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Holocaust lessons meet Muslim rebuff in France
Thu Jan 20, 2005 03:30 AM ET
By Tom Heneghan, Religion Editor
PARIS (Reuters) - "Filthy Jew!" schoolchildren howl at a classmate. "Jews only want money and power," they tell their teachers. "Death to the Jews" graffiti appear on school walls outside Paris and other French cities.
These are not scenes from the wartime Nazi occupation or a fictional France where the far-right has taken control. Outright anti-Semitism like this is a fact of life these days in the poor suburbs where much of France's Muslim minority lives.
After a slow response when this "new anti-Semitism" flared four years ago, France has made fighting prejudice against Jews into a national priority. Holocaust education in state schools now starts with pupils as young as nine years old.
But even the best plans for teaching about the Nazi massacre of Jews can fall short when confronted with an Islamic identity spreading among a minority of France's five million Muslims.
"It works with those who are ready to listen," said Iannis Roder, a history teacher in the tough northern suburbs of Paris. "But it doesn't work with those who won't listen. They have their minds made up."
Roder is one of several history teachers who sounded an alarm in 2002 about a wave of anti-Semitism among Muslim pupils, much of it a reaction to the uprising by Palestinians against Israeli control of their lands.
Their outspoken book "The Lost Territories of the Republic" opened France's eyes to classrooms where some Muslim pupils openly denounced Jews, praised Hitler and refused to listen to any non-Muslim teacher talking about the history of Islam.
Such tension has prompted Jewish pupils in these areas to switch to private Jewish or even Catholic schools.
"Muslim pupils react less now to what happens in the Middle East," Roder said. "But the situation hasn't really changed. As soon as you talk about Jews in some historical event, there are (anti-Semitic) comments."
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taff said:Dont really understand your point. Are you trying to say the entire French nation are racists because of this article.If the article wasnt edited by you the next line says that only a minority are the problem and in the next paragraph that foreign Jews praise the french in dealing with this.
In the states this week wasnt a familly butchered for being Egyptian christians.Obviously the act of a few mindless idiots and i wouldnt dream of accussing the states of being a racist country over this.I guess i need to put my steel helmet on and wait for incoming abuse about being pro french, however i am not pro french im just not so anti french that i want to read about them on every thread. It does get a bit boring.
taff said:Dont really understand your point. Are you trying to say the entire French nation are racists because of this article.If the article wasnt edited by you the next line says that only a minority are the problem and in the next paragraph that foreign Jews praise the french in dealing with this.
In the states this week wasnt a familly butchered for being Egyptian christians.Obviously the act of a few mindless idiots and i wouldnt dream of accussing the states of being a racist country over this.I guess i need to put my steel helmet on and wait for incoming abuse about being pro french, however i am not pro french im just not so anti french that i want to read about them on every thread. It does get a bit boring.
taff said:Dont really understand your point. Are you trying to say the entire French nation are racists because of this article.If the article wasnt edited by you the next line says that only a minority are the problem and in the next paragraph that foreign Jews praise the french in dealing with this.
In the states this week wasnt a familly butchered for being Egyptian christians.Obviously the act of a few mindless idiots and i wouldnt dream of accussing the states of being a racist country over this.I guess i need to put my steel helmet on and wait for incoming abuse about being pro french, however i am not pro french im just not so anti french that i want to read about them on every thread. It does get a bit boring.
In the states this week wasnt a familly butchered for being Egyptian christians.Obviously the act of a few mindless idiots and i wouldnt dream of accussing the states of being a racist country over this.
taff said:I know it must obviously have been muslims who commited this crime and i only used it as an example of how you cant brand a nation by individuals actions.Why would i be queasy about saying it was muslims.
America is not looking to collect favors. It wants allies that have the strength and determination of their belief in freedom and democracy. The French preferred to leave a mass murderer in power in Iraq. They preferred Iraq-Elf business transactions over destroying Hussein. Americans remember that the French actively worked against US efforts to get the war sanctioned by the UNSC. That was the work of an American enemy. It is French foreign policy that is boring, not the threads on this board. You need to study the history of anti-Semitism in France. It is a history of behavior far more hostile and deadly than crimes recently perpetrated by French Muslims.taff said:a lot of countrys owe the US a lot of favours yet in your hour of need they sit on the fence or on the other side of the fence completly.We need to get these countrys on our side of the fence pretty quick though because we need the manpower they can supply.
Your rejoinder is..."so what?" Thoughtful. Dominique de Villepin mobilizing world opinion against the US and threatening a UNSC veto does not qualify France as an enemy of America? What does? Actually shooting at us? The sale of French weapons to Iraq? Does that qualify? French foreign policy certainly does make France a political enemy of America. If you do not understand that anti-Semitism is deeply rooted in French history, then you need to do some reading, or speak to the living relatives of the 100,000 Jews that the French shipped to Nazi death camps during WW2.taff said:So the French voted against the US in a UNSC vote.So what.Thats their right as a voter. It doesnt make them an enemy.I dont agree with them myself but i dont hate them for it. You live in a democracy yourself so you understand all about voting , right.
I also didnt realise that anti-semitism was a french thing either.
onedomino said:Your rejoinder is..."so what?" Thoughtful. Dominique de Villepin mobilizing world opinion against the US and threatening a UNSC veto does not qualify France as an enemy of America? What does? Actually shooting at us? The sale of French weapons to Iraq? Does that qualify? French foreign policy certainly does make France a political enemy of America. If you do not understand that anti-Semitism is deeply rooted in French history, then you need to do some reading, or speak to the living relatives of the 100,000 Jews that the French shipped to Nazi death camps during WW2.
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The idea here is that the REASON France voted as they did was to undermine the US. The vote in and of itself and the process involved in exercising that vote is not in question.taff said:I dont understand your logic. Agree with them or not , it was a vote. What your saying is vote USA or be branded an enemy.Thats silly.
Kathianne said:I consider the French if not an enemy, certainly not an ally. While the work of police agencies re terror seems to be working fine, there are ample reasons to keep our foreign policy considerations and intel away from them. Threats to anywhere in Europe should be shared, ditto in return. Our take on other countries, regimes, plans, NO WAY.
Not sure if you were addressing onedomino or me, but either are far from silly. Actually, France gives every appearance of being an enemy. Doesn't matter if they are right or wrong, so yes, their vote counts and should be taken seriously. I do.taff said:I dont understand your logic. Agree with them or not , it was a vote. What your saying is vote USA or be branded an enemy.Thats silly.
taff said:Y Ddraig Goch ddyry gychwyn
taff said:I dont understand your logic. Agree with them or not , it was a vote. What your saying is vote USA or be branded an enemy.Thats silly.
