Allied strategy and operations, the US and British would be firmly in charge of Prague, Berlin and Vienna by no later than March 1945.

Since the Soviets weren't telling McCarthy who the spies were, I think he was correct to take it seriously and history has shown both how accurate he was and how acute the problem.

 

[PoliticalChic]

50 years later, thanks to Ronald Reagan, Eastern Europe broke the yoke of Communist oppression.

LOL!!! He did all himself, did he? What about Carter's backing the Afghanis and embroiling the SU in its own Viet Nam? There are instances like that throughout the history of the Cold War. Reagan merely came along when the SU was already on its last legs. It was brought down by its own citizens and the citizens of the other Iron Curtain countries.

1. “Ronald Reagan won the Cold War without firing a shot.” These words of Margaret Thatcher could be applied to her as well. She matched Reagan’s military buildup with a strengthening of Britain’s defense forces. She was the strongest voice in Western Europe protesting against Soviet-ordered martial law against Solidarity in Poland. Thatcher took office in May, 1979, and Reagan in January, 1981, and they vanquished communism in less than a decade.

2. She prevented the European Union from accepting the legitimacy of Soviet incorporation of the Baltic countries inside its multi-national Gulag. She rallied the Europeans to ensure the installation of US missiles in Western Europe in 1984 to match the Soviet planting of SS-20s in the Soviet satellites. This was a decisive defeat for the Soviet Union in the Cold War, as they lost the hope of being able to employ nuclear blackmail against NATO, and of splitting the Atlantic alliance. The collapse of communism occurred only a few years later.

3. Thatcher, in fact, may well be regarded by history as more important than Reagan, in respect to economic reform. This is because recovery of the British economy in the 1980’s started at a lower point, and occurred in a more left-wing country: while Jimmy Carter was fairly effective at ruining an economy, but was no match for 50 years of socialism and Labour government. Thatcher successfully battled not only Labour MP’s, and timid Tories, but labor unions, as in the ’84-’85 miners’ strike. These domestic victories weakened the extreme left everywhere.

a. The world economy benefitted form Thatcherism and Reaganism, in that they had provided the world with successful models of free and deregulated economies.

b. In the Politburo archives can be found this unwitting tribute to Lady Thatcher in a 1986 conversation between Gorbachev and Alexander Natta, the General Secretary of the Italian Communist party:
Natta: At the same time we, the communists, having either overestimated or underestimated the functions of the “welfare state,” kept defending situations which, as it became clear only now, we should not have defended. As a result, a bureaucratic apparatus, which serves itself, has swelled. It is interesting that a certain similarity with your situation, which you call stagnation, can be seen here.
Gorbachev: “Parkinson’s law” works everywhere. . . .
Natta: Any bureaucratization encourages the apparatus to protect its own interests and to forget about the citizens’ interests. I suppose that is exactly why the Right’s demands of re-privatisation are falling on a fertile ground in Western public opinion.

c. Once the command economies of the Soviet Bloc collapsed in 1989, revealing the extraordinary bankruptcy of state planning, it was the Thatcher model that the new democracies mainly sought to emulate.

4. Lady Thatcher believed in the Anglo-American political tradition of ordered liberty, and her time in government brought forth the dormant incipient virtues —dispersed authority, open debate, popular sovereignty, spontaneous social evolution— in many new democracies, such as Estonia. They offer the best hope for Third World countries emerging from poverty and backwardness into a world of globalized opportunities.
a. European political structure is built upon a very different tradition of constructivist rationalism; the future is endangered by the failure of many conservatives to see the dangers in a European and global governance, popular with the US administration, that lacks democratic accountability and threatens liberal freedoms.
https://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=2008&month=06