O'Donnell questions separation of church, state

[GHook93]

"Separation of Church and State" is where exactly in the U.S. Constitution?

Too many leftist won't care that the Doctrine of Separation of Church and State came nearly a century after the ratification of the 1st Amendment in a WELL RULED case Reynolds v US!!!

 

[kwc57]

I think they are a group that simply wants politicians to do what they say they're going to do. On the 'right' that is actually making real steps toward smaller central government and a stricter adherence to the constiution.

Unfortunately it also seems to encompass many of the 'values' of the relgious right. Anti-homosexuality, life begins at conception, christian based legislation. It's this legislating morality where I part ways with the tea partiers and conservatives. They are positions that objectively speaking make no sense and I don't see helping the Republicans expand there control over congress.

REALLY? Please show me where the GOP has attempted to make for a smaller central government and/or stricter adherance to the Constitution? Bush doubled the deficit in his 8 years in office, plus gave out a sweetheart deal to big Pharma also know as MediCare Part D. Where is Medicare Part D in the Constitution?

Why does the left hold Bush as the epitome of conservatism? Everyone know that he isn't....but his name keeps coming up. Bush wan't a true conservative, but the left put up Gore, and Kerry to run against him.....just what did you people think the outcome would be?
Where is the Obama healthcare "requirement" in the Constitution?

Why? Seriously? Because talking head conservative movers and shakers and their "me too" followers defended him to the hilt day in and day out right up until the end. Once he was out of office, they have tried to distance themselves and have thrown him under the bus.

 

[VaYank5150]

REALLY? Please show me where the GOP has attempted to make for a smaller central government and/or stricter adherance to the Constitution? Bush doubled the deficit in his 8 years in office, plus gave out a sweetheart deal to big Pharma also know as MediCare Part D. Where is Medicare Part D in the Constitution?

Why does the left hold Bush as the epitome of conservatism? Everyone know that he isn't....but his name keeps coming up. Bush wan't a true conservative, but the left put up Gore, and Kerry to run against him.....just what did you people think the outcome would be?
Where is the Obama healthcare "requirement" in the Constitution?

Why? Seriously? Because talking head conservative movers and shakers and their "me too" followers defended him to the hilt day in and day out right up until the end. Once he was out of office, they have tried to distance themselves and have thrown him under the bus.

.................only to replace him with new geniuses like Sharron Angle, Rand Paul and Christine O'Donnell.

 

[Sallow]

Factually she is correct. No where in the first amendment does it say the Separation of Church and State!!! NO WHERE in the constitution does it say this.

The concept of the Separation of Church and State came from Case Law based on the preceived legislative intent of the first amendment! Reynolds v US Case, during the middle 1800s establish the WELL ACCEPTED concept of the Separation of Church and State.

While she was factually correct, her tactic was beyond a doubt stupid and I have no doubt that she is far from a constitutional scholar. Not knowing one recent Supreme Court case she disagrees with is outrageous! Nice prep work moron.

She should have stated, "Coon, while the concept, which I support, of the Separation of Church and State, came about via case law interpretation of the Establish Clause of the First Amendment, it is NOT stated in the First Amendment. If you or ANYONE can show me specifically in the first amendment or the CONSTITUTION for that matter, where it says stated SPECIFICALLY word for word Separation of Church and State, then I will drop out of the race! Will you take the same pledge that its in the constitution?"

Remember case law can change! Separate but equal came about after the 13th and 14th amendment in Plesy v. Ferguson. It was the law of the land for over a half century. Case law interpretations of the constitution can change!

Note: I am not saying Separation of Church and State will ever change and I would cry if it ever got changed, but O'Donnell is factually correct.

No she's not.

This whole "exact words" argument is a little silly.

The exact wording is not silly. For nearly century after the constitution was ratified the Separation of Church and State was doctrine of the US!

But be more specific, don't say the First Amendment say the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment! Here is what its says word for word:

Establishment Clause: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".
The Free Exercise Clause "... or prohibiting the free exercise thereof!"

Without Reynolds v. US the Separation of Church and State doctrine might have never occured or worse if the judges had a different view, then Separation of Church and State might have gone the other way.

We so easily take for granted laws of today that could have easily turned the other way.

For example, the dissent in Plesy v. Ferguson the late and great Justice Harlan state the ever true words of, "The law is color blinds!" If he was writting the majority opinion (I think he needed 2 more judges to vote his way, there Separate but Equal would never of occured. Brown v. the Board of Education wouldn't have been necessary.

Don't take for granted case law that could have gone the other way!

Actually..

A very good point.

Thank you.

 

[Cal]

O'Donnell questions separation of church, state - Politics - Decision 2010 - msnbc.com

"Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?" O'Donnell asked him.

When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O'Donnell asked: "You're telling me that's in the First Amendment?"

Her comments, in a debate aired on radio station WDEL, generated a buzz in the audience.

I thought these Tea Party candidates were all about Constitutionalism? WTF???

