Oh my God...Another Tipping Point! Ahhhhh!

http://web.archive.org/web/20070607101209/http://www.amnh.org/museum/press/feature/biofact.html

NATIONAL SURVEY REVEALS BIODIVERSITY CRISIS - SCIENTIFIC EXPERTS BELIEVE WE ARE IN MIDST OF FASTEST MASS EXTINCTION IN EARTH'S HISTORY
Crisis Poses Major Threat to Human Survival; Public Unaware of Danger
WHAT:
The American Museum of Natural History and Louis Harris and Associates, Inc., in conjunction with the opening of the Museum's new Hall of Biodiversity, developed a nationwide survey titled Biodiversity in the Next Millennium. The survey reveals a startling gap in understanding between the scientific community and the general public concerning a current crisis in sustaining "biodiversity" - the variety and interdependence of the Earth's plants and animals.

HIGHLIGHTS:

Seven out of ten biologists believe that we are in the midst of a mass extinction of living things, and that this dramatic loss of species poses a major threat to human existence in the next century.

In strong contrast to the fears expressed by scientists, the general public is relatively unaware of the loss of species and the threats that it poses.

This mass extinction is the fastest in Earth's 4.5-billion-year history and, unlike prior extinctions, is mainly the result of human activity and not of natural phenomena

Any species that can't adapt to a 150PPM increase in CO2 over 150 years is just not worth saving.
 
Holocene extinction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

regardless of whether you trust the source or the data the age of man is clearly hugely destructive to species and their habitat and cannot be dismissed based on insufficient data.

My own direct real world experience in the commercial fishing industry proved to myself that we can drive any species toward the limits of extinction within a few years or a decade if we sufficiently lust after their flesh.

The population of AK King crabs declined by 80% within a few short years once technological advances in harvest surpassed the species ability to reproduce.

Numerous species in the Aleutians had already been driven toward the boundary of extinction in the previous 130 years even with relatively archaic technologies.

The "boundary of extinction." Yeah we all know what that is, it means a thriving species that some study shows might be threatened based on limited data. Alligators were supposedly going to disappear. There are 10 of them right out there off my dock right now, which is a huge increase from 20 years ago.

I've seen the data collection methods of these advocates and advocate scientists who have no formal training in statistics. Let's just say they are lacking.

We do water quality studies here, and the methods used to process the data are done by advocates, not scientists. The processes for measuring the data asked are antiquated and more accurate methods are shunned because "we haven't adjusted to new technology." I had one scientist outright tell me that the whole program of measuring water quality was under constant threat unless they demonstrated the need to have it, so I should ignore unexpected good quality measurements.

"We know the quality is declining and we need your help to stop it."

if your purpose is to install yourself in a position of denial then nobody can free you from your own trap.

You are still an idiot and wrong.

See? This is what happens when you can't prove your case.
 
Normally I like Harrison Ford quite a bit. However, it seems he has fallen for the new "bad thing" designed to take the peoples money away from them now that globalwarmingclimatechangeglobalclimatedisruption doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

Earth is 'at a tipping point', warns Harrison Ford

The loss of biodiversity is the next BIG THING. Even though we just classified something like 18,000 new species last year.

Do you doubt that the rate of extinction of species is high?

Seriously?
 
Normally I like Harrison Ford quite a bit. However, it seems he has fallen for the new "bad thing" designed to take the peoples money away from them now that globalwarmingclimatechangeglobalclimatedisruption doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

Earth is 'at a tipping point', warns Harrison Ford

The loss of biodiversity is the next BIG THING. Even though we just classified something like 18,000 new species last year.

It would be something, if there were 18,000 new species last year, but they've always been there. Ford was talking about the ones we're losing. The fact that we found some previously undiscovered, doesn't mean a thing with regard to the total. The net is still a decrease. Any wonder the skeptics don't get much respect. Here we have someone who either doesn't realize that the 18,000 classified ISN'T a gain or does and is just trying to cloud the issue. :eusa_hand:

How do we know that the net is a decrease if we don't know the total? Also, how do we know that they newly discovered species have always been there? Always? Isn't that contradicting evolution?

