Ohhh...Get over it.

[Gunny]

The grassroots GOP is right on the issue. It's the damn idiots in Congress and the White House who want to promote amnesty. If you do a quick search, Dr. Grump, you'll see that I've come down against the idiotic Bush plan for amnesty, and that I (like others on this board) am for real immigration reform.

So, now that you know where the GOP grassroots stands, where do the Dems stand on illegal immigration and amnesty?

No kidding. I'm not for rewarding criminals for their crimes. Nor am I for new legislation/reform that in any way identifies people in this coutry illegally as anything but criminals.

Enforce the laws we have. SImple as that.

But our government allows how many illegals to congregate on the National Mall and protest US?

And as I stated earlier, the Dems have had ample opportunity to do something if they wanted to, so this hypocrtical, pot calling the kettle black crap ain't making it with me.

 

[007]

The grassroots GOP is right on the issue. It's the damn idiots in Congress and the White House who want to promote amnesty. If you do a quick search, Dr. Grump, you'll see that I've come down against the idiotic Bush plan for amnesty, and that I (like others on this board) am for real immigration reform.

So, now that you know where the GOP grassroots stands, where do the Dems stand on illegal immigration and amnesty?

You nailed it Jeff. I agree 100%

And I can hear the crickets chirping, instead of something of substance from our liberal jokers in this thread.

 

[MissileMan]

I disagree completely. The dems have tried their best to whore themselves out to the illegals for their vote. Oh wait... there wasn't any dems speaking at any of the marches... hmmm... maybe the whore is a two faced liar.

An interesting argument. Have any stats on how many of the illegals are actually registered voters?

Something WILL be done. Because the marches will get more violent if there isn't. And what's going to be done isn't going to be what the illegals want anyway though. There may be violence anyway, because there WILL NOT BE ANY AMNESTY. They should just get that through their head. No illegal will EVER VOTE in America either. That's why the dems didn't show their faces at any of the marches. The dems are throwing the illegals away like a used condom realizing they'll never get their vote.

So the dems are chasing the illegal vote which doesn't nor will it ever exist. You want a do-over?

ALL politicians whore themselves out to special interest groups. It's not a practice limited to democrats.

 

[007]

An interesting argument. Have any stats on how many of the illegals are actually registered voters?

None of them. But that's not to say the dems wouldn't like to see them as registered voters. If the dems gave them the right to vote, they'd expect them to vote for them.

So the dems are chasing the illegal vote which doesn't nor will it ever exist. You want a do-over?

No. The dems have already realized that there isn't going to be any amnesty, so they're not going to get any illegal votes either, so they've already forgotten the illegals like yesterdays headlines.

ALL politicians whore themselves out to special interest groups. It's not a practice limited to democrats.

Can't argue with that, otherwise Bush would do his fucking job and start deporting illegals, and secure the border. Bush can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. He's a fucking traitor. And that goes for any other politician that wants to just HAND OVER our country to a bunch of ILLEGAL ALIENS.

 

[jillian]

None of them. But that's not to say the dems wouldn't like to see them as registered voters. If the dems gave them the right to vote, they'd expect them to vote for them.



No. The dems have already realized that there isn't going to be any amnesty, so they're not going to get any illegal votes either, so they've already forgotten the illegals like yesterdays headlines.



Can't argue with that, otherwise Bush would do his fucking job and start deporting illegals, and secure the border. Bush can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. He's a fucking traitor. And that goes for any other politician that wants to just HAND OVER our country to a bunch of ILLEGAL ALIENS.

Actually, for all the moaning that's gone on, it's Bush who raised the issue of "guest workers", not the democrats. The dems just jumped in when it seemed that some in the house were going to do inhuman and inhumane things like refuse medical care to people. If you have a gripe it's with your corporatist president and his cronies who want cheap labor...not with the dems.

 

[dilloduck]

Actually, for all the moaning that's gone on, it's Bush who raised the issue of "guest workers", not the democrats. The dems just jumped in when it seemed that some in the house were going to do inhuman and inhumane things like refuse medical care to people. If you have a gripe it's with your corporatist president and his cronies who want cheap labor...not with the dems.

There's no high road here, Jillian. They're a bunch of politicians going nuts trying to figure out how to use the hispanics (not just the illegals) to their advantage.

 

[Dr Grump]

So, now that you know where the GOP grassroots stands, where do the Dems stand on illegal immigration and amnesty?

As I said to Dillo, you are asking the wrong person. I am not a Dem...It seems to me BOTH parties are trying to get the illegal vote. It would be very interesting to see what would happen if somebody arranged a march on Washington (like the million man march or somesuch) AGAINST illegal immigrants being given a free pass. I reckon it would be HUGE...

