Of Meat and Myth

Discussion in 'Education' started by Kevin_Kennedy, Jul 23, 2010.

  1. Kevin_Kennedy
    Offline

    Kevin_Kennedy Defend Liberty

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    17,581
    Thanks Received:
    1,577
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Location:
    Ohio
    Ratings:
    +2,015
    Ideas and Consequences: Of Meat and Myth | The Freeman | Ideas On Liberty

    This is a nice refutation of Sinclair's The Jungle, which some on this board like to use as evidence against a truly free market.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  2. konradv
    Offline

    konradv Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    22,541
    Thanks Received:
    2,554
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Location:
    Baltimore
    Ratings:
    +5,660
    Libertarian I take it? The problem I see with the philosophy is that like Marxism, it requires a basic change in human nature to work. People won't work as hard, if they don't see relatively immediate results from their labors under Marxism. Libertarianism with the concept of contracts between individuals being paramount, overlooks the fact that unless the two parties are equals, many times the strong will prey on the weak because their "freedom" to do otherwise is merely a construct that does not match reality.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  3. Bfgrn
    Offline

    Bfgrn Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Messages:
    16,829
    Thanks Received:
    2,480
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +3,060
    Hey Kevin, you may want to educate yourself on CAFO's (Confined animal Feeding Operations)

    Europe rejects meat from the U.S. and Canada.

    Also, the health issues of workers and nearby residents is tragic. The almighty buck too often trumps concern for human beings. You support a flawed philosophy...
     
  4. Ragnar
    Offline

    Ragnar <--- Pic is not me

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2010
    Messages:
    3,271
    Thanks Received:
    800
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    Ratings:
    +843
    The weak have much more to gain from the strong than vice versa. That is reality. If a limited government can protect the weak from force or fraud by the strong, freedom is the best answer. Libertarian's are not anarchist after all, as I'm sure you know.

    Sounds like a book worth looking into IMHO.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  5. Nosmo King
    Offline

    Nosmo King Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    15,988
    Thanks Received:
    3,307
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Location:
    Buckle of the Rust Belt
    Ratings:
    +6,298
    Every time I hear someone rail against federal regulations I think "My God! They want to build more Ford Pintos!". Federal regulations are designed to protect the consumer from unscrupulous companies. If your goal was to bilk as much out of the consumer (wealth, health, safety) then I can understand this drive to dilute protective regulations.

    A goal to bilk the consumer would, eventually, increase a company's profit margin. But the long term consequences would almost certainly dictate massive losses in the resulting law suits. Until one considers that the same folks who hate regulations are calling the protection of the courts either "frivolous lawsuits" or "judicial activism".

    I don't mind paying a few extra dollars for an American made stepladder as I know that ladder is in compliance with federal regulations. Why would I want to risk my neck and the necks of those who borrow that ladder from me just to save a few bucks and buy a Chinese ladder?

    And the same goes for any and all consumer products.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  6. konradv
    Offline

    konradv Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    22,541
    Thanks Received:
    2,554
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Location:
    Baltimore
    Ratings:
    +5,660

    Why would a true libertarian submit to the government interfering with their right to make a contract? You say "fraud". I say "sharp business practice, mind your own business". How would a libertarian government be able to enforce anything when taxes are an anathema? Who's going to pay for the protection you say the weak will get? I'm certainly not going to pay a dime. What are you going to do about it, anyway? Send around "men with guns"?

    I'm play acting here. Those aren't my real feelings. It's just an illustration of how, like Marxism, the devil is in the details. They're both "feel good" messages that don't stand up to close scrutiny. A truly libertarian government would inevitably lead to a new feudalism, IMO.
     
  7. Quantum Windbag
    Offline

    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    58,308
    Thanks Received:
    5,014
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +5,221
    Every time I hear someone expounding in favor of federal regulations I think, "My God, they want to have more raids like this.!"

    Guns Drawn in Raid on Raw Food Store in Venice - LAist

    I bet that for every horror story like the Pinto you can come up with I can come up with one about how regulations are destroying someone's life and livelihood.

    Congressional Ban On Lead In Toys Has Unintended Consequences

    The problem with regulations is they cannot cover everything, and are almost always put in place to prevent something that has already happened, and is no longer a problem. Your example of the Pinto is a perfect example. As a result of that mistake cars were redesigned to make them safer because no company in the world will survive by killing its customers. Word gets around pretty quick when that happens, and people buy something else.

    Another wonderful result is that cars today are less fuel efficient and heavier than they used to be. I used to own a car that easily got 40+ MPG, and that was not an exception to the cars made back then. Sure there were gas guzzlers, but there were efficient cars also. Today a car made by the same company actually get less MPG than I got back then, because federal regulators decided I needed to be protected from those smaller cars.

    You really want to try and argue that regulations are always good? The truth is regulations will never protect us from people who do not care about us, because they just ignore those regulations. All regulations do is protect us from honest mistakes, not dishonest intent. They never will protect us from the latter.
     
  8. Quantum Windbag
    Offline

    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    58,308
    Thanks Received:
    5,014
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +5,221
    Why do some people always confuse libertarians and anarchists? Do you do that on purpose, or are you just stupid?
     
  9. konradv
    Offline

    konradv Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    22,541
    Thanks Received:
    2,554
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Location:
    Baltimore
    Ratings:
    +5,660
    Because that's where it leads. If you have another notion, post it. If you don't, how would anyone know it isn't you that's stupid? I'll ask it, again. Given a truly libertarian government, how would they collect any taxes at all to protect us from the predators?
     
  10. Nosmo King
    Offline

    Nosmo King Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    15,988
    Thanks Received:
    3,307
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Location:
    Buckle of the Rust Belt
    Ratings:
    +6,298
    Using your rationalization here, perhaps we should rethink murder statutes because they do not protect us from murder but only serve to dilute the rights of someone wanting to fire a gun.
     

Share This Page