Christine O'Donnell Questions Separation Of Church & State (VIDEO)

"...Coons said private and parochial schools are free to teach creationism but that "religious doctrine doesn't belong in our public schools."

"Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?" O'Donnell asked him.

When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O'Donnell asked: "You're telling me that's in the First Amendment?"

The video:​

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miwSljJAzqg&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

Lmao! I love how she tried to play it off, when everyone started laughing at her .

The article goes on:

Erin Daly, a Widener professor who specializes in constitutional law, said that while there are questions about what counts as government promotion of religion, there is little debate over whether the First Amendment prohibits the federal government from making laws establishing religion.

"She seemed genuinely surprised that the principle of separation of church and state derives from the First Amendment, and I think to many of us in the law school that was a surprise," Daly said. "It's one thing to not know the 17th Amendment or some of the others, but most Americans do know the basics of the First Amendment."

This, ladies and gents, is the new and improved, knows-the-constitution Republican party. Be proud, Teabaggers!

 

[Ravi]

Where in the constitution does it say black people can marry white people?

You nuts get dumber by the day.

 

[Meister]

REALLY? Please show me where the GOP has attempted to make for a smaller central government and/or stricter adherance to the Constitution? Bush doubled the deficit in his 8 years in office, plus gave out a sweetheart deal to big Pharma also know as MediCare Part D. Where is Medicare Part D in the Constitution?

Why does the left hold Bush as the epitome of conservatism? Everyone know that he isn't....but his name keeps coming up. Bush wan't a true conservative, but the left put up Gore, and Kerry to run against him.....just what did you people think the outcome would be?
Where is the Obama healthcare "requirement" in the Constitution?

Why? Seriously? Because talking head conservative movers and shakers and their "me too" followers defended him to the hilt day in and day out right up until the end. Once he was out of office, they have tried to distance themselves and have thrown him under the bus.

But not the conservatives, they were complaining about Bush when he was in office, and me being one of them.

 

[Revere]

What's scary is a bunch of law school students in the audience who think think the Constitution spells out "separation of church and state."

 

[The T]

O'Donnell questions separation of church, state - Politics - Decision 2010 - msnbc.com

"Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?" O'Donnell asked him.

When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O'Donnell asked: "You're telling me that's in the First Amendment?"

Her comments, in a debate aired on radio station WDEL, generated a buzz in the audience.

I thought these Tea Party candidates were all about Constitutionalism? WTF???

The separation of church and state is a fallacy. Our founding fathers did intend to keep government out of the religious arena by disallowing a national religion such as existed in England with the Church of England; however the intent was never to keep the church out of government.

Few American educated people, it seems, have the ability to critically analyze political spin. Case in point: separation of church and state. The far left has embarked on a massive propaganda campaign to socialize the masses into believing that the above is an absolute. Religion, therefore, and any reference to God should be anathema in politics, leg-islation and enactment of law.

The historical and philosophical facts are quite different however. Our fore fathers never envisioned an absolute separation of church and state. Most of them were religious people. Their model for government was based mostly on separation of powers. In their mind, the church, as an organized entity, should hold no formal position in government. They did not say or imply that the church should have no voice in pronouncing political descent. Nor did they ever envision a government devoid of references to Judeo-Christian theology or idealisms; and they never believed that the government must be completely secular.

Unfortunately, many people believe the liberal left’s machinations without regard to these historical facts. Their argument states that more wars have been fought in the name of religion than of any other source. They cry: ‘the marriage of religion and politic has produced the crusades, Inquisition and the Taliban’ etc. What they fail to mention is the melding of the secular with absolute power. This has produced virulently greater horrors as evidenced in the persons of Stalin (20+ million dead) and Hitler (11+ million). Not to mention the killing fields of Cambodia and other secular genocide committed in the name of a greater social order.

In rebuttal: firstly, the Declaration of Independence itself is a religious document. The preamble states the primary premise from which all of the other premises follow. The premise is: that all people are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. These ‘rights’ are not endowed by the state, nor by any secular entity, be it government or king, but by God. Secondly, the framers of the Constitution wrote the latter and the Bill of Rights etc. because they believed that legislating such documents into law was God’s will. Their very core ethos as Christians made them draw the conclusions written within the documents. You cannot separate these documents from their Judeo-Christian roots without tearing them asunder and laying them waste. Simply, the ethics contained in our Constitution are Judeo-Christian. Therefore our constitution is essentially a religious document. Thus, separation of church and state as the far left sees it is complete fallacy.

Lastly, it is neither religion nor people of faith who have produced the horrors mention above. It is an evil that knows no boundaries. It has transcended all times, peoples and cultures whether secular or religious. In the Christian gospels Jesus vehemently condemned one sin in particular above all others. The reason is that this sin has the potential of producing the greatest amount of evil. It is none other than the greatest of the seven deadly sins: humanities tendency toward self-righteous pride. Hitler, Stalin, Usama Bin Laden, all of these have been inebriated by this great sin. So absolute is its power to blind that one, when caught in its grip, could conceive genocide as justifiable - even when done in the name of God.
Separation of Church and State: the leftist fallacy exposed. - Tech Support Forums - TechIMO.com

All the First Amendment says is that Government cannot establish a national Religion.