I would guess we can find them faster than they evolve, so NO I don't think this is anything but a net decrease.
 
Asterism sez:
Alligators were supposedly going to disappear. There are 10 of them right out there off my dock right now, which is a huge increase from 20 years ago.

But that doesn't have anything to do with the environmental factors Ford's talking about. Alligators were going extinct because of over hunting. That goes to another part of the story, but not to "tipping points" in the environmental/climatic sense.
 
The "boundary of extinction." Yeah we all know what that is, it means a thriving species that some study shows might be threatened based on limited data. Alligators were supposedly going to disappear. There are 10 of them right out there off my dock right now, which is a huge increase from 20 years ago.

I've seen the data collection methods of these advocates and advocate scientists who have no formal training in statistics. Let's just say they are lacking.

We do water quality studies here, and the methods used to process the data are done by advocates, not scientists. The processes for measuring the data asked are antiquated and more accurate methods are shunned because "we haven't adjusted to new technology." I had one scientist outright tell me that the whole program of measuring water quality was under constant threat unless they demonstrated the need to have it, so I should ignore unexpected good quality measurements.

"We know the quality is declining and we need your help to stop it."

if your purpose is to install yourself in a position of denial then nobody can free you from your own trap.

You are still an idiot and wrong.

See? This is what happens when you can't prove your case.

Look dumbshit, You don't accept the results of studies and yet you still expect people to prove their case. Now how can anybody do that for you if you won't accept the results of studies?

If you simply look around the earth a while you will find overwhelming evidence of habitat loss and species declines.

But if you prefer denial to the obvious nobody can help you.
 
Any species that can't adapt to a 150PPM increase in CO2 over 150 years is just not worth saving.

of course. But that isn't the problem. Pollution and habitat loss are the main problem, and in the case of the ocean overfishing. Or if you wish the human population bomb.
 
Normally I like Harrison Ford quite a bit. However, it seems he has fallen for the new "bad thing" designed to take the peoples money away from them now that globalwarmingclimatechangeglobalclimatedisruption doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

Earth is 'at a tipping point', warns Harrison Ford

The loss of biodiversity is the next BIG THING. Even though we just classified something like 18,000 new species last year.

Do you doubt that the rate of extinction of species is high?

Seriously?




18,000 new species got classified last year editec. How many went extinct?
 
if your purpose is to install yourself in a position of denial then nobody can free you from your own trap.

You are still an idiot and wrong.

See? This is what happens when you can't prove your case.

Look dumbshit, You don't accept the results of studies and yet you still expect people to prove their case. Now how can anybody do that for you if you won't accept the results of studies?

If you simply look around the earth a while you will find overwhelming evidence of habitat loss and species declines.

But if you prefer denial to the obvious nobody can help you.




Tell us how many species have gone provable extinct in the last 100 years. I can name quite a few that were killed by mans influence. I can also name a bunch that were saved by man. Can you? Polar bears are supposedly endangered yet if you talk to an inuit they are in more abundant numbers than they can remember. Population counts run by scientists show far more polar bears than counts run by activists. Why is that? Do the polar bears hide from the activists?

Or maybe, just maybe, the activists fiddle with the numbers to show a decline where there is none so they can keep the money rolling in to fund their activities? What do you think?

More importantly....think.
 
Normally I like Harrison Ford quite a bit. However, it seems he has fallen for the new "bad thing" designed to take the peoples money away from them now that globalwarmingclimatechangeglobalclimatedisruption doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

Earth is 'at a tipping point', warns Harrison Ford

The loss of biodiversity is the next BIG THING. Even though we just classified something like 18,000 new species last year.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that we have not even finished knowing what lives on earth yet species are being pushed out of exsistance?
 