 

[007]

There's no high road here, Jillian. They're a bunch of politicians going nuts trying to figure out how to use the hispanics (not just the illegals) to their advantage.

Thank you dillo. Ex-fucking-actly.

 

[manu1959]

The fact of the matter is that the issue of illegal immigrants is a wedge issue being used by the 'Deliverance' wing of the Republican party, which is desperate to hang onto political power.

In the end, nothing of subsatance will be done about the issue because these undocumented workers take jobs American businesses are unwilling to pay American workers to do. And American business doesn't really want anything to happen to this cheap labor pool. After all, with illegals, they don't have to worry about little inconveniences like occupational safety regs, workers comp, wage and hour laws...little thing like that ya know.

why are all the illegals from mexico? why do we not have this issue with canada?

 

[Hobbit]

why are all the illegals from mexico? why do we not have this issue with canada?

Because Canada doesn't have Vicente Fox and his corrupt cronies soaking up all the money from the citizens.

 

[manu1959]

Actually, for all the moaning that's gone on, it's Bush who raised the issue of "guest workers", not the democrats. The dems just jumped in when it seemed that some in the house were going to do inhuman and inhumane things like refuse medical care to people. If you have a gripe it's with your corporatist president and his cronies who want cheap labor...not with the dems.

refresh my memory did no one illegally enter the country from mexico between 92 and 00?

mexican farmworks belong to which union and give money to whom?

has the US ever had a guest work policy?

what other country can you snaek into and be guaranteed health care, a job, free education not pay taxes for the services you are using and suffer no consequences

yes bush wants a policy where by everyone that enters is kept track of and enters the country legally....and those that break that law should be arrested.....shame on him

 

[CrimsonWhite]

The fact of the matter is that the issue of illegal immigrants is a wedge issue being used by the 'Deliverance' wing of the Republican party, which is desperate to hang onto political power.

And I thought the Democrat Party was the enlightened, tolerant party. The hold hands and sing "We Are the World" type of folk. Didn't they could stoop to petty stereotyping. (sarcasm)

 

[Diuretic]

I think the preferred song is "Kumbaya" isn't it?

 

[Mariner]

a sign language interpreter, please, for those of us who are deaf.

My, how times have changed at USMB. The same people who were heroes and obviously right on every issue (back when Republicans had a disciplined majority) are now being called "idiots" and "politicians" by their former supporters here. And it's so much harder to blame "libs" and "Dems" for everything, now that Republicans are fleeing their former party lines in fear for their own hides, and critiquing one another like never before. It's a breath of fresh air finally to have some real debates going on, about oil, the war, health care, immigration, etc.

Too true, though, what several people here have noted, that for both parties re-election can trump thoughtful policy.

Re: immigration, I read an interesting piece by a population expert a few weeks ago, who said that our current need for so many illegal workers is simply demographic--we don't have as many poor young people as we used to, but we will have them again, as another bulge is moving through the ranks. He also pointed out that the apparent "crisis" is in large part due to the fence, which concentrates immigration along a smaller part of the US/Mexican border, and therefore increases the apparent number of immigrants. Furthermore, he said that stricter controls on people's movements has the perverse effect of making it harder for illegals here to get back to Mexico, and increases their numbers here.

Even though I'm generally liberal, I have a lot of sympathy for the argument that people who are here illegally are breaking the law, and don't deserve amnesty.

At the same time, it would cost tens of billions of dollars to deport 11,000,000 people and keep them out. So there has to be some type of muddier solution, involving creating a better legal pathway to get here (after all, we need the workers, or our restaurant, construction, and farm industries shut down), and managing those who are already here.

Of course the Republican party is split on this. Those from border states have a lot of sympathy for immigrants. Several Republican Senators and Representatives had illegal immigrant parents and relatives! (Pete Dominici's mother was arrested right out of his home when he was about 12--she was here illegally from Italy, I believe.) One guy from Florida was an illegal himself! On the other side are law-and-order Republicans.

Maybe this changed time, when the answers aren't so obvious anymore, becuase the Hammer is gone and Bush has no coattails, is a good time for people here to quit the whole ridiculous "Republicans are always right and Democrats are always wrong" polarized thing. It's a world of ideas out there, and both Democrats and Republicans can have good ideas at different times. Dividing everyone into teams is poisonous. If Bush could have brought himself to accept bipartisan counsel on serious issues such as Iraq, oil policy, etc., we could have had much wiser and better gov't in the past few years.

Mariner.