PERIOD.

The Constitution does NOT prohibit GOD anywhere in our Society, and that includes Government instituions.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Show me an example of ANYONE arguing that churches cannot be involved in politics.

If you would pull your head out of your ass you would have noticed that the argument has been going on for years. The fight against prayer in school, the fight against nativity scenes on display and so on and so forth. Liberals have been trying for decades to completely eliminate religious issues from public view including politics.

Those are all examples of Government advocating for a religion. That's a problem.

No one is saying that people can't have places of worship, put up nativity scenes on private property or pray at home. And churches can advocate for Candidates they want to see elected. Or not..up to them.

The government does not advocate placing nativity scenes on the lawns of courthouses you idiot, and the government does not advocate prayer in school. Wise up!

Fact is dunderhead, if the citizens choose to place a nativity scene on public property they should have every right to do so and it should be protected under the first amendent which says that we are granted the freedom to exercise our religion. But idiot liberal judges are too fucking stupid to understand that concept. I'm sure you can relate to those idiots very well.

 

[Meister]

Why does the left hold Bush as the epitome of conservatism? Everyone know that he isn't....but his name keeps coming up. Bush wan't a true conservative, but the left put up Gore, and Kerry to run against him.....just what did you people think the outcome would be?
Where is the Obama healthcare "requirement" in the Constitution?

Why? Seriously? Because talking head conservative movers and shakers and their "me too" followers defended him to the hilt day in and day out right up until the end. Once he was out of office, they have tried to distance themselves and have thrown him under the bus.

.................only to replace him with new geniuses like Sharron Angle, Rand Paul and Christine O'Donnell.

Like Obama is a genius, right? I laugh how you people slam the right, yet the bozo's you have put in place like Gore, and Kerry, Reid, Pelosi, Boxer, Franks, etc. are highly qualified, right? Give me a friggin break.

 

[Ravi]

All the First Amendment says is that Government cannot establish a national Religion.

PERIOD.

The Constitution does NOT prohibit GOD anywhere in our Society, and that includes Government instituions.

Really? Does that mean you are okay with sharia law being established in government institutions?

 

[Revere]

Sharia law pertains to civil and criminal matters which are inconsistent with American due process, not alternate stories to evolution.

 

[Meister]

All the First Amendment says is that Government cannot establish a national Religion.

PERIOD.

The Constitution does NOT prohibit GOD anywhere in our Society, and that includes Government instituions.

Really? Does that mean you are okay with sharia law being established in government institutions?

Wouldn't that be religion dictating policy to the government? I do see a difference
What your saying is like the Catholic religion could make it a crime if a person used contraception

 

[Lonestar_logic]

All the First Amendment says is that Government cannot establish a national Religion.

PERIOD.

The Constitution does NOT prohibit GOD anywhere in our Society, and that includes Government instituions.

Really? Does that mean you are okay with sharia law being established in government institutions?

Hey stupid, what part of the "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion " do you not understand?

 

[Ravi]

All the First Amendment says is that Government cannot establish a national Religion.

PERIOD.

The Constitution does NOT prohibit GOD anywhere in our Society, and that includes Government instituions.

Really? Does that mean you are okay with sharia law being established in government institutions?

Wouldn't that be religion dictating policy to the government? I do see a difference
What your saying is like the Catholic religion could make it a crime if a person used contaception

I don't know if they'd make it a crime...but certainly both Christians and Muslims would have no problem making gay marriage a crime. Or abortion.

What is the difference when you get right down to it? No religion should be allowed to make laws based on their morality.

 

[Revere]

Is perjury, theft, and killing another human "immoral?"

 

[bodecea]

O'Donnell questions separation of church, state - Politics - Decision 2010 - msnbc.com

"Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?" O'Donnell asked him.

When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O'Donnell asked: "You're telling me that's in the First Amendment?"

Her comments, in a debate aired on radio station WDEL, generated a buzz in the audience.

I thought these Tea Party candidates were all about Constitutionalism? WTF???

Rush is trying very, very, very hard to cover for her.

 

[Jack Fate]

O'Donnell is correct. There is no specific "Separation of church and state" like there is in the Communist Manifesto. It's really simpe. It takes a moonbat lefty to confuse what it really says.

Congress cannot pass a law that makes a "state religion". Like Iran for example. It's the most abused clause in the Constitution. It has been used to keep Christian symbols out of society, which is not the intent of the clause. It's disgusting how our nation has allowed these fuckwits to rewrite the Constitution.

 

[bodecea]

her tea bag supporters are almost as comicle as she is.

And you're still stupid, as usual.

That's right. You're the smart one in TX.