Normally I like Harrison Ford quite a bit. However, it seems he has fallen for the new "bad thing" designed to take the peoples money away from them now that globalwarmingclimatechangeglobalclimatedisruption doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

Earth is 'at a tipping point', warns Harrison Ford

The loss of biodiversity is the next BIG THING. Even though we just classified something like 18,000 new species last year.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that we have not even finished knowing what lives on earth yet species are being pushed out of exsistance?




Ahh truthiness puts in a guest appearance. Why is it that whenever the eco nazis want to take our money instead of just presenting a factual report without manipulated data they must resort to attempting to frighten the savages? Oh right...if they report the facts it's ususally not a big deal and no one pays attention. Don't you get it that the majority of these eco scares are purely designed to seperate your money away from you and give it to people who allready have more money then you?
 
Normally I like Harrison Ford quite a bit. However, it seems he has fallen for the new "bad thing" designed to take the peoples money away from them now that globalwarmingclimatechangeglobalclimatedisruption doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

Earth is 'at a tipping point', warns Harrison Ford

The loss of biodiversity is the next BIG THING. Even though we just classified something like 18,000 new species last year.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that we have not even finished knowing what lives on earth yet species are being pushed out of exsistance?




Ahh truthiness puts in a guest appearance. Why is it that whenever the eco nazis want to take our money instead of just presenting a factual report without manipulated data they must resort to attempting to frighten the savages? Oh right...if they report the facts it's ususally not a big deal and no one pays attention. Don't you get it that the majority of these eco scares are purely designed to seperate your money away from you and give it to people who allready have more money then you?

Now you're starting to sound like a lefty-anarchist!!! :eek:
 
Or maybe, just maybe, the activists fiddle with the numbers to show a decline where there is none so they can keep the money rolling in to fund their activities? What do you think?

More importantly....think.

take your own advice. If you are so stupid as to assert that there are no extinctions occurring then you don't deserve consideration.

Flush.

Meanwhile in less than 200 years man has usurped and done long term damage to more than half the earth's surface. Or habitat. We unleash known poisons into the environment with industrial efficiency, monopolize water, change the DNA of crops, and clear cut forests at an astonishing rate.
 
Or maybe, just maybe, the activists fiddle with the numbers to show a decline where there is none so they can keep the money rolling in to fund their activities? What do you think?

More importantly....think.

take your own advice. If you are so stupid as to assert that there are no extinctions occurring then you don't deserve consideration.

Flush.

Meanwhile in less than 200 years man has usurped and done long term damage to more than half the earth's surface. Or habitat. We unleash known poisons into the environment with industrial efficiency, monopolize water, change the DNA of crops, and clear cut forests at an astonishing rate.





The typical juvenile response I see. Here's a little free advise buster...read through a few of my earlier posts and you will quite clearly see that I am all for protection of the environment. I advocate protection of the rainforests and am angered by the continued theft of resources for the "climate modelers" that could actually be used to accomplish something good rather than line the pockets of the fraudsters. I actually clean up hazardous waste contaminated areas and return the area to its original condition. I DO, you don't. I practice what I preach, I have removed more poisons from the environment than should have ever been there but you choose to lecture me about dangers when you post nonsense like spending a leisurly, relaxing time in a 212 degree sauna...right...
 
Why is it so hard for you to understand that we have not even finished knowing what lives on earth yet species are being pushed out of exsistance?




Ahh truthiness puts in a guest appearance. Why is it that whenever the eco nazis want to take our money instead of just presenting a factual report without manipulated data they must resort to attempting to frighten the savages? Oh right...if they report the facts it's ususally not a big deal and no one pays attention. Don't you get it that the majority of these eco scares are purely designed to seperate your money away from you and give it to people who allready have more money then you?

Now you're starting to sound like a lefty-anarchist!!! :eek:




What? You didn't know? I am a rational anarchist konrad old boy. If the world went to hell tomorrow me and mine would do quite well. I'm not so sure about you and your though. But I would like you to have the chance to become as self sufficient as we are...but if you continue your way you'll never have the chance.
 
Or maybe, just maybe, the activists fiddle with the numbers to show a decline where there is none so they can keep the money rolling in to fund their activities? What do you think?

More importantly....think.

take your own advice. If you are so stupid as to assert that there are no extinctions occurring then you don't deserve consideration.

Flush.

Meanwhile in less than 200 years man has usurped and done long term damage to more than half the earth's surface. Or habitat. We unleash known poisons into the environment with industrial efficiency, monopolize water, change the DNA of crops, and clear cut forests at an astonishing rate.





The typical juvenile response I see. Here's a little free advise buster...read through a few of my earlier posts and you will quite clearly see that I am all for protection of the environment. I advocate protection of the rainforests and am angered by the continued theft of resources for the "climate modelers" that could actually be used to accomplish something good rather than line the pockets of the fraudsters. I actually clean up hazardous waste contaminated areas and return the area to its original condition. I DO, you don't. I practice what I preach, I have removed more poisons from the environment than should have ever been there but you choose to lecture me about dangers when you post nonsense like spending a leisurly, relaxing time in a 212 degree sauna...right...

well good for you. But I didn't lecture you about saunas, dickhead. So why the fuck are you arguing if you know we are causing mass extinctions and doing massive damage to the biosphere?
 
take your own advice. If you are so stupid as to assert that there are no extinctions occurring then you don't deserve consideration.

Flush.

Meanwhile in less than 200 years man has usurped and done long term damage to more than half the earth's surface. Or habitat. We unleash known poisons into the environment with industrial efficiency, monopolize water, change the DNA of crops, and clear cut forests at an astonishing rate.





The typical juvenile response I see. Here's a little free advise buster...read through a few of my earlier posts and you will quite clearly see that I am all for protection of the environment. I advocate protection of the rainforests and am angered by the continued theft of resources for the "climate modelers" that could actually be used to accomplish something good rather than line the pockets of the fraudsters. I actually clean up hazardous waste contaminated areas and return the area to its original condition. I DO, you don't. I practice what I preach, I have removed more poisons from the environment than should have ever been there but you choose to lecture me about dangers when you post nonsense like spending a leisurly, relaxing time in a 212 degree sauna...right...

well good for you. But I didn't lecture you about saunas, dickhead. So why the fuck are you arguing if you know we are causing mass extinctions and doing massive damage to the biosphere?




Because you are rude and don't know nearly as much as you think you do. I am quite happy to have a reasoned discussion on any scientific matter with you but leave the name calling and the juvenile behaviour at home. It helps no one, especially you.

To answer your point, the very methodology of their reporting is the same as that which globalwarmingclimatechangeglobalclimatedisruption which means they will once again choose hyperbole over science. That is anathema to me as a scientist. Right now there are an average of three new species of critter discovered in the Amazon rainforest every day.

Prove to me that we are in a extinction event right now. Species come and go as a natural process so when I see some person post a link to some article written by an activist whatever it makes me wonder. The so called "sixth extinction event" is not founded in fact. The people who wrote that pulled a large number out of their rear ends with no science behind it..they simply made it up.

Now THINK about what I wrote.
 
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Normally I like Harrison Ford quite a bit. However, it seems he has fallen for the new "bad thing" designed to take the peoples money away from them now that globalwarmingclimatechangeglobalclimatedisruption doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

Earth is 'at a tipping point', warns Harrison Ford

The loss of biodiversity is the next BIG THING. Even though we just classified something like 18,000 new species last year.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that we have not even finished knowing what lives on earth yet species are being pushed out of exsistance?

Does possessing this knowledge stop Harrison Ford, Al Gore, and John Travolta from fucking up the atmosphere with their private jet aeroplanes? I'm guessing since they still do that they really don't give a fuck what life forms they are pushing out of existance. Right? Right!
 
Asterism sez:
Alligators were supposedly going to disappear. There are 10 of them right out there off my dock right now, which is a huge increase from 20 years ago.

But that doesn't have anything to do with the environmental factors Ford's talking about. Alligators were going extinct because of over hunting. That goes to another part of the story, but not to "tipping points" in the environmental/climatic sense.

We weren't hunting them 20 years ago.
